Is this reasonable? Options

[pebkac]

So as I posted before, I'm taking Desrosiers for CS 1412. He's a dick.

Each week in lab we have a quiz. And the questions are usually either based on sheer memorization and usually pretty stupid. Last time in lab, the question was to write a program in PEN AND PAPER to use a SortedList (a generic class in C#) to do some stuff. No access to the book or MSDN either. He didn't cover it in lecture, it isn't in the assigned reading, but it was in a set of code samples he gave us (among 10 other samples). When the TA passed the quiz around, I saw a look of puzzlement amongst my fellow students. Apparently, I wasn't the only one who had no clue what to do here. In fact, literally half the lab cheated and looked things up on MSDN while the TA wasn't looking. I didn't, but I don't really blame the students that did.

Each week, the quiz is something more ridiculous than the one before it. And every time the quiz grades come back terrible, he blames us and tells us we need to read more.

Does anyone have any advice for me here? I could talk to Desrosiers, but I honestly don't know that it would do any good. Has anyone had much luck going over their professor's head and talking to the dept chair or anything of that nature?

[Mommy]

Unless you are seeking what Blue said, college in general is the biggest waste of fucking money ever. You pay $30,000+ to put that you have a degree on your resume.

On a side note, Blue, I thought the Philosophy Dept. at Tech was on nationally recognized on the graduate level?

[impala454]

Unless you are seeking what Blue said, college in general is the biggest waste of fucking money ever. You pay $30,000+ to put that you have a degree on your resume.

You've gotta be kidding me. Are you telling me you think someone without a degree can go up against someone with one and get hired? We've got salesmen here with "bullshit" degrees like general business or economics or whatever, who pull in six figures easily. Granted not all business majors get jobs like that, but I know guys with business degrees who are making mid 40s two years out of school. Not to mention school loan interest rates are laughably low.

I'm not saying you can't make money without a degree, but it helps a ton, and saying that college in general is a waste of money is just downright stupid. Sure, it's a waste of money if you exit college and don't go get a job.

[Mommy]

You've gotta be kidding me. Are you telling me you think someone without a degree can go up against someone with one and get hired? We've got salesmen here with "bullshit" degrees like general business or economics or whatever, who pull in six figures easily. Granted not all business majors get jobs like that, but I know guys with business degrees who are making mid 40s two years out of school. Not to mention school loan interest rates are laughably low.

I'm not saying you can't make money without a degree, but it helps a ton, and saying that college in general is a waste of money is just downright stupid. Sure, it's a waste of money if you exit college and don't go get a job.

again, you're not understanding what Im saying. I never said that degree vs no degree. I said a degree is a waste of money except to write it on a resume. I dont think that anyone in a public state university is challenged to their full potential when 1) the state makes you learn shit you should have learned in high school and 2) there is a severe lacking i real world trainging. Major classes are too theoretical and not enough hands on. Thats just MY OPINION. Im not asking you to agree. Neither does it mean that I skated the program (like Blue has been assuming) so I didnt get the "full affect of college"...whatever that means

[impala454]

again, you're not understanding what Im saying. I never said that degree vs no degree. I said a degree is a waste of money except to write it on a resume. I dont think that anyone in a public state university is challenged to their full potential when 1) the state makes you learn shit you should have learned in high school and 2) there is a severe lacking i real world trainging. Major classes are too theoretical and not enough hands on. Thats just MY OPINION. Im not asking you to agree. Neither does it mean that I skated the program (like Blue has been assuming) so I didnt get the "full affect of college"...whatever that means

I dunno how I'm misunderstanding "college in general is the biggest fucking waste of money ever". You put the disclaimer "unless you're getting what blue said" which he said specific "sciences fields or corporate law."

[Mommy]

I dunno how I'm misunderstanding "college is the biggest fucking waste of money ever". You put the disclaimer "unless you're getting what blue said" which he said specific "sciences fields or corporate law."

Ok...seriously. You need to take some logic courses. I'm not meaning that in a mean way either. I just don't think you can think on a level that others can. You read things way too literally and you never read past that.

Let me explain

College is a waste of money because most fields require graduate work and beyond to fair well in salary... The obvious exceptions to that would be computer science, engineering, and possibly architecture. Oh and nursing. Therefore, in essence, most of us spent tens of thousands of dollars to take 90 hours of stuff we should have learned in high school (which is free) and only 30 hours of stuff that actually pertains to what we want to do. That's $1000 per course for our "future".... Now, if one were to major in lets just say...psychology. The average psychology major coming out of school makes less than $26,000 a year. That's horse shit. Now, is that degree a stepping stone? Yes. But it shouldn't be like that. We shouldn't have to pay $30,000 for a stepping stone to other things we are going to have to pay even more for (grad school) or low salaries we are going to have to settle for (something to write on your resume for an entry-level job that had high schools done their jobs we would have been able to do coming out of high school).

