Fuck that Summer Gas Options

[dauss]

So I usually fill up at the Shell at Slide and 82nd, because they have 93 octane gas. I go by there on Saturday, and now its 90 Octane. $0.10/gallon more for 87 octane to 89 octane, and $0.10/gallon more for 89 octane to 90 octane.

The switch has begun in DFW, though I'm not sure how much will be switched out here in Lubbock. E10/gasohol is back on in the summer to help reduce emissions. So I've been reading, and found this:

Gary Whitten, Ph.D., principal of Smog Reyes, a California-based firm that provides air-quality consulting and research, recently found that gasoline containing 10 percent ethanol: Reduces carbon monoxide emissions by up to 30 percent. Reduces fine particulate matter emissions by 50 percent. Such emissions pose a health threat to children, senior citizens and those with respiratory ailments. Reduces emissions of smog-forming volatile organic compounds by 12 percent. In addition, Argonne National Laboratory, a U.S. Department of Energy laboratory operated by the University of Chicago, found that gas with 10 percent ethanol produced a 12 percent to 19 percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions linked to global warming.
-drivingethanol.org

So with very liberal estimates on emission reduction stated here, so practically, the emission reduction will be no where near the 30% for CO and 50% for fine particulate matter. I'm not sure how many other cars this applies to, but I've been reading on motoring boards that they are getting about 15%-20% less MPG after they filled up with gasohol.

Ethanol: A Tragedy in 3 Acts

It started with Congress, which mandated that even more ethanol be used to extend the nation's fuel supply. From General Motors, an ad campaign called "Live Green, Go Yellow" gave America the impression that by purchasing GM vehicles capable of using E85 ethanol, we could help reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

What GM left out of its ads was that the use of this fuel would likely increase the amount of smog during the summer months (as the EPA's own attorneys had admitted in 1995) -- and that using E85 in GM products would lower their fuel efficiency by as much as 25%. (USA Today recently reported that the Energy Dept. estimated the drop in mileage at 40%.)

But one final setup for the public has gone unnoticed. At the Web site, www.fueleconomy.gov, which confirms the 25% to 30% drop in mileage resulting from the use of this blended fuel, another feature lets users calculate and compare annual fuel costs using regular gasoline to costs using E85.

But the government site's automatic calculations are based on E85 selling for 37 cents per gallon less than regular gasoline, when the USA Today article reports that at many stations in the Midwest E85 is actually selling for 13 cents per gallon more than ordinary gas. Using the corrected prices for both gasoline and E85, the annual cost of fueling GM's Suburban goes from $2,709 to $3,763. Hence the suggestion that truth in advertising should come back into play. Possibly GM could rename this ad campaign "Shell Out Green, Turn Yellow."

So, with gasohol, I'm paying more, I'm getting less power, I'm getting lower fuel efficiency, and all the consumers gets raped.

[Psykopath]

America....FUCK YEAH!

[Fred]

2006 crew cab chevy.

[Testm0nkey]

04 v8 'muscle car'
i burnt through almost a half a tank driving to 82nd from campus one afternoon.
i will steal me a new bike soon

[M1N10N]

with E85 there is also an increase in NOx compounds

http://www.epa.gov/air/urbanair/6poll.html

[Hartmann]

with E85 there is also an increase in NOx compounds

http://www.epa.gov/air/urbanair/6poll.html

Exactly what I was going to post.

People seem to ignore this simple fact. Yes, your CO emissions may go down, but who the hell cares when your NOx emissions go higher? CO eventually burns off, NOx stays there and by some counts it's worse.

This is why I don't like ethanol and I'm tired of environmentalists shoving it down our throats. That and the fact that we are asking for money for food for Darfur while we burn food for gasoline.

[impala454]

i'm not sure if there's a municipal airport around here but i'm sure w/the high cost of gas right now, the 108 or 112 or whatever it is (i forget) that they pump into sessnas and crap isn't too much more than gas at the pump. go grab ya a few gallons and dump some in with each tank.

[Seussninja]

Ok so this might explain why i'm getting like 75% of my regular gas mileage

[Seeker]

I know shell is pumping out gasohol here in Dallas, on all their pumps they have a sign that says "contains ethanol". Are there any gas station companies pumping regular gas?

[James]

Hmm. I noticed I'm only getting 280 miles on a tank instead of 320. I thought that this was because I was driving differently, but I guess not. Oh well. Still have to buy gas since Texas is so spread out. I'm at their mercy.

