Blind people pay with 20's instead of 1's?! Options

[pysex]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356727,00.html

WASHINGTON —
Close your eyes, reach into your wallet and try to distinguish between a $1 bill and a $5 bill. Impossible? It's also discriminatory, a federal appeals court says.

Since all paper money feels pretty much the same, the government is denying blind people meaningful access to the currency, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled Tuesday. The decision could force the Treasury Department to make bills of different sizes or print them with raised markings or other distinguishing features.

The American Council of the Blind sued for such changes, but the government has been fighting the case for about six years.

The U.S. acknowledges the current design hinders blind people, but it argues that they have adapted. Some rely on store clerks to help, some use credit cards and others fold certain corners to help distinguish between bills.

"I don't think we should have to rely on people to tell us what our money is," said Mitch Pomerantz, the Council of the Blind president.

Others say they manage but not always easily.

"When I pay for something and I get change back, I'm very slow and methodical. I'll ask, 'Is this the 10? Is this the five? Is this the one?"' said Kim Charlson, the library director at the Perkins School for the Blind, which is Helen Keller's alma mater.

Some use electronic currency readers. But they can be expensive, and they sometimes have problems with new $20 bills.

"It's slow," said Sam McClain, who manages a snack shop in a legislative office building near the Georgia Capitol. He has a currency reader but usually relies on the honesty of his customers. "Sometimes I have 10 or 15 people in here, and I can't use it."

The court ruled 2-1 that such adaptations were insufficient under the Rehabilitation Act. The government might as well argue that there's no need to make buildings accessible to wheelchairs because handicapped people can crawl on all fours or ask passers-by for help, the court said.

"Even the most searching tactile examination will reveal no difference between a $100 bill and a $1 bill. The secretary has identified no reason that requires paper currency to be uniform to the touch," Judge Judith W. Rogers wrote for the majority.

Courts don't decide how to design currency. That's up to the Treasury Department, and the ruling forces the department to address what the court called a discriminatory problem.

That could still take years. But since blindness becomes more common with age, people in their 30s and 40s should know that, when they get older, "they will be able to identify their $1 bills from their fives, tens and twenties," said Pomerantz, of the Council of the Blind.

Redesigned bills could also mean more job opportunities, since employers often hesitate to hire blind workers for jobs handling money, said Charlson, of the Perkins School for the Blind.

"When there are so few things in your life that you've got total control over, being able to even take care of your own money is such a big step, without requiring someone to tell you whether you've got enough money to go out and get a beer or have a hamburger," she said.

The government could ask for a rehearing by the full appeals court or challenge the decision to the Supreme Court.

Treasury Department spokeswoman Brookly McLaughlin said the department was reviewing the opinion. She noted that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, which prints the nation's currency, recently hired a contractor to consider ways to help the blind. The results will be available early next year, she said.

While the government has been fighting to overturn the lower court ruling, it has been taking some steps toward modifying U.S. currency for the visually impaired. The most recent currency redesign of the $5 bill introduced in March features a giant "5" printed in purple on one side of the bill to help those with vision problems distinguish the bill.

Indeed, Treasury has previously considered making different sizes of bills but ran into opposition from makers of vending and change machines. Government lawyers raised this issue in court, saying it could cost billions to redesign vending machines. But the court said such data are murky, especially since one proposed solution would be to leave $1 bills unchanged.

Given recent U.S. redesigns, the appeals court ruled the U.S. failed to explain why adding more changes would be an undue burden. More than 100 other countries vary the size of their bills, a federal judge said in 2006, and others include at least some features to help the blind. The appeals court said the U.S. never explained why such solutions wouldn't work here.

Not all blind people agree that U.S. money should be changed. The National Federation of the Blind sided with the government and told the appeals court that no changes were needed.

Charlie Richardson, the legally blind manager of Charlie's Express Stop inside the Capitol in Albany, N.Y., said he doesn't oppose changing the money but disagrees with the ruling.

"To actually be discriminated against is to have something denied to you," Richardson said. "We're not denied the use of money."

[FORSAKENR320]

FUCK THAT SHIT. don't be blind, or remember to fold your money certain ways.

[chook]

You know what is a good solution? Give out devices that scan bills and either say which type of bill it is or have braile on it.

