Biofuel and Human Consumption, Using plants to replace petroleum? Options

[Inferia]

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I feel like I've been reading about biofuels a lot lately. There's been riots left and right over rise in food prices, and other countries are trying to subsititize their farmers to keep food prices down. Oil fuel is on the rise, and so are most produce. I don't know how much of this is a result of food for fuel, or because of rise in oil prices, the fall of the dollar or the rise of a new middle class in developing countries. I feel like using biofuels is not the way to go, the use of food for fuel will raise the prices of all foods. It will not make you want to useless, you're using essentially the same amount of stuff, or even the reverse may happen - when stuff is cheaper or deemed "more environmentally friendly" people may feel comfortable using more of it. They say sustainability relies on reduce, reuse, and recycle. I feel like the most important part of the equation is reduce. I remember a few years back when I was in China, I looked around and saw that pretty much everyone around me was looking for that "middle class". That's 1.2 billion people, and if we throw India in there, we're looking at 2.5 billion people looking to have a car, a house, more clothes, more space, more lifestyle. This really scares me. The US has pretty much been the leader in the "look at us, we're middle class" competition. As much as many countries dislike the US, they do want to achieve that US "middle class". Subsequently, I feel like that will be the biggest issue this millennium. On the other hand, I understand the comforts of the middle class. I feel awkward saying to someone that I can live in I guess middle class luxury, but you can't have it because we want to save the planet. I just feel like we can't use as much as we do.

By the way, I feel like this thread doesn't have to turn into a "climate change thread", we can try to stay on the topic of sustainability (which is slightly different).

[Hartmann]

I've been for biofuels in the past because I figured the companies producing them would use a crop that wasn't mass consumed by the population. However, countries all over the world have made the move to use corn, wheat, palm, etc. which in my opinion does nothing to help and more to hinder.

I completely agree with your assessment of the "middle" class and that's the goal a majority of the world's population wants to reach. All people have to do is spend a week in Delhi or Kuala Lumpur to understand the problem we face.

Reduction is a great goal but one that I think is unreachable. There are plenty of people who will gladly reduce (myself included) but the fact that our psyche is being driven by the notion of more stuff makes us more important and better does not help.

It's easy to live simply yet comfortably, it just isn't popular. The notion of "this is our only life and we should spend, spend, spend" is the force that keeps people purchasing.

[impala454]

It's easy to live simply yet comfortably, it just isn't popular.

Define "comfortably" or "simply". Oh that's right, it's impossible.

[Hartmann]

Define "comfortably" or "simply". Oh that's right, it's impossible.

No, comfortably is not hard to define. It's the degradation of the word and twisting of it that makes it hard.

Is it comfortable to take a trip in first class? Yes. Can I comfortably take a trip in coach? Yes.

So it comes down to want vs. need. The mentality has become one of wants that get disguised as needs.

[impala454]

Is it comfortable to take a trip in first class? Yes. Can I comfortably take a trip in coach? Yes.

Can you comfortably take a bus? Can you comfortably not go at all? See, that's where the term really grays out.

So it comes down to want vs. need. The mentality has become one of wants that get disguised as needs.

But that's just it. Some people's wants are other people's needs. Some people's needs are other people's wants. Some people's wants are other people's bare necessities.

Trying to define some kind of universal standard of living is both futile and pointless.