Awww... poor republicans Options

[pebkac]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/...-gop-stage.html

Wow... the democrats finally stand up to the republicans and now they're acting like children.

[rabble]

oh god, you're totally right!

Hay guys don't get on the/enter the (insert anything ever) because it isn't safe. I hope you get arrested for voicing your opinion one day because that's where you're heading. If you actually bothered to read anything, the sunset provisions on domestic spying don't enact for six more months. But you're right, the govt should be able to enter my house without a reason and tear eveything apart because they have to protect me from the unknown threat, because that's also where you are headed.

I drew the line at domestic spying, where do you draw yours?

Additionally, I don't have a tinfoil hat on and I know they don't care about me. That's not the point, I don't even want them to have the option...ever...that's the point.

Dumbass

[impala454]

oh god, you're totally right!

Hay guys don't get on the/enter the (insert anything ever) because it isn't safe. I hope you get arrested for voicing your opinion one day because that's where you're heading.

Haha ok... ability to investigate possible terrorists threat = having freedom of speech revoked. And you're calling me paranoid?

If you actually bothered to read anything, the sunset provisions on domestic spying don't enact for six more months.

What did you read that made you think this bill revokes your right to free speech and allows the government to break into your home and tear everything apart?

But you're right, the govt should be able to enter my house without a reason and tear eveything apart because they have to protect me from the unknown threat, because that's also where you are headed.

Again... who's the paranoid one now?

I drew the line at domestic spying, where do you draw yours?

Well by your thinking then, what's to stop anybody who wants to from coming into the country and pulling another 911?

Additionally, I don't have a tinfoil hat on and I know they don't care about me. That's not the point, I don't even want them to have the option...ever...that's the point.

Dumbass

Yeah, you don't have a tinfoil hat on, you just think the government is out to get you and everyone else . Call me the dumbass though

[rabble]

Yeah, you don't have a tinfoil hat on, you just think the government is out to get you and everyone else . Call me the dumbass though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came....

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

[impala454]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came....

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

WTF does this have to do with anything? What "group" is the government after? Everyone? And you were trying to use this to prove that you're not paranoid about the government?!?!?

[rabble]

WTF does this have to do with anything? What "group" is the government after? Everyone? And you were trying to use this to prove that you're not paranoid about the government?!?!?

Naw dude, its ok, they are only after the terrorists. If I'm not a terrorist then I have nothing to worry about. Whats that, now they are questioning and detaining people who publicly protest, thats ok, I don't publicly protest. Whats that, now they are questioning people who "don't look right," thats ok, I'm not an emofag/goth/whatever. Whats that, now they are coming after me? Well where is everyone else?

I was illustrating that when you sit around and let the government scare you into surrendering your rights, they won't stop until its too late. This is not tin foil hat paranoia, this is proven through history time and again. Sitting back and saying "It'll never happen here, we have rights/this is a different situation" is delusional bullshit. (once they take away your rights by giving you a label, all they have to do is call you a communist...i mean terrorist) But hey, I'm the tinfoil hatted idiot afraid of getting blown up by a terrorist, oh wait, thats you! I'm the tinfoil hatted idiot afraid of giving up even a sliver of my rights and then "hoping" that they won't abuse their power...which they will...because they always do (History, remember!)

[impala454]

Naw dude, its ok, they are only after the terrorists. [1] If I'm not a terrorist then I have nothing to worry about. [2] Whats that, now they are questioning and detaining people who publicly protest, thats ok, I don't publicly protest. Whats that, now they are questioning people who "don't look right," thats ok, I'm not an emofag/goth/whatever. Whats that, now they are coming after me? Well where is everyone else?

This is the problem with paranoia. You're taking sentence [1] and immediately assuming it results in sentence [2].

I was illustrating that when you sit around and let the government scare you into surrendering your rights, they won't stop until its too late.

And which of your rights is being surrendered in this case?

This is not tin foil hat paranoia, this is proven through history time and again.

Where in the history of the United States has this happened "time and again"?

Sitting back and saying "It'll never happen here, we have rights/this is a different situation" is delusional bullshit.

I don't know why you think this. That's exactly how it's been. Our country is different. In some Countries you'd be shot for typing what you just typed.

(once they take away your rights by giving you a label, all they have to do is call you a communist...i mean terrorist) But hey, I'm the tinfoil hatted idiot afraid of getting blown up by a terrorist, oh wait, thats you! I'm the tinfoil hatted idiot afraid of giving up even a sliver of my rights and then "hoping" that they won't abuse their power...which they will...because they always do (History, remember!)

And what would be their motives for doing so? And once again you use the buzzwords wrong... perhaps we should get you a buzzword dictionary. "Tin foil hat" is the term given to conspiracy theorists such as yourself. That doesn't apply to my insinuation that terrorists want to attack us, because it's already happened. It's not much of a stretch to assume they want to do it again.

You seem to think this bill is not intended for use in foiling legitimate threats to our country, but instead a plot by the government to... well... to do what? Take the greatest capitalist society on the planet and turn it into a dictatorship? What is the evil turrible government's overal plan of domination here?

[rabble]

This is the problem with paranoia. You're taking sentence [1] and immediately assuming it results in sentence [2].