[Mommy]

hmm good thinking... a bill reader distributed to blind people would probably be a lot cheaper than changing all our money... AGAIN

[impala454]

this reminds me of that stupidass article someone posted a while back about how electric cars should make noise so blind people dont step out in front of them

[THECHICKEN]

We can make the bills look like monopoly money but not distinguishable from one another by touch? This doesn't seem like a big problem to solve via an assembly line procedure.

[Mommy]

If you step into the road and get hit by a car, its your own damn fault. Short of blind people, who the hell sticks their ears out, then goes "hmm ok sounds good lemme cross now"?

It's not like I'm being lazy or anything...and I also am not "sticking my ears out" to do it. I just kinda walk, look out the corner of my eye and listen. It's more of an unconscious thing. Honestly, yeah, people should look both ways. I was joking when I said I side with the side against quiet cars. I only said that because I hate the Prius.

[The Fanatic]

I think this is a good decision on the part of the federal appeals court. Putting braille on the bills would not be that big of a deal and would allow blind people to distinguish between their money. You can't always trust a clerk at a store because they might decide to give you a one and put the twenty in their pocket instead. We give other people with disabilities certain rights and privileges in order to provide them with the same opportunities and rights that every day citizens enjoy. The court makes a good point by arguing that the government could logically strip other groups of their rights as well. For example, why should deaf people be able to make phone calls using the relay service. "Well, they are deaf, tough shit. " In elementary school we are taught the golden rule "treat others as you would like to be treated" and i know that if i was deaf, blind, or crippled etc. i would want to have the same opportunities as other people.

This post has been edited by The Fanatic: May 25 2008, 12:07 AM

[impala454]

I don't agree at all. You can't modify everything in existence for every type of disability to make them equal. You gonna require every product made to put braille on their packaging now too?

[The Fanatic]

No.


Just give blind people a scanner for barcodes and then said machine will verbalize the item in question. God forbid we make the life's of blind people easier. Seriously give a good reason as to why it should not be done other than "no we are going to have put braille on everything! Fuck those blind mother fuckers!"

[FORSAKENR320]

it's a matter of principle that people (like myself) are concerned with

catering to the minority by inconvieniencing the majority.

retard billy can't pass 2nd grade, so where' gonna teach the class easier material, and apply a grade curve so he can feel smart.

things like that is what i hate. you're blind, fuck off and figure out your own means of survival. no one is owed a free ride. learn to deal with the convieniences everyone else has, and stop begging for special treatment. if you can't pull your wieght, tough shit.


i agree with the scanner though. old people wear heart monitors and other such devices, why not a scanner? that sounds the fairest deal to everyone. plus, they can pay for the damn things themselves

[Epic]

this will be a non issue once stores start saying "credit/debit only"

I don't know if that's a reality anytime soon, but that's all i can think about when i see those commercials where individuals "screw up" the rhythm by using CASH instead of a card to purchase their items.

[Psykopath]

it's a matter of principle that people (like myself) are concerned with

catering to the minority by inconvieniencing the majority.

retard billy can't pass 2nd grade, so where' gonna teach the class easier material, and apply a grade curve so he can feel smart.

things like that is what i hate. you're blind, fuck off and figure out your own means of survival. no one is owed a free ride. learn to deal with the convieniences everyone else has, and stop begging for special treatment. if you can't pull your wieght, tough shit.
i agree with the scanner though. old people wear heart monitors and other such devices, why not a scanner? that sounds the fairest deal to everyone. plus, they can pay for the damn things themselves

wow


just, wow.

If you ever break your leg I'll bring over the twelve guage because you won't be able to "pull your weight" anymore!

[impala454]

I'm not saying "fuck the blind", just saying there's a point where accomodating becomes too much for not enough help. IMHO phasing out all money in favor of braille money in a world where the vast majority of places you spend money accept debit/credit cards, is too much. And like I said, if someone is swapping money, who's to stop them from swapping the products too?