[impala454]

Ok...seriously. You need to take some logic courses. I'm not meaning that in a mean way either. I just don't think you can think on a level that others can. You read things way too literally and you never read past that.

Please everyone dispense with these stupid bullshit comments. "you need to learn to read" "you need to learn logic". You made a statement, "in general college is a fucking waste of money" with the exception blue mentioned about science fields. there is absolutely nothing figurative about that statement. there's no implications, other than college is a fucking waste of money. don't back out of what you said, or come back on me and act like I'm stupid or some shit and that I don't understand what you said. all you have to do is further extend your comments and admit that what you said about college being worthless is dumb, or in the least, incomplete as far as what you failed to communicate. insulting my intelligence doesn't make your comment make any more sense. Nor does any "logics course" in existence (if those even exist). maybe read your own shit and think about it before you hit the submit button.

Let me explain

College is a waste of money because most fields require graduate work and beyond to fair well in salary... The obvious exceptions to that would be computer science, engineering, and possibly architecture.

This is completely subjective and depends on what your definition of a good salary is. Like I said before, I know several people who make well into the 40s, 2-3 years out of school, with bachelors business degrees. IMHO this is a good salary. Sure, they started off at $26-28k, but you gotta prove your worth before you get paid. In ALL fields. Your definition of what a good salary may differ I dunno.

Therefore, in essence, most of us spent tens of thousands of dollars to take 90 hours of stuff we should have learned in high school

I agree with you here, but it doesn't = college being worthless. I think there's something to be said for taking some of those classes. 90 hours though? Naw... I think I had about 24 or so at most. Two english, two history, one govt, and 2-3 others.

(which is free)

You'll find out as soon as you buy a house just how "free" public schools are.

and only 30 hours of stuff that actually pertains to what we want to do.

This isn't anywhere near right either. 30 hours is how much you need for something like a minor.

That's $1000 per course for our "future".... Now, if one were to major in lets just say...psychology. The average psychology major coming out of school makes less than $26,000 a year. That's horse shit.

Why is it horse shit? What should a psychology major be paid coming out of school? $40k? $50k? $100k? What job would you do to earn that much money? I am the owner of a ________ company, tell me why I should pay you $X right out of college with a psychology degree.

Now, is that degree a stepping stone? Yes. But it shouldn't be like that. We shouldn't have to pay $30,000 for a stepping stone to other things we are going to have to pay even more for (grad school) or low salaries we are going to have to settle for (something to write on your resume for an entry-level job that had high schools done their jobs we would have been able to do coming out of high school).

Oh, so now it really comes out. You're just pissy that you didnt make booku cash right out of school, so it must be the college in general's fault, not yours. This really should be moved to the "Pussification of America" thread. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are very few degrees where this happens (even in engineering, just on a lesser scale). If you sit down, shut up, take your low paying job right of school, and make something of yourself, you will end up making much more, and the $30k you borrowed from the govt at 3% interest will end up being the best investment you ever made. ALL degrees are stepping stones/door openers/etc, not the end all be all of your career. Hell, after your first couple years, nobody gives a shit what degree you got or where it was from. All they care about from that point on is your experience.

[Mommy]

Please everyone dispense with these stupid bullshit comments. "you need to learn to read" "you need to learn logic". You made a statement, "in general college is a fucking waste of money" with the exception blue mentioned about science fields. there is absolutely nothing figurative about that statement. there's no implications, other than college is a fucking waste of money. don't back out of what you said, or come back on me and act like I'm stupid or some shit and that I don't understand what you said. all you have to do is further extend your comments and admit that what you said about college being worthless is dumb, or in the least, incomplete as far as what you failed to communicate. insulting my intelligence doesn't make your comment make any more sense. Nor does any "logics course" in existence (if those even exist). maybe read your own shit and think about it before you hit the submit button.

logic courses do exist. I didn't back out of my statement. I stand by it. Undergrad is a waste of money

This is completely subjective and depends on what your definition of a good salary is. Like I said before, I know several people who make well into the 40s, 2-3 years out of school, with bachelors business degrees. IMHO this is a good salary. Sure, they started off at $26-28k, but you gotta prove your worth before you get paid. In ALL fields. Your definition of what a good salary may differ I dunno.

business can yield some good earnings. Most accounting majors have to have a master's though. It just depends on what kind of business you want to go into.