[jonathan83]

gotta love public transportation overseas. america's is practically non-existant.

[Divergent Realit...]

gotta love public transportation overseas. america's is practically non-existant.

america, fuck yeah...

[impala454]

it's non existent here because our population is a lot more spread out. you do see more congested cities like those in the NE with public transportation.

[Hartmann]

i'm not sure if there's a municipal airport around here but i'm sure w/the high cost of gas right now, the 108 or 112 or whatever it is (i forget) that they pump into sessnas and crap isn't too much more than gas at the pump. go grab ya a few gallons and dump some in with each tank.

Gotta be careful with higher octane gas in older vehicles.

[Seussninja]

There is shitty public transportation here because the city was DESIGNED FOR CARS. Notice the sheer amount of parking lots and roads here compared to, well, everything else. Downtown is 70% parking lots. America in of itself is designing many of its new suburban centers around the car, and it makes me sick.

[Hartmann]

There is shitty public transportation here because the city was DESIGNED FOR CARS. Notice the sheer amount of parking lots and roads here compared to, well, everything else. Downtown is 70% parking lots. America in of itself is designing many of its new suburban centers around the car, and it makes me sick.

This is what I plan to do my Masters in Economics over. My thesis will be over urban sprawl and the effects on our buying habits.

[Seussninja]

This is what I plan to do my Masters in Economics over. My thesis will be over urban sprawl and the effects on our buying habits.

ok, if you need an architectural opinion i can give you one, and i can point you in the direction of a few profs who know what the hell they are talking about.

[Testm0nkey]

stephan thats a crazy interesting point. im being serious there are some amazing essays/books over so many different kinds of points tieing into that

[Hartmann]

stephan thats a crazy interesting point. im being serious there are some amazing essays/books over so many different kinds of points tieing into that

Yeah, there is a ton of stuff over different aspects of urban sprawl. It's all pointing to the future struggles that our country will face. Europe is starting to realize this and a lot of their cities are adapting. They have the high speed rail system already in place so they definitely have that going for them.

[pebkac]

Well, I think it's more of a Texas thing than anything else. In places like New York, it's very easy to get around without a car. I mean, imagine getting around Dallas or Houston without a car.

[Hartmann]

Well, I think it's more of a Texas thing than anything else. In places like New York, it's very easy to get around without a car. I mean, imagine getting around Dallas or Houston without a car.

Or Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco (they're trying), Roanoke, etc.

[pebkac]

Or Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco (they're trying), Roanoke, etc.

Details, details.

Although I hear San Francisco is actually pretty easy to get around with without a car. It's the most densely populated city in the US.

[Hartmann]

Details, details.

Although I hear San Francisco is actually pretty easy to get around with without a car. It's the most densely populated city in the US.

It's also one of the most suburbanized metropolitan areas in the country. It is basically a megatropolis, much like Los Angeles and it's kind of what the DFW area is turning into.

[pebkac]

Yeah? Well I'm right and you're wrong.

Beat that, bitch.

[M1N10N]

I dont think people want to give up the freedom of choosing their own schedule and route.

[Testm0nkey]

i actually found LA pretty hard to get around without a car. theres a lot of shit in one area but then other cool shit is in one area way the fuck away. the pulbic transport system in LA i found pretty efficient though. san francisco is really easy to not own a car in. its actually pretty hard to own a car there because the gas is so fucking expensive as is the parking, garages, and so much traffic. its just so easy there because the public transportation system is amazing. id bike it in both places though
austin is pretty similar

[jonathan83]

I dont think people want to give up the freedom of choosing their own schedule and route.

that's a moot point, because in major cities overseas, where the public transportation exists and thrives...there are buses, subways, etc. every 5 minutes or so. so yeah you won't give up your schedule. People still have cars anyway though.

[zetec]

london is cool.

gas is 7 pounds a liter.

LITER. POUNDS.


london is cool.

[jonathan83]

london is cool.

gas is 7 pounds a liter.

LITER. POUNDS.


london is cool.

um you're way off. you do realize that 1 pound is about $2?

so you're saying it's $14 for 1 liter, which is about $53/gallon.

you're way off dude. its more like $7/gallon. still pretty bad, but dude $50/gallon? no.