[Oasis]

it's a matter of principle that people (like myself) are concerned with

catering to the minority by inconvieniencing the majority.

retard billy can't pass 2nd grade, so where' gonna teach the class easier material, and apply a grade curve so he can feel smart.

things like that is what i hate. you're blind, fuck off and figure out your own means of survival. no one is owed a free ride. learn to deal with the convieniences everyone else has, and stop begging for special treatment. if you can't pull your wieght, tough shit.
i agree with the scanner though. old people wear heart monitors and other such devices, why not a scanner? that sounds the fairest deal to everyone. plus, they can pay for the damn things themselves

I was about to post the exact same thing pretty much verbatim

And Zach, he wasn't being literal with that statement. Being blind sucks, yeah. You have a disadvantage to everyone who isn't blind. But you were born in to this society, this society was not born in to you.

What the hell are blind people doing waltzing around city streets anyway? Dumbasses

[chook]

You know offering money scanners would probably be better. Counterfeit Braille would be easy enough to do. I agree with Spivey that everyone wants to be treated well, and is a good thing to aim at. Truth is that everything is compromise and that is why we have different classrooms for smart and dumb kids. We are not created equal, but everyone should be treated with justice.

[Spectatrix]

They're redesigning our money every other year anyway. What's the big deal about including braille or other tactile features in the next design?

[FORSAKENR320]

punch yourself in the dick

[impala454]

what about blind people with hooks for hands? OMG they're gonna get ripped off by crooked clerks! it must be the money's design that's at fault, not the crooked clerk or anything!!!

/adds to pussification of america

[Oasis]

what about blind people with hooks for hands? OMG they're gonna get ripped off by crooked clerks! it must be the money's design that's at fault, not the crooked clerk or anything!!!

/adds to pussification of america

They're actually at an advantage because they can claw the clerks eyes out when they get ripped off. OMG I don't have a hook hand now I'm the begrieved minority. I'm suing someone

[James]

As much as money is handled, can it take the punishment and still be legible? Honestly, I don't think it can. Same applies to any possible tactile solutions you could implement. Just use the card and suck it up.

[kcroxyoursox]

catering to the minority by inconvieniencing the majority.

How is changing the money "inconveniencing" you? If anything it would be a way for blind people to be more self-sufficient and to figure it out themselves instead of always having to ask someone to help them distinguish between certain items.

[kcroxyoursox]

if someone is swapping money, who's to stop them from swapping the products too?

What type of product swapping are we talking about? Giving me the off-brand cookies instead of the Oreos? How does that benefit me if I'm the switcher - switching money means I could monetarily gain from it, switching the product doesn't benefit me except for possible amusement?

[impala454]

What type of product swapping are we talking about? Giving me the off-brand cookies instead of the Oreos? How does that benefit me if I'm the switcher - switching money means I could monetarily gain from it, switching the product doesn't benefit me except for possible amusement?

if you're the owner of the store? swapping a 20GB ipod for an 80GB?

I just find it funny that when reading this story, people immediately start talking about how the money should be changed. like it's the fault of the money design that this occured, when this really occured because it's human nature to steal from someone when the chance presents itself. I'm sure there are many other ways to cheat a blind person other than short changing them. I just think there's a point when you become too accomodating.

[Oasis]

As much as money is handled, can it take the punishment and still be legible? Honestly, I don't think it can. Same applies to any possible tactile solutions you could implement. Just use the card and suck it up.

Sure, use a credit card....but what happens when some retail merchant overcharges the credit card and the blind/visually impaired/rectally challenged/whatever bullshit PC term is now en vogue signs for it?

Eliminate credit cards?
Completely revamp the receipt printing system?

Where does the idiocy end?

Oh wait. It doesn't.

[Oasis]

Speaking of pussification, I just brought my roommates laptop in to my room. Seems the wifi we're leaching doesn't work as well here as it does in the living room

Who should I sue?

My roommate, whose laptop I borrowed without asking?
Dell, the company who made his laptop?
My neighbor whom I'm stealing wifi from?
The architect who designed the house I live at?
The construction workers who built the house?
Time Warner, our ISP?
God?
Al Gore, who invented the internet?
Brianna Banks, the skank I'm trying to jack off to on the internet?

Need some help here people. Cause god knows, this isn't my fault.

[impala454]

definitely the neighbor... you should knock on his door and tell them to move the AP closer to your apartment

[The Fanatic]

I'm glad i'm not the only one that leeches internet.

[Mommy]

They're redesigning our money every other year anyway. What's the big deal about including braille or other tactile features in the next design?

Because our dollar is already weak. Do we really need to put more money into more features on it? I think the scanner thing is the best idea.

