Hundreds mourn 3 slain Pittsburgh police officers Options

[dauss]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...I6_7cAD97EIO600

PITTSBURGH (AP) — Law enforcement officials from as far away as Georgia and Boston gathered Wednesday to pay tribute to three fellow officers killed in the line of duty over the weekend.

Allegheny County police officers led three riderless horses to Pittsburgh's City-County Building, where mourners from the region and a host of police and correction officials visited the bodies of Eric Kelly, Stephen Mayhle and Paul Sciullo II.

The officers were shot to death Saturday morning while responding to an argument between a mother and her 22-year-old son, who is jailed on homicide charges.

R. Joseph Mason, a motor officer patrolman in Cobb County, Ga., north of Atlanta, drove up in a rental van with five fellow officers.

"We just don't wear uniforms in Cobb County. We wear them all over the country," he said. "And we wear the same uniforms. The band of brothers, the color blue sticks together."

Though he did not expect to meet the officers' families, he said, "There's thousands of people behind them, thousands of officers who love them and care about them."

Sgt. Joe Teahan, of the Boston Police Department, was one of 75 Boston officers and 25 from surrounding departments who will attend Thursday's memorial service. He said police officers are "pretty much a fraternity throughout the country."

"We're showing them that we got their backs," he said. "I think the families see the support from the number of guys here to let them know they're not alone. They know there are other guys out there, much like their husbands or fathers. ... We care."

Jane Bean, a retired counselor for the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections, made the trip from the suburb of South Park to pay her respects to the fallen officers. Her daughter and son-in-law are police officers in suburban Pittsburgh departments.

"You just admire and honor what they do," Bean said as she fought back tears. "It's time like this you realize how important they are."

Police say Richard Poplawski shot the officers when they arrived at his mother's house Saturday morning after she called 911 to ask them to remove him.

When officers arrived, Margaret Poplawski opened the door for them. She later told police that she didn't know that her son was standing behind her with a gun.

Sciullo was shot in the home and Mayhle on the front stoop. Both men were dead within seconds. Kelly was shot as he arrived to provide backup, prompting a four-hour siege and gun battle with police, authorities said.

Another officer, Timothy McManaway, was shot in the hand and a fifth broke his leg on a fence.

Authorities said Poplawski was wearing a bulletproof vest and was armed with a variety of weapons, including an AK-47 assault rifle.

Poplawski sustained wounds to his legs and is being held under close observation at the Allegheny County Jail on criminal homicide, attempted homicide and other charges.

Friends have said Poplawski was upset and angry about losing his job a few months ago, feared that President Barack Obama would take away his gun rights and believed Jews controlled the news media. Internet rantings found on a white supremacist Web site indicate Poplawski was preoccupied with the idea that Obama was going to overturn the Second Amendment and that Jews were secretly running the country.

Poplawski's public defender asked a judge on Wednesday to impose a gag order to prevent police from talking about the case. Lisa Middleman said police have disclosed what Poplawski said to them and other information about the case.

A spokesman for District Attorney Stephen A. Zappala Jr. said prosecutors would remind police not to talk.

Josh Davis, a 27-year-old student from Pittsburgh, waited outside the City-County Building several hours before doors opened to the public. He shook hands with officers and thanked them for their service.

"They put their lives on the line," he said. "(They) go through hell for us."

[Oasis]

Well, at least he shot cops and not innocent people

Cue another ridiculous gun debate between cmac and every rational person on here

[chook]

Well, at least he shot cops and not innocent people

Cue another ridiculous gun debate between cmac and every rational person on here

Well, those cops were innocent to. Crazy fucks like this are going to ruin gun laws for the rest of us.

This asshole shot a cop last year

http://www.abc15.com/news/local/story/Tucs...UW5Sn1oQdQ.cspx
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/200...cer0602-ON.html

[impala454]

Crazy fucks like this are going to ruin gun laws for the rest of us.

No crazy fucks like Obama & his posse are going to ruin gun laws for us because they are all for the pussification of America. Kill someone? It's the gun's fault. Fail in school? It's the teacher's fault. etc, etc.

[Psykopath]

the only good cop is a dead cop, we need more poplawskis

Would you say this to their family's faces, Lance?