[Hartmann]

i actually found LA pretty hard to get around without a car.  theres a lot of shit in one area but then other cool shit is in one area way the fuck away.  the pulbic transport system in LA i found pretty efficient though.  san francisco is really easy to not own a car in.  its actually pretty hard to own a car there because the gas is so fucking expensive as is the parking, garages, and so much traffic.  its just so easy there because the public transportation system is amazing.  id bike it in both places though
austin is pretty similar

Don't get me wrong, I think the public transportation systems in both San Fran and Los Angeles are great, but I don't think they are able to sustain the needs of the entire city. If you go east of San Francisco there is nothing but suburbanized type zoning. That's where the problem is. Everyone wants to live farther from work (I'm generalizing) and it's hurting us in the long run.

And in Austin they are starting to shoot themselves in the foot. They should continue to build up the public transportation instead of worrying about traffic. People will eventually start looking for alternatives to driving to work when they have to sit in heavy traffic for two hours.

[zetec]

um you're way off. you do realize that 1 pound is about $2?

so you're saying it's $14 for 1 liter, which is about $53/gallon.

you're way off dude. its more like $7/gallon. still pretty bad, but dude $50/gallon? no.

last time i was there it was 4-5 lbs/gal for petrol, diesel was what was measured in liters. i've been up all night, cut me a break.

and yes i fucking realize how much a goddamn quid is worth. I was accounting for 2 lbs of recent inflation. (over the 5lbs/gal of petrol that it costs last time i was in the area)


and considering they often pay over 1000lbs in car insurance a MONTH, yes, yes it does cost that much. Oh, and then there's the congestion charge, where if you want to use any decently populated road you have to pay 5lbs a day. And then there's the speed cameras every 400meters that will cite you for going 1 over, as well as the mobile units set up by the police that will also run your plates for warrants and even unpaid cellphone bills (if you have O2/BT as your provider) and tons of other bullshit. Driving in london is very much a privelege held for the wealthy. (bikes have it easier, but not much)


don't act like i don't know what the fuck i'm talking about. driving isn't cheap in london.

[Hartmann]

driving isn't cheap in london.

And unless you have a permit you can't drive into certain parts of the city. New York is thinking of doing something similar.

[impala454]

Gotta be careful with higher octane gas in older vehicles.

well the OP was upset that he couldn't find 93. i'd guess he would understand the implications.

[zetec]

And unless you have a permit you can't drive into certain parts of the city. New York is thinking of doing something similar.

that's the congestion charge.


5lbs. a day.


convienently, though, you can pay it with your cellphone!


their phones are ages beyond us.

[impala454]

i for one like the convienence of being able to drive where ever the hell i want when i want and not have to wait on some damn train or bus.

[zetec]

i for one like the convienence of being able to drive where ever the hell i want when i want and not have to wait on some damn train or bus.

if you're referring to london, there's a new train at every zone 1 tube stop every 2 minutes. Buses are i think every 8 minutes. and considering the traffic, the tube is usually quicker. (a LOT quicker).

(tube = subway)

[Spectatrix]

Teehee, tube. That just reminds me of Futurama. And Tenacious D. TUBE TECHNOLOGY

[zetec]

The Spectatrix: get the scientists working on the TUBE TECHNOLOGY
ZetecWarrior: *tuuuuube technologyyyyy*

[impala454]

if you're referring to london, there's a new train at every zone 1 tube stop every 2 minutes. Buses are i think every 8 minutes. and considering the traffic, the tube is usually quicker. (a LOT quicker).

(tube = subway)

i wasnt referring to london i don't know crap about them. stuff like that is great if you're not carrying anything and you live inside the city where all the terminals are.

[zetec]

yeah.


i guess what i'm trying to say is, london's cool.

[Spectatrix]

yeah.


i guess what i'm trying to say is, london's cool.

If you love London so much, why don't you marry it?

[zetec]

If you love London so much, why don't you marry it?

restraining order.

[pebkac]

restraining order.

Jeez. You're such a newb. Just kidnap it and lock it up in your basement. That's what I always do.

Wait scratch that. This post does not exist. Fnord.

[Spectatrix]

Wait scratch that. This post does not exist. Fnord.

Fnord indeed. I didn't realize there was another Discordian on these boards...

[jonathan83]

don't act like i don't know what the fuck i'm talking about. driving isn't cheap in london.

uh yeah dude. i've been to london before too...most recently this summer. i know what i'm talking about.

[zetec]

uh yeah dude. i've been to london before too...most recently this summer. i know what i'm talking about.

*sigh*

she's so dreamy.


i can't wait to go back.

