Awww... poor republicans Options

[pebkac]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/...-gop-stage.html

Wow... the democrats finally stand up to the republicans and now they're acting like children.

[rabble]

oh god, you're totally right!

Hay guys don't get on the/enter the (insert anything ever) because it isn't safe. I hope you get arrested for voicing your opinion one day because that's where you're heading. If you actually bothered to read anything, the sunset provisions on domestic spying don't enact for six more months. But you're right, the govt should be able to enter my house without a reason and tear eveything apart because they have to protect me from the unknown threat, because that's also where you are headed.

I drew the line at domestic spying, where do you draw yours?

Additionally, I don't have a tinfoil hat on and I know they don't care about me. That's not the point, I don't even want them to have the option...ever...that's the point.

Dumbass

[impala454]

oh god, you're totally right!

Hay guys don't get on the/enter the (insert anything ever) because it isn't safe. I hope you get arrested for voicing your opinion one day because that's where you're heading.

Haha ok... ability to investigate possible terrorists threat = having freedom of speech revoked. And you're calling me paranoid?

If you actually bothered to read anything, the sunset provisions on domestic spying don't enact for six more months.

What did you read that made you think this bill revokes your right to free speech and allows the government to break into your home and tear everything apart?

But you're right, the govt should be able to enter my house without a reason and tear eveything apart because they have to protect me from the unknown threat, because that's also where you are headed.

Again... who's the paranoid one now?

I drew the line at domestic spying, where do you draw yours?

Well by your thinking then, what's to stop anybody who wants to from coming into the country and pulling another 911?

Additionally, I don't have a tinfoil hat on and I know they don't care about me. That's not the point, I don't even want them to have the option...ever...that's the point.

Dumbass

Yeah, you don't have a tinfoil hat on, you just think the government is out to get you and everyone else . Call me the dumbass though

[rabble]

Yeah, you don't have a tinfoil hat on, you just think the government is out to get you and everyone else . Call me the dumbass though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came....

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

[impala454]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came....

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

WTF does this have to do with anything? What "group" is the government after? Everyone? And you were trying to use this to prove that you're not paranoid about the government?!?!?

[rabble]

WTF does this have to do with anything? What "group" is the government after? Everyone? And you were trying to use this to prove that you're not paranoid about the government?!?!?

Naw dude, its ok, they are only after the terrorists. If I'm not a terrorist then I have nothing to worry about. Whats that, now they are questioning and detaining people who publicly protest, thats ok, I don't publicly protest. Whats that, now they are questioning people who "don't look right," thats ok, I'm not an emofag/goth/whatever. Whats that, now they are coming after me? Well where is everyone else?

I was illustrating that when you sit around and let the government scare you into surrendering your rights, they won't stop until its too late. This is not tin foil hat paranoia, this is proven through history time and again. Sitting back and saying "It'll never happen here, we have rights/this is a different situation" is delusional bullshit. (once they take away your rights by giving you a label, all they have to do is call you a communist...i mean terrorist) But hey, I'm the tinfoil hatted idiot afraid of getting blown up by a terrorist, oh wait, thats you! I'm the tinfoil hatted idiot afraid of giving up even a sliver of my rights and then "hoping" that they won't abuse their power...which they will...because they always do (History, remember!)

[impala454]

Naw dude, its ok, they are only after the terrorists. [1] If I'm not a terrorist then I have nothing to worry about. [2] Whats that, now they are questioning and detaining people who publicly protest, thats ok, I don't publicly protest. Whats that, now they are questioning people who "don't look right," thats ok, I'm not an emofag/goth/whatever. Whats that, now they are coming after me? Well where is everyone else?

This is the problem with paranoia. You're taking sentence [1] and immediately assuming it results in sentence [2].

I was illustrating that when you sit around and let the government scare you into surrendering your rights, they won't stop until its too late.

And which of your rights is being surrendered in this case?

This is not tin foil hat paranoia, this is proven through history time and again.

Where in the history of the United States has this happened "time and again"?

Sitting back and saying "It'll never happen here, we have rights/this is a different situation" is delusional bullshit.

I don't know why you think this. That's exactly how it's been. Our country is different. In some Countries you'd be shot for typing what you just typed.

(once they take away your rights by giving you a label, all they have to do is call you a communist...i mean terrorist) But hey, I'm the tinfoil hatted idiot afraid of getting blown up by a terrorist, oh wait, thats you! I'm the tinfoil hatted idiot afraid of giving up even a sliver of my rights and then "hoping" that they won't abuse their power...which they will...because they always do (History, remember!)

And what would be their motives for doing so? And once again you use the buzzwords wrong... perhaps we should get you a buzzword dictionary. "Tin foil hat" is the term given to conspiracy theorists such as yourself. That doesn't apply to my insinuation that terrorists want to attack us, because it's already happened. It's not much of a stretch to assume they want to do it again.

You seem to think this bill is not intended for use in foiling legitimate threats to our country, but instead a plot by the government to... well... to do what? Take the greatest capitalist society on the planet and turn it into a dictatorship? What is the evil turrible government's overal plan of domination here?

[blaarg]

Where in the history of the United States has this happened "time and again"?

Playing Devil's Advocate and say the Japanese American internment during WWII.
That was pretty fucked up.
Taking a lot of civil liberties away from American citizens for more security.

Oh yeah and the whole McCarthy thing...
(at least one could argue)

[impala454]

Playing Devil's Advocate and say the Japanese American internment during WWII.
That was pretty fucked up.
Taking a lot of civil liberties away from American citizens for more security.

Easy to see that in hindsight though. And what civil liberties do Japanese people living in the US not have today?

[pebkac]

Easy to see that in hindsight though. And what civil liberties do Japanese people living in the US not have today?

I think rabble and blaarg were more making the point of history repeating itself (although I'll agree that that isn't the best example).

[blaarg]

I think rabble and blaarg were more making the point of history repeating itself (although I'll agree that that isn't the best example).

Well Impala asked

Where in the history of the United States has this happened "time and again"?

And I responded with cases in American history where Civil Liberties were grossly curtailed to provide security. I don't see how this is irrelevant and if anything makes rabble "less paranoid" because there has been occasions where this has happened (to use Impalas defense when rabble claimed Impala was paranoid about another attack Impala states:

How the fuck am I paranoid? It's already fuckin happened!!

, I surely think that rabble can make the same argument).

I also was intrigued about Impala's response and I think is the main difference between rabble and Impala:

Easy to see that in hindsight though. And what civil liberties do Japanese people living in the US not have today?

It's easy to see during the present why these intrusions are necessary for security, but in hindsight, misjudgments do occur and measures are needed to be corrected (the reason why Japanese Americans have all the rights as any other citizen nowadays).

I guess Impala thinks that in the future we won't label wiretapping as a governmental misjudgment while rabble does.

Oh and about the line in the stand argument. I think everyone does, regardless of how extreme. If something similar to the internment happened today, I would like to think that everyone (Impala included) would stand up to this injustice, shrug*

Hopefully I won't get every sentence I wrote (and sometimes clause) parsed and commented with some sort of sarcastic/borderline condescending phrase with an appropriate smilee (usually of the type or ).
<fingers crossed>