I agree with you here, but it doesn't = college being worthless. I think there's something to be said for taking some of those classes. 90 hours though? Naw... I think I had about 24 or so at most. Two english, two history, one govt, and 2-3 others.

The standard is 30 hours for a bachelors in arts and sciences majors...maybe 36 at max. You have to have 120 hours for those majors to graduate. The 90 hours consist of English, history, science, physical fitness, multicultural studies, foreign language, etc. I know it's different for engineering because you aren't required to take foreign language studies, but there are still at least 60 hours outside of math and your major that you have to take.

You'll find out as soon as you buy a house just how "free" public schools are.

I'm fully aware of how the school system acquires funding, thank you. Not everyone is a homeowner, though

This isn't anywhere near right either. 30 hours is how much you need for something like a minor.

Wrong... but I did forgot about minors. Minors are 18 hours (at least in arts and sciences)... subtract 18 from 90 hours... still a lot of BS

Why is it horse shit? What should a psychology major be paid coming out of school? $40k? $50k? $100k? What job would you do to earn that much money? I am the owner of a ________ company, tell me why I should pay you $X right out of college with a psychology degree.

because most people going into college are 18-19 years old and don't know that they are picking a degree that will get them no more pay than before they went to school. They aren't told that they will need a phd in that field to make money. They just think "ooo I get to pick apart people's minds"... We need to inform these people what the real world past college is like.

Oh, so now it really comes out. You're just pissy that you didnt make booku cash right out of school, so it must be the college in general's fault, not yours. This really should be moved to the "Pussification of America" thread. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are very few degrees where this happens (even in engineering, just on a lesser scale). If you sit down, shut up, take your low paying job right of school, and make something of yourself, you will end up making much more, and the $30k you borrowed from the govt at 3% interest will end up being the best investment you ever made. ALL degrees are stepping stones/door openers/etc, not the end all be all of your career. Hell, after your first couple years, nobody gives a shit what degree you got or where it was from. All they care about from that point on is your experience.

Ok, you don't know where I have worked and what I have done so quit talking like you know me. First off, I don't care about money like that. I just think its BS how much money we pay for very little having to do with our major. I'm not pissy that I don't have a job right now (need I remind you that Im pregnant and in school so a job on top of that would be a lot for me). Im not worried about the job market when I graduate. I will find what I an and work my way up just like everyone else (even those without degrees mind you.) I'm pissy that it cost me the exhorbitant amount of money that it did to acquire 2 bachelor degrees in four years.

my minor was 21 hrs

your minor was probably more because one of your classes required for it needed a pre-req

[impala454]

I didn't back out of my statement. I stand by it. Undergrad is a waste of money

That wasn't your statement. Your statement was that college is a waste of money. But yeah you're right, a one time investment of government money at an infanitessimal interest rate that starts out making you at least $25-30k/yr, increasing in return for the next 40 years is a waste of money. .

Most accounting majors have to have a master's though.

Is catherine sitting at your computer? What ass did you pull this idea out of?

The standard is 30 hours for a bachelors in arts and sciences majors...maybe 36 at max. You have to have 120 hours for those majors to graduate. The 90 hours consist of English, history, science, physical fitness, multicultural studies, foreign language, etc. I know it's different for engineering because you aren't required to take foreign language studies, but there are still at least 60 hours outside of math and your major that you have to take.

There is not a single degree plan in that catalog where you take 90 hrs of bullshit. Find it for me and show me the degree plan if you think this is true. No, not all of your classes will say:
CS 1234
CS 1235
CS 1236
But just because it doesnt say that doesn't mean that class doesn't pertain to your major, or a well rounded education in general. Most lay people wouldn't think physics has much to do with computer science. Well they'd be wrong. No need to go into why because it's beyond the scope of this thread.

I'm fully aware of how the school system acquires funding, thank you.

Then why would you assume public schools are "free"?

Not everyone is a homeowner, though

Unless you're living in a cardboard box, way out in the sticks, or are a senior citizen, you're living under the roof of someone who pays school taxes.

Wrong... but I did forgot about minors. Minors are 18 hours (at least in arts and sciences)...