[FORSAKENR320]

i have no issue with police. or even what they stand for. i do however have an issue with some of the absurd laws that they are forced to enforce by the retards with self serving political agendas

[impala454]

Lance wouldn't say shit. He just holds a grudge against every badge in existence, probably because he got some stupid traffic ticket or caught with pot or something.

[FORSAKENR320]

::insert stereotypical cop insult here::

[impala454]

oh i'd say something

You wouldn't say shit. And no it doesn't make you look cool to act like you would say it. In fact it's downright pathetic that you even attempt to do so on this message board.

, unlike you... since you wouldn't be able to say anything with the cops dick in your mouth

Oh yeah, I really have such difficulty keeping myself from telling an officer's widow that "the only good cop is a dead cop".

[impala454]

I know you wouldn't say shit to a dead person's family.

[Psykopath]

then you know wrong

Alright, prove it then.

Either fly out there and say it to their face, or at the very least of your disgusting nature...record a video of your tirade against those men and mail it to their families and/or the news media.

This post has been edited by Psykopath: Apr 10 2009, 08:54 AM

[RitalinJunkie]

Maybe I've been out of the loop a while....but seriously?
Talking shit about dead officers? Who died while doing their job to protect people?

You know...there are professions where you have to lead a bit of a double life.....Law enforcement officers being one of them...Most cops I've met are REALLY nice out of uniform, but you know what, they have shit to do and are required to enforce the law. While some do not do a good job at that part and can be assholes, sometimes they have to be asses just to get the job done.

If you really think the only good cop is a dead cop, then fuck you. The amount of stupid shit coming out of the mouths of people like you with no REAL reason (i got a ticket that was unfair....some cop gave me grief when i was skating on the sidewalk, etc) need to be put in their shoes for a while and see what happens to them. There is a ridiculous amount of stress in those professions.


The sad thing is that any one of those cops would have risked their life to save a pathetic piece of shit like you......


Again...go fuck yourself

[impala454]

then you know wrong

Nope

[moebary]

If I pass the panel interview, I start the academy in July.

[impala454]

Awesome. Where at?

[moebary]

Lubbock

[chook]

Lubbock

Hey Eric, I am in Lubbock this weekend!

[chook]

yeah because most scum cops raise scum children who grow up to be pathetic egotistic scum

I am going to mug you and let Forsaken molest you.

[impala454]

Aren't all cunts cock gobblers?

[THECHICKEN]

fuck cops they're all cock goblin cunts on power trips

they were all either bullies in high school and wanted to be able to continue bullying people or they're the nerds who are now jizzing in their pants because they're finally the ones hassling people

i have yet to meet a single cop that isn't corrupt and would throw down a gun on an unarmed black man after he shot him out of cold blood

ha ha ... god this is the stupidest thing i've read in a while.

[chook]

Don't forget the goblin cocks!

http://www.myspace.com/GoblinCock

[dauss]

Wow, this has taken a totally different tangent then what I had intended.

[FORSAKENR320]

Wow, this has taken a totally different tangent then what I had intended.

TECHSANS.NET

[moebary]

passed everything. I'm a cadet as of June 15th.

[cmac]

yea, i guess recycle every gun argument i've ever said and toss it back in here.
no gun, no dead cops.
that's all i got, really....

[Hartmann]

yea, i guess recycle every gun argument i've ever said and toss it back in here.
no gun, no dead cops.
that's all i got, really....

Are you suggesting that criminals cannot find ways to get guns when they're outlawed?

[cmac]

Are you suggesting that criminals cannot find ways to get guns when they're outlawed?

no, i'm saying they will be more sparsely distributed. less quantity, less deaths.

you can't kill cops with something other than a gun? lololol

not instantly. please try to kill me with a knife while i'm 40 feet away.
now try a gun.

This post has been edited by cmac: May 5 2009, 12:25 PM

[cmac]

that's vaguely looped in with my gun category.

[cmac]

my only problem with "guns" is that they can cowardly kill someone from a distance. i could snipe you from hundreds of yards away and you never even see me.

i don't care what the laws are, i just believe that it's cowardly to own a gun (ie: crossbow, etc, see description above) using it with intent to harm a human being.
knife, brass knuckles, stick, fists, crowbar, ninja, glass bottle it up, whatever, but at least both sides have a fighting chance.

[cmac]

yes, and said humans, with intent to harm a human, are, in my opinion, cowardly.