If you had read the link I posted (which I am assuming you didn't) the whole point is that you don't think something is bad UNTIL it happens to you, and by that time, there may be no one left to help you. So yes, I am thinking sentence 1 results in sentence 2, because thats the fucking point.

And which of your rights is being surrendered in this case?

unreasonable searches and seizures

Where in the history of the United States has this happened "time and again"?

Replace United States with Human History and you have your answer. The "it'll never happen in America" argument is flawed because it is only America when people don't succumb to fear and let others chip away at their constitutional rights. This time its wiretapping without warrants, whats the next step?

I don't know why you think this. That's exactly how it's been. Our country is different. In some Countries you'd be shot for typing what you just typed.

You are absolutely right, so I'm going to keep wearing my tin foil hat so that you and I will continue to have the right to not be detained for the private communications we have with others. (but lets let them spy on us anyway, right?)

And what would be their motives for doing so? And once again you use the buzzwords wrong... perhaps we should get you a buzzword dictionary. "Tin foil hat" is the term given to conspiracy theorists such as yourself. That doesn't apply to my insinuation that terrorists want to attack us, because it's already happened. It's not much of a stretch to assume they want to do it again.

You are paranoid of a conspiracy of another attack, I am paranoid of a conspiracy to take away my rights little by little. We are both wearing tin foil hats. I never said that there aren't extremists, I said there was no way to measure the success of any measures to stop them. I am not afraid of a terrorist, you will not make me afraid of them (maybe its a jewish thing), why are you so afraid of them, why are they out to get you?

You seem to think this bill is not intended for use in foiling legitimate threats to our country, but instead a plot by the government to... well... to do what? Take the greatest capitalist society on the planet and turn it into a dictatorship? What is the evil turrible government's overal plan of domination here?

I am an American citizen, I do not want to "hand the keys" over to Muhammad. I cannot understand why you think this is what I want to do. I want to make sure that the protections that are granted to me by the constitution are not stripped away in the pursuit of security. I do not want to be in danger, but I do not want my private communications to be invaded my a 3rd party.

I asked you earlier where your line was, I feel you need to answer this question. At what point does your personal privacy outweigh public security? When is "enough is enough" for you?

[impala454]

unreasonable searches and seizures

So again, allowing a judge who's appointed by a politician to make this decision makes the searches reasonable?

Replace United States with Human History and you have your answer.

Well no shit sherlock, that wasn't the question.

The "it'll never happen in America" argument is flawed because it is only America when people don't succumb to fear and let others chip away at their constitutional rights.

Bingo, so do you think if the government started knocking down an even remotely high number of doors, we wouldn't stand for it and would do something about it.

This time its wiretapping without warrants, whats the next step?

It's not wiretapping without warrants. It's wiretapping suspected national security threats without warrants. You're the one assuming they're going to wiretap the entire country, and that the "next step" is some form of hostile government takeover of the entire population.

You are absolutely right, so I'm going to keep wearing my tin foil hat so that you and I will continue to have the right to not be detained for the private communications we have with others. (but lets let them spy on us anyway, right?)

Uh.. whatever you say. You're doing so much to preserve my rights by bitching on a message board about something you don't have a f'n clue about.

You are paranoid of a conspiracy of another attack,

How the fuck am I paranoid? It's already fuckin happened!! You might wanna look up the word paranoid after you finish looking up those buzzwords.

I am paranoid of a conspiracy to take away my rights little by little.

Yep

We are both wearing tin foil hats.

Again, I'm not paranoid, I just think it's reasonable to let government agencies assess legitimate threats without having to go through miles of red tape.

I never said that there aren't extremists, I said there was no way to measure the success of any measures to stop them.

So the how come you're measuring it? You're telling me they don't need unwarranted wiretaps. How do you know if you can't "measure the success".

I am not afraid of a terrorist, you will not make me afraid of them (maybe its a jewish thing),

Never said you were, and not trying to.

why are you so afraid of them,

I'm not particularly afraid of them personally. But they did manage to kill 5000+ people without a whole lot of effort. IMHO that makes them a legit threat. I'm sure you wouldn't have been afraid though if you'd been inside that building as it collapsed, since you're Jewish.

why are they out to get you?

Beats me. I think it's pretty silly myself.

I am an American citizen, I do not want to "hand the keys" over to Muhammad. I cannot understand why you think this is what I want to do.

"Hand the keys to muhammad?" I must have missed wtf you were attempting to say here.

I want to make sure that the protections that are granted to me by the constitution are not stripped away in the pursuit of security. I do not want to be in danger, but I do not want my private communications to be invaded my a 3rd party.

So how exactly do you achieve this? Liberal conversation at it's finest. You want your cake and to eat it too.

I asked you earlier where your line was, I feel you need to answer this question.?

Then I feel you should read the whole thread and not just my responses to you
http://www.techsans.net/forums/index.php?s...st&p=102176


Here's a question for you. The same question I ask Lance every time he posts some conspiracy bullshit. Conspiracies do happen, but only when there's a motive or someone has something to gain. What does anybody at all have to gain by slowly wittling down your right to "unreasonable" searches?

[pebkac]

So again, allowing a judge who's appointed by a politician to make this decision makes the searches reasonable?

Yes.