You got me there.

subtract 18 from 90 hours... still a lot of BS

This would really depend on the major. If you have some kind of general Arts & Sciences degree, sure you might have a lot of extra general BS... it's a generalized degree. But just because I have 55 hours of "official" CS courses does not mean that 120 - 55 = 65 hrs of BS. Tons of non-CS courses which had very close ties to my major were taken.

because most people going into college are 18-19 years old and don't know that they are picking a degree that will get them no more pay than before they went to school. They aren't told that they will need a phd in that field to make money. They just think "ooo I get to pick apart people's minds"... We need to inform these people what the real world past college is like.

This is very true, and indicative of help needed at the high school & entry level college counselor level. Not to mention the BS that instructors often feed students of how much they should make upon graduation. Perceptions of making lots of money though, do not make college a waste of money.

Ok, you don't know where I have worked and what I have done so quit talking like you know me.

I didn't claim to know you, all I'm doing is reading what you have to say. If you had started off somewhere making good money you wouldn't have bitched about it two sentences above.

First off, I don't care about money like that.

If you don't, why are we having this conversation? Three sentences above you're complaining about your bachelors in psychology not making any money right out of school.

I just think its BS how much money we pay for very little having to do with our major. I'm not pissy that I don't have a job right now (need I remind you that Im pregnant and in school so a job on top of that would be a lot for me). Im not worried about the job market when I graduate. I will find what I an and work my way up just like everyone else (even those without degrees mind you.) I'm pissy that it cost me the exhorbitant amount of money that it did to acquire 2 bachelor degrees in four years.

Well how much should college cost?

your minor was probably more because one of your classes required for it needed a pre-req

Naw you were correct. It was 18 hrs. Most CS will get the math minor because we already have to take 15 hrs of math, so one extra class gets us an "easy" minor.

exactly... I said for engineering it was over 60 hours of BS... that's 68 hours right there. Tech and applied sciences has always been a requirement. You may just not have noticed because you were CS and your classes applied towards that. So i guess 65 hours of BS for you. Arts and sciences need a minimum of 11 hours of foreign language also. Most have to take 12 or more though

This a very wrong assumption. You really need to look at the actual course requirements for each major before you assume that a course is a "BS" course. See the 3rd quote above. Also, while I may have mis-remembered the Tech & AS requirement, I'm not exactly sure how you knew the ins and outs of the requirements of my degree plan from 1998. You were in jr high or something at the time.

whew... a double post quote (note the times, eh, eh? )... nice way to finish off the short week

[Mommy]

That wasn't your statement. Your statement was that college is a waste of money. But yeah you're right, a one time investment of government money at an infanitessimal interest rate that starts out making you at least $25-30k/yr, increasing in return for the next 40 years is a waste of money. .


Is catherine sitting at your computer? What ass did you pull this idea out of?


There is not a single degree plan in that catalog where you take 90 hrs of bullshit. Find it for me and show me the degree plan if you think this is true. No, not all of your classes will say:
CS 1234
CS 1235
CS 1236
But just because it doesnt say that doesn't mean that class doesn't pertain to your major, or a well rounded education in general. Most lay people wouldn't think physics has much to do with computer science. Well they'd be wrong. No need to go into why because it's beyond the scope of this thread.


Then why would you assume public schools are "free"?


Unless you're living in a cardboard box, way out in the sticks, or are a senior citizen, you're living under the roof of someone who pays school taxes.


You got me there.


This would really depend on the major. If you have some kind of general Arts & Sciences degree, sure you might have a lot of extra general BS... it's a generalized degree. But just because I have 55 hours of "official" CS courses does not mean that 120 - 55 = 65 hrs of BS. Tons of non-CS courses which had very close ties to my major were taken.


This is very true, and indicative of help needed at the high school & entry level college counselor level. Not to mention the BS that instructors often feed students of how much they should make upon graduation. Perceptions of making lots of money though, do not make college a waste of money.


I didn't claim to know you, all I'm doing is reading what you have to say. If you had started off somewhere making good money you wouldn't have bitched about it two sentences above.


If you don't, why are we having this conversation? Three sentences above you're complaining about your bachelors in psychology not making any money right out of school.


Well how much should college cost?


Naw you were correct. It was 18 hrs. Most CS will get the math minor because we already have to take 15 hrs of math, so one extra class gets us an "easy" minor.


This a very wrong assumption. You really need to look at the actual course requirements for each major before you assume that a course is a "BS" course. See the 3rd quote above. Also, while I may have mis-remembered the Tech & AS requirement, I'm not exactly sure how you knew the ins and outs of the requirements of my degree plan from 1998. You were in jr high or something at the time.

whew... a double post quote (note the times, eh, eh? )... nice way to finish off the short week

I cant keep up with your quoting. you win because it takes me to long to break down yours. haha