This post has been edited by cmac: May 5 2009, 12:58 PM

[impala454]

cmac blames guns not people... think I've seen this thread before.

Protecting one's self, family, and/or country is not cowardly, btw.

And murdering someone with a knife or bare hands instead of a gun does not make one brave.

[cmac]

i totally see the point of defending oneself with a gun from an assailant also with a gun. if i can agree to one thing i guess it is making the playing field equal. i just don't agree that guns should be as readily available to where people are breaking into houses and there are gunfights nightly.
i don't trust people enough for every individual person to handle them responsibly, and thus i think that the wiser decision is to try and limit the quantity of these weapons.
i realize completely limiting them from criminals or even generic citizens is never completely out of the question.

Protecting one's self, family, and/or country is not cowardly, btw.

also agree to this. i see someone who has a gun in their home cocked and loaded as often times just "waiting for the day." "i wish someone would break into my home so i can unload on them."
call up the police now, before anything has occurred, and let them know that if anyone breaks into my house, i will kill them dead. i'm sure they'll want to have a bit of conversation. (perhaps a texas stereotype, but possibly you may be praised in texas for this)

And murdering someone with a knife or bare hands instead of a gun does not make one brave.

no, it doesn't. i never said that. murdering someone, to me, is cowardly. in any situation. it's a human life we're talking about.

i believe in playing the odds. the odds of someone breaking into your home, or attempting to murder your family are slim to none.
i'm not preparing for the rapture because i don't believe it is coming. i'm not preparing for someone breaking into my home because i don't believe it is coming.
i take proper precautions to ensure this, such as using he locks that are provided on my front door, locking my windows, and living in a considerably safe neighborhood. i don't walk down dark alleys at night. i'm not paranoid, but i have common sense. i have general faith in humanity, and a pretty positive outlook on life. awful people do exist in this world, but generally we are a pretty safe place.

if you have good intentions with your gun, great. take a course. use some responsibility. keep it locked up. away from children. this is awesome
but it's not counter strike. it's not a steven seagal movie. it's a real weapon, with the potential to very simply and easily take a human life, and i think that people don't often think of it this way.
my discussions pertaining to gun control are regarding these people. which, to me, are very common occurrences.

and yes, we've had this conversation before. at this point, gun control has become the driving topic of techsans. i'm proud to keep techsans up and running, by keeping the conversation flowing

This post has been edited by cmac: May 5 2009, 03:14 PM

[chook]

i don't need a knife, i'll take you out with a crossbow from 50 yards

I shoot magic missiles!

[impala454]

i just don't agree that guns should be as readily available to where people are breaking into houses and there are gunfights nightly.

So, how do you go about implementing this?

i don't trust people enough for every individual person to handle them responsibly, and thus i think that the wiser decision is to try and limit the quantity of these weapons.

How does limiting the quantity ensure that only responsible people will handle them?

i see someone who has a gun in their home cocked and loaded as often times just "waiting for the day." "i wish someone would break into my home so i can unload on them."
call up the police now, before anything has occurred, and let them know that if anyone breaks into my house, i will kill them dead. i'm sure they'll want to have a bit of conversation. (perhaps a texas stereotype, but possibly you may be praised in texas for this)

You have a very skewed view of gun owners if this is what you really think.

no, it doesn't. i never said that. murdering someone, to me, is cowardly. in any situation. it's a human life we're talking about.

You said guns are cowardly but knives & fists aren't. So is this only dependent on the outcome of an encounter then?

i believe in playing the odds. the odds of someone breaking into your home, or attempting to murder your family are slim to none.
i'm not preparing for the rapture because i don't believe it is coming. i'm not preparing for someone breaking into my home because i don't believe it is coming.
i take proper precautions to ensure this, such as using he locks that are provided on my front door, locking my windows, and living in a considerably safe neighborhood. i don't walk down dark alleys at night. i'm not paranoid, but i have common sense.

Odds are pretty good that you won't get into a car wreck tomorrow either, so why bother wearing your seatbelt? Hell if the odds of someone breaking into your home are slim to none, why even bother locking the door or not going down an alley?

i have general faith in humanity,

No you don't, you think that humanity isn't responsible enough to own guns.

and a pretty positive outlook on life. awful people do exist in this world, but generally we are a pretty safe place.

If you're so positive and feel so safe the way things currently are, why are you so adamant about taking away people's guns?

if you have good intentions with your gun, great. take a course. use some responsibility. keep it locked up. away from children. this is awesome
but it's not counter strike. it's not a steven seagal movie. it's a real weapon, with the potential to very simply and easily take a human life, and i think that people don't often think of it this way.
my discussions pertaining to gun control are regarding these people. which, to me, are very common occurrences.

To you people who think this way are very common occurrences??? How many people do you know that own guns? Again I think you have a very skewed view of gun owners. IMHO you're probably the type that sees some story on the news about some kid who accidentally shot his friend with his dad's gun and then assume that's how everyone is. Look at the sheer numbers of weapons out there... a couple of quick searches says there's over 270 million civilian owned firearms in our country. If people were so commonly irresponsible with them as you seem to think, gun crime would be a lot worse.

and yes, we've had this conversation before. at this point, gun control has become the driving topic of techsans. i'm proud to keep techsans up and running, by keeping the conversation flowing

I don't know about the driving topic, but if you're enjoying singing your kumbaya around the campfire and "battling the evil hicks" by all means continue.

[cmac]

So, how do you go about implementing this?

this is not my problem.
:cue democrat, leave gov to protect you joke here:

How does limiting the quantity ensure that only responsible people will handle them?

it doesn't. it ensures that less people in general are handling them. this is very simple. i'm not sure why i have to explain this.

You said guns are cowardly but knives & fists aren't. So is this only dependent on the outcome of an encounter then?

if you can figure out a way to kill me from 1000 yards away with knives and fists then i will let you know those are cowardly too.

Odds are pretty good that you won't get into a car wreck tomorrow either, so why bother wearing your seatbelt? Hell if the odds of someone breaking into your home are slim to none, why even bother locking the door or not going down an alley?

some people don't bother locking their doors and choose to walk down dark alleys. usually they are safe.
and exactly, why bother wearing your seatbelt. i'd say the odds are about the same as getting boken into as getting in a major car accident. usually you'd be fine.

If you're so positive and feel so safe the way things currently are, why are you so adamant about taking away people's guns?

because innocent officers like this article die for no reason. it may occur infrequently, but it is saddening and pointless, and preventable

To you people who think this way are very common occurrences??? How many people do you know that own guns? Again I think you have a very skewed view of gun owners. IMHO you're probably the type that sees some story on the news about some kid who accidentally shot his friend with his dad's gun and then assume that's how everyone is. Look at the sheer numbers of weapons out there... a couple of quick searches says there's over 270 million civilian owned firearms in our country. If people were so commonly irresponsible with them as you seem to think, gun crime would be a lot worse.

i am from texas... small town america to be more specific. 90% of my hometown owns guns. so several thousand people...
no, i've see first hand people that don't lock up their guns or people that irresponsibly take their 4 year old out to fire a rifle. from my experience, it is a common occurence. maybe it's more common in redneck usa, but from my experience it is common.
i went to play at friend's houses when i was 6,7,8, 9, 10 and had easy access to shotguns proudly displayed on walls next to huge deer heads. ammo and all.
just takes some immature kid and the desire to play gi joe to cause a lot of problems.
a girl i hung out with here for a while who's parents live in steamboat kept their guns on top of their fridge in the barn. several times when family would visit they would send the little tots to the barn alone to play or to grab the waders to go fly fishing. all it takes is once. i've seen stuff like this hundreds of times.
gun lockers are expensive, so why lock em up when you can keep them loaded in your nightstand. that kind of attitude.
i think someone on here mentioned a while back keeping a gun under their pillow?

This post has been edited by cmac: May 5 2009, 08:30 PM

[impala454]

this is not my problem.
:cue democrat, leave gov to protect you joke here:

well at least you realize how dumb it sounds

it doesn't. it ensures that less people in general are handling them. this is very simple. i'm not sure why i have to explain this.

No it's not simple. In fact it's just the opposite, because laws banning guns would for sure take them from the responsible people, because responsible people are the ones who obey the laws and turn them in.

if you can figure out a way to kill me from 1000 yards away with knives and fists then i will let you know those are cowardly too.

You're avoiding the point. You made the point that the person dying was the common factor in it being cowardly. What the hell does distance have to do with anything? A good guy can kill a bad guy at 1000 yds the same way a bad guy can kill a good guy. Just like a bad guy can murder someone with a knife just as easily as they can with a gun. How many robberies or murders are committed at 1000 yards?

some people don't bother locking their doors and choose to walk down dark alleys. usually they are safe.
and exactly, why bother wearing your seatbelt. i'd say the odds are about the same as getting boken into as getting in a major car accident. usually you'd be fine.

Great, glad you agree.

because innocent officers like this article die for no reason. it may occur infrequently, but it is saddening and pointless, and preventable

And here we go around in circles again. If you could press a button and ban guns, you think this scumbag would have turned his in? It's so pathetic how naive you are, that you think all death is preventable and that anyone and everyone can be reasoned with or just has this great swelling of goodness in their heart somewhere...

i am from texas... small town america to be more specific. 90% of my hometown owns guns. so several thousand people...
no, i've see first hand people that don't lock up their guns or people that irresponsibly take their 4 year old out to fire a rifle. from my experience, it is a common occurence. maybe it's more common in redneck usa, but from my experience it is common.
i went to play at friend's houses when i was 6,7,8, 9, 10 and had easy access to shotguns proudly displayed on walls next to huge deer heads. ammo and all.
just takes some immature kid and the desire to play gi joe to cause a lot of problems.
a girl i hung out with here for a while who's parents live in steamboat kept their guns on top of their fridge in the barn. several times when family would visit they would send the little tots to the barn alone to play or to grab the waders to go fly fishing. all it takes is once. i've seen stuff like this hundreds of times.
gun lockers are expensive, so why lock em up when you can keep them loaded in your nightstand. that kind of attitude.
i think someone on here mentioned a while back keeping a gun under their pillow?

Bingo! Key words: small town. Your little redneck town of a few thousand from which you apparently get all these stupid stereotypes hardly represents your average Houston, Dallas, SA, or Austin resident. You know, those cities were millions of people live?

And on your little guns & kids rant, I didn't notice any stories of kids shooting themselves out of all these "thousands" of people you know who owned guns and anecdotal stories of irresponsibility. Don't make them up now though bc it'll be a pretty obvious lie. You might give this a little food for thought: You ever think that maybe, since they're teaching their kids about guns at an early age, that they understand about them and respect them??? Hmm what a concept.

[cmac]

well at least you realize how dumb it sounds

i realize how dumb the response sounds.

No it's not simple. In fact it's just the opposite, because laws banning guns would for sure take them from the responsible people, because responsible people are the ones who obey the laws and turn them in.

we'll keep the numbers small for ease.

1. 100,000 guns available. we live in a cruel world and 70% are owned by criminals. that's 70,000 guns for criminals. 30,000 guns for civilians. say 10% of these kill humans per year. 7,000 deaths per year.
2. we ban guns. point blank. for ease.
3. there are 10,000 guns available illegally. 100% for criminals. say 50% kill humans. we're under an all out apocalypse killing spree
4. 70,000 guns for criminals vs. 10,000 guns for criminals. 7,000 deaths per year vs. 5,000 deaths per year.
5. wacky numbers. less deaths. yay.

so there's more percentage in the hands of criminals. there's still less quantity.

You're avoiding the point. You made the point that the person dying was the common factor in it being cowardly. What the hell does distance have to do with anything? A good guy can kill a bad guy at 1000 yds the same way a bad guy can kill a good guy. Just like a bad guy can murder someone with a knife just as easily as they can with a gun. How many robberies or murders are committed at 1000 yards?

you can't tell me it's not cowardly for the university of texas sniper to camp out in a tower and just pick people off on the ground one by one without any warning sign of any bullet coming. i have no opportunity to defend myself. no opportunity to even know it's coming. you can't do anything from 1000 yards with your fists, knife, etc. you can't even do anything with your fists from 20 yards. but, dodge a bullet from 20 yards. impossible. it's chicken-shit. too much power is given with guns.

that you think all death is preventable and that anyone and everyone can be reasoned with or just has this great swelling of goodness in their heart somewhere...

no. i think several deaths can be prevented. no law or self-defending will ever stop it.

Bingo! Key words: small town. Your little redneck town of a few thousand from which you apparently get all these stupid stereotypes hardly represents your average Houston, Dallas, SA, or Austin resident. You know, those cities were millions of people live?

really...? it occurs in big cities too. i live in denver. it occurs here. and we're crazy leftist pot smoking hippy wackos. i have friends in every city you named. it occurs there. i think it's great that every single person you know is a responsible gun owner. i just think that is rare. i guess we hang around with different groups of people. or something.

And on your little guns & kids rant, I didn't notice any stories of kids shooting themselves out of all these "thousands" of people you know who owned guns and anecdotal stories of irresponsibility. Don't make them up now though bc it'll be a pretty obvious lie. You might give this a little food for thought: You ever think that maybe, since they're teaching their kids about guns at an early age, that they understand about them and respect them??? Hmm what a concept.

teaching kids about guns at an early age is done by example. open gun racks are not responsible. if someone wants to teach their kid responsibility towards guns at an early age, great. that's the way it should be done if they're gonna exist in the household. but that's no reason to not keep them locked up.
and for the record you could google endless amounts of stories of some kid going through dad's gun closet and getting a little nutty. so i don't know someone personally? doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

again. if you are a responsible gun owner, i think that is fantastic. my argument does not pertain to said type of person.

[FORSAKENR320]

i'm gonna take the money i got from selling techsans and put it towards an ak-47

splurge and get a yugo m70. even if the price has been marked up, they are well worth the difference

[FORSAKENR320]

cmac, i'm going to state this as bluntly as possible. my mother was a rape victim. not by gun, but by knife. if you don't think it can happen to you, you deserve it. that could be your wife/mother/daughter. congradulations.


another thing. you seem to think that people with knives and brass knuckles and bats are looking for a fair fight. life isn't like street fighter where you challange someone to a duel. when you get stabbed, you're getting shanked by surprise. the guy walks by, bumps into you. you've been gutted in a fashion that no body can be seen, the guy walks away and get lost in the crowd. we only caught about half the guys that did this, it happened alot when i was a bouncer. there is no honorable combat. but there IS honorable defense and deterant.

"stay the fuck away from me, or i will kill you with a device that you can't compete against"

[cmac]

that's unfortunate. people aren't perfect. if that happens, i'm just accepting it as my fate. family members, etc. hoping that justice takes it's toll.
i see owning guns for these situations as me building an ark in my backyard preparing for the next big flood.

[impala454]

we'll keep the numbers small for ease.

1. 100,000 guns available. we live in a cruel world and 70% are owned by criminals. that's 70,000 guns for criminals. 30,000 guns for civilians. say 10% of these kill humans per year. 7,000 deaths per year.
2. we ban guns. point blank. for ease.
3. there are 10,000 guns available illegally. 100% for criminals. say 50% kill humans. we're under an all out apocalypse killing spree
4. 70,000 guns for criminals vs. 10,000 guns for criminals. 7,000 deaths per year vs. 5,000 deaths per year.
5. wacky numbers. less deaths. yay.

so there's more percentage in the hands of criminals. there's still less quantity.

Wrong... if 70,000 guns are in criminals hands and you ban them, those people aren't turning them in, so your numbers are way off there bud.

you can't tell me it's not cowardly for the university of texas sniper to camp out in a tower and just pick people off on the ground one by one without any warning sign of any bullet coming. i have no opportunity to defend myself. no opportunity to even know it's coming. you can't do anything from 1000 yards with your fists, knife, etc. you can't even do anything with your fists from 20 yards. but, dodge a bullet from 20 yards. impossible. it's chicken-shit. too much power is given with guns.

Yes it is cowardly for someone to sit in a tower and kill innocent people, but you're putting the cowardice on the gun. It's the person pulling the trigger that's cowardly. IMHO someone killing innocent people is cowardly no matter what device they use to kill someone. And you didn't answer the question, how many robberies or murders take place at 1000 yards? How about a 6'4 275lb dude beating a 5'6 140 lb dude's ass with his bare hands? That's not a fair fight either. Or should we have the magical non-existent cmac police step in on every fight, robbery, crime, etc and weigh in both fighters and check for dirty weapons or anything else that might make it unfair? And why in God's name should a criminal even be permitted to a fair fight?

no. i think several deaths can be prevented. no law or self-defending will ever stop it.

I don't believe I've ever seen you not say that a death was preventable on here, every story where someone is killed you have to pop in with your kumbaya acting like if your perfect little ideal world existed the person wouldn't have died. You do what every other liberal I know does, armchair QB the shit outta everything, and present no solutions. Chronic whiners.

really...? it occurs in big cities too. i live in denver. it occurs here. and we're crazy leftist pot smoking hippy wackos. i have friends in every city you named. it occurs there. i think it's great that every single person you know is a responsible gun owner. i just think that is rare. i guess we hang around with different groups of people. or something.

Oh please. The reasons you cited and first place you went to get anecdotes were from your little Texas town, and you couldn't even cite any accidents. Your blanket "I know irresponsible gun owners in every city" is a unfounded statement. Obviously I didn't intend to say that every single person in those cities is perfectly responsible with their guns, but that your small town experience doesn't exactly represent the majority you're trying to stereotype.

teaching kids about guns at an early age is done by example. open gun racks are not responsible. if someone wants to teach their kid responsibility towards guns at an early age, great. that's the way it should be done if they're gonna exist in the household. but that's no reason to not keep them locked up.
and for the record you could google endless amounts of stories of some kid going through dad's gun closet and getting a little nutty. so i don't know someone personally? doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Oh, point me to google, that's a great response. And if you teach your kids gun responsibility then there's no need to lock them up. Just like with anything else, like liquor, smokes, valuable breakable items, etc. You say lock all these things up. What does that teach kids vs teaching them responsibility?

And a gun for the purpose of home defense is pretty useless if it's locked up. Though I suppose in your great flowery ideal world, the criminal would need to stop in his tracks, weigh in, and put on his boxing gloves, so you'd have plenty of time I guess.

again. if you are a responsible gun owner, i think that is fantastic. my argument does not pertain to said type of person.

Your argument is putting a stereotype on Texans or even the majority of Americans that people are not responsible with guns. The sheer number of weapons out there vs crimes proves you wrong. Of course irresponsible people exist, but are the majority of gun owners irresponsible? no.

[impala454]

i see owning guns for these situations as me building an ark in my backyard preparing for the next big flood.

no you don't. earlier in the thread you agreed that it's about the same chance as getting in a major car accident.

[cmac]

i'm not blaming the guns entirely.

again. if you are a responsible gun owner, i think that is fantastic. my argument does not pertain to said type of person.

i am attacking people that are not responsible gun owners, and i feels as if this is common.

but, i think that it needs to start with gun control. if even a little. i'm not suggesting banning them entirely because that is unfeasible. if i had my choice, i would, but it's not practical.

i don't feel as if you can trust people to take mandatory courses or even then implement the things taught in these courses.
but even then, harsher punishment for parents in situations below, more gun training or mandatory gun training.

i see the chances or a car accident the same as a flood coming.....

how many robberies or murders take place at 1000 yards? How about a 6'4 275lb dude beating a 5'6 140 lb dude's ass with his bare hands? That's not a fair fight either.

how many robberies take place from behind a convenience store counter? beating someone down with their fists with that counter in between them. 1000 yards / 8 feet. it's all the same. too much power in the hands of someone cowardly.

the following is a 5 minute search. it was even surprising to me how easy it was to find stories of such neglect.
----------------
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/21/forgotten.gun/
Irresponsible

http://www.gunguys.com/?p=393
Pretty sure this article is mocking the stats, but they are stats.

http://www.nbc13.com/vtm/news/local/articl...irmingham/68449
Irresponsible.
Resonably large city

http://www.scandalizemyname.com/?p=776
This one explains itself. Shouldn't a certified instructor be considered responsible?

http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafet...cs.htm#children
"one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week"

http://www.amherstbulletin.com/story/id/115448/
8 years old. allowed into a firearms fair... his father stood 10 feet behind him. irresponsible.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-3707428.html
gun was in glove compartment. irresponsible

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08240/907149-54.stm
irresponsible parents

http://www.wwltv.com/topstories/stories/ww...t.1ceb8faf.html
new orleans. i think that's a big city.

http://www.wftv.com/news/15545824/detail.html
not even 2 years old. irresponsible

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/388155_girl18.html
drinking vodka while cleaning gun. kills 6 year old. irresponsible.

http://www.wapt.com/news/17030444/detail.html
found gun in car. irresponsible.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_saf...ry/1345997.html
irresponsible parents.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/26/nyregion...ister-dies.html
climbed to get gun rack on wall. irresponsible.