And Impala, there are a lot of blind people in the world. There aren't very many blind people with hook hands. That's the difference.

[FORSAKENR320]

How is changing the money "inconveniencing" you? If anything it would be a way for blind people to be more self-sufficient and to figure it out themselves instead of always having to ask someone to help them distinguish between certain items.

who do you think has to pay for that money change?

[THECHICKEN]

The Euro:



Difference in sizes. What is so wrong with making one bill tactilely recognizable from another bill? It would help people who arent blind too.

[impala454]

And Impala, there are a lot of blind people in the world. There aren't very many blind people with hook hands. That's the difference.

DING DING DING

I knew someone would bite. Thanks for proving my point.

[Mommy]

DING DING DING

I knew someone would bite. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm not proving your point, but ok

[impala454]

in so many words, you said that the smaller group doesn't matter so screw em.

[Mommy]

in so many words, you said that the smaller group doesn't matter so screw em.

I never said anything that can be taken as "screw em" but my point is that doctors can develop special items to help people with handicaps that are more rare. Blindness isn't as rare so the government can do something about it.

[impala454]

The principle is exactly the same.

[Mommy]

*bangs head against desk*

I don't see what you are saying, but whatever. The principle isn't the same. Here is an example: You walk into a business and there are signs in both English and Spanish. Yes, this is America (and no I'm not trying to start this language argument again. It's just an example) and English is the main language. The company, however, appeals to a large minority (close to an oxymoron, but not quite) because there is enough of them. A Chinese person walks into the store. She doesn't speak English or Spanish. It is then up to her to come up with alternate means of interpreting the signs. The company will assist her by asking if anyone knows Chinese that works there, but it is ultimately up to her (in the real case, it would be up to the doctors of the blind, no hand man).

And your silly one liners aren't a very good defense. If you think "the principle is exactly the same" you have to explain WHY

[pysex]

*bangs head against desk*

I don't see what you are saying, but whatever. The principle isn't the same. Here is an example: You walk into a business and there are signs in both English and Spanish. Yes, this is America (and no I'm not trying to start this language argument again. It's just an example) and English is the main language. The company, however, appeals to a large minority (close to an oxymoron, but not quite) because there is enough of them. A Chinese person walks into the store. She doesn't speak English or Spanish. It is then up to her to come up with alternate means of interpreting the signs. The company will assist her by asking if anyone knows Chinese that works there, but it is ultimately up to her (in the real case, it would be up to the doctors of the blind, no hand man).

And your silly one liners aren't a very good defense. If you think "the principle is exactly the same" you have to explain WHY

SPEAKADAENGLISH?!

[impala454]

*bangs head against desk*

I don't see what you are saying, but whatever. The principle isn't the same. Here is an example: You walk into a business and there are signs in both English and Spanish. Yes, this is America (and no I'm not trying to start this language argument again. It's just an example) and English is the main language. The company, however, appeals to a large minority (close to an oxymoron, but not quite) because there is enough of them. A Chinese person walks into the store. She doesn't speak English or Spanish. It is then up to her to come up with alternate means of interpreting the signs. The company will assist her by asking if anyone knows Chinese that works there, but it is ultimately up to her (in the real case, it would be up to the doctors of the blind, no hand man).

And your silly one liners aren't a very good defense. If you think "the principle is exactly the same" you have to explain WHY

english -> those that see
spanish -> those who are blind

not even in the same universe of numbers to even begin to make that comparison/correlation/wordicantthinkofforsomedamnreason

I agree with Chuck that scanners would be a much better idea (and probably cheaper).

Chuck = Chuck

QED

[Mommy]

what does QED mean?

Oh and I am saying the scanners thing is a good idea too. So I guess there is no need to go on about this anymore.

[impala454]

part of doing science/math/philosophical proofs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.

[Mommy]

oh i knew that... I thought you were using some internet lingo that I didn't know like QFT or something.

[chook]

*bangs head against desk*

I don't see what you are saying, but whatever. The principle isn't the same. Here is an example: You walk into a business and there are signs in both English and Spanish. Yes, this is America (and no I'm not trying to start this language argument again. It's just an example) and English is the main language. The company, however, appeals to a large minority (close to an oxymoron, but not quite) because there is enough of them. A Chinese person walks into the store. She doesn't speak English or Spanish. It is then up to her