[hodge]

i'm not sure if there's a municipal airport around here but i'm sure w/the high cost of gas right now, the 108 or 112 or whatever it is (i forget) that they pump into sessnas and crap isn't too much more than gas at the pump.  go grab ya a few gallons and dump some in with each tank.

cessna.

for the most part they use 100 low lead, which you dont use in your car. and even then, smarter flight schools/pilots use mo-gas(same stuff we buy at the pumps) because its cheaper and works just as well/better since you dont have lead buildups.

fun fact, the FAA requires you to make an engine mod to any small airplane to use mogas... know what that mod is? a clamp you put on a steel pipe, think... rubberband on a flagpole.

[Hartmann]

cessna.

for the most part they use 100 low lead, which you dont use in your car. and even then, smarter flight schools/pilots use mo-gas(same stuff we buy at the pumps) because its cheaper and works just as well/better since you dont have lead buildups.

fun fact, the FAA requires you to make an engine mod to any small airplane to use mogas... know what that mod is? a clamp you put on a steel pipe, think... rubberband on a flagpole.

Depending on the plane, say a Piper Cherokee, you will get different "mileage" out of a tank of mo-gas than 100. The 100's higher flash point makes it a little more efficient, but more expensive so the trade-off is in your head.

[Spectatrix]

Higher octane fuel isn't any more efficient or clean or whatnot. The efficiency comes from the pressure ratio in your engine. The octane rating is merely a measure of the gasoline's resistance to pre-ignition (i.e. engine knocking). One of the few useful things I learned in thermo...

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: May 13 2006, 10:18 AM

[GOB]

100LL is also more widely available.

and it is much more expensive than regular gas right now. since we buy so much we were getting it for like $3.65, but i think the general public could get it for close to $4 at lbb. at slaton municipal it's gotta be higher because my boss hasn't made me drive out there in a while.


at some airports, like addison, it's over $5 per gallon.

[Hartmann]

Higher octane fuel isn't any more efficient or clean or whatnot. The efficiency comes from the pressure ratio in your engine. The octane rating is merely a measure of the gasoline's resistance to pre-ignition (i.e. engine knocking). One of the few useful things I learned in thermo...

I'll have to thank my flight instructor for giving me bad information. I never fly with 100 anyway, it's always regular old unleaded.

[hodge]

heh any owner/flight school that plans on limiting maint work is better off using mogas. ive had to sandblast pistons because of lead buildup, shit is annoying. and lamont; we used to get 100ll at ~50cent/gal more then we'd pay for 89octane, $5 a gallon seems absurd but i know how easily they can rip you off. to the market of .50cent-$1 markup per gallon.

another pro tip: 1 gallon of marvel mystery oil in 500 gallons of gas helps engines last longer. think of it as fuel additive

oh and hart: when you say piper cherokee it helps to specify model. with most all planes in general aviation there is big differences between each.

[GOB]

heh any owner/flight school that plans on limiting maint work is better off using mogas. ive had to sandblast pistons because of lead buildup, shit is annoying. and lamont; we used to get 100ll at ~50cent/gal more then we'd pay for 89octane, $5 a gallon seems absurd but i know how easily they can rip you off. to the market of .50cent-$1 markup per gallon.

another pro tip: 1 gallon of marvel mystery oil in 500 gallons of gas helps engines last longer. think of it as fuel additive

oh and hart: when you say piper cherokee it helps to specify model. with most all planes in general aviation there is big differences between each.

yeah, last summer the price of low lead was like 50-60 cents more than it was at the pumps. it skyrocketed during the fall.

the price is disgusting in lubbock, but it's a lot worse in other cities (places where people actually want to go)

[Hartmann]

heh any owner/flight school that plans on limiting maint work is better off using mogas. ive had to sandblast pistons because of lead buildup, shit is annoying. and lamont; we used to get 100ll at ~50cent/gal more then we'd pay for 89octane, $5 a gallon seems absurd but i know how easily they can rip you off. to the market of .50cent-$1 markup per gallon.

another pro tip: 1 gallon of marvel mystery oil in 500 gallons of gas helps engines last longer. think of it as fuel additive

oh and hart: when you say piper cherokee it helps to specify model. with most all planes in general aviation there is big differences between each.

I fly a 181. I generalize because most people don't know the difference between a 181 and 182 and don't care

[zetec]

100LL is also more widely available.

and it is much more expensive than regular gas right now. since we buy so much we were getting it for like $3.65, but i think the general public could get it for close to $4 at lbb. at slaton municipal it's gotta be higher because my boss hasn't made me drive out there in a while.


at some airports, like addison, it's over $5 per gallon.

addison airport likes to rip off rich plano old men with too much time and a pilots license.

that's pretty much their game.