http://www.kyw1060.com/pages/1794779.php?
irresponsible parents

http://www.wsls.com/sls/news/local/lynchbu...accident/26638/
13 year old kills 10 year old while hunting alone with father's gun. irresponsible.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/con...1lwboyshot.html
9 year old kills 11 year old

http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ss...ing_shot_i.html
dad cleans gun. 12 year old dies. irresponsible.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/03/...e=mostpop_story
13 year old kills 10 year old brother with father's gun. irresponsible.

http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/local...M-EHa5DTDw.cspx
12 year old dies from friend bring gun to house to show kids. someone's irresponsible.

http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/news/8495...others-gun.html
4 year old shoots himself in face with mother's gun. irresponsible.

http://www.trulyfe.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1046647

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2009/apr/...pparent-gunsho/

[impala454]

You found some great examples of parents who haven't taught their kids responsibility. But the guns are not the problem. The irresponsibility is. These kids are just as likely to die from many other irresponsible actions. I'd be willing to bet that you could find x50 stories of kids killing others while driving drunk. How about we go back to prohibition? Or make the driving age 21? It must be the alcohol's fault right?

and this: "i see the chances or a car accident the same as a flood coming....." is pretty laughable. yeah, those epic ark-requiring floods just happen all the time...

[FORSAKENR320]

i'm not blaming the guns entirely.

i am attacking people that are not responsible gun owners, and i feels as if this is common.

but, i think that it needs to start with gun control.

and.... why can't it start with the irresponsible gun owners?




there is a very very key difference to what you want and reality. you're talking about preventive measures, i know. but our legal system is based on consequence, not suspicion. you are violating a very large portion of american freedom by assuming that everyone is guilty before being proven innocent. you wish to punish all citizens so that you can catch the few bad seeds. it's alot like setting your house on fire because you have an annoying fly in the house.

the system is pretty simple cmac. you fuck up, you suffer the consequences. obey the laws, and you're fine



what you want is for everyone to obey the laws, and also suffer the consequences

[woody]

and.... why can't it start with the irresponsible gun owners?

and blame people instead of inanimate objects?

are you fucking stupid?

[FORSAKENR320]

apparently

[chook]

that's unfortunate. people aren't perfect. if that happens, i'm just accepting it as my fate. family members, etc. hoping that justice takes it's toll.
i see owning guns for these situations as me building an ark in my backyard preparing for the next big flood.

If you lived in South Dakota, it would of been good to do.

also agree to this. i see someone who has a gun in their home cocked and loaded as often times just "waiting for the day." "i wish someone would break into my home so i can unload on them."
call up the police now, before anything has occurred, and let them know that if anyone breaks into my house, i will kill them dead. i'm sure they'll want to have a bit of conversation. (perhaps a texas stereotype, but possibly you may be praised in texas for this)

I think guns need to be kept hidden and don't brag to a friend about them, I'll agree with you that guns are often mistreated, but if you grow up respecting that guns are a dangerous tool it will help. If someone broke into my house and came upstairs, I would shoot them without hesitation. I don't care what they were trying to steal, and it may be cowardly to shot them. I would rather be a coward than hate myself for one of my family being hurt.

In Japan, there are very little amounts of guns and very little violence. The worst places in Tokyo are much safer than Tech's campus.

[FORSAKENR320]

If you lived in South Dakota, it would of been good to do.


I think guns need to be kept hidden and don't brag to a friend about them, I'll agree with you that guns are often mistreated, but if you grow up respecting that guns are a dangerous tool it will help. If someone broke into my house and came upstairs, I would shoot them without hesitation. I don't care what they were trying to steal, and it may be cowardly to shot them. I would rather be a coward than hate myself for one of my family being hurt.

In Japan, there are very little amounts of guns and very little violence. The worst places in Tokyo are much safer than Tech's campus.

there is a bit of cultural difference too, right? i don't have alot of experience with the japanese, but every time i meet an exchange student from there, i can't help but notice how repressed socially they are. kinda like dogs that have been beaten and trained into sitting in the corner and shutting the fuck up, or something.

[chook]

there is a bit of cultural difference too, right? i don't have alot of experience with the japanese, but every time i meet an exchange student from there, i can't help but notice how repressed socially they are. kinda like dogs that have been beaten and trained into sitting in the corner and shutting the fuck up, or something.

Yeah, it seemed they are trained from the beginning. They have two personalities. Their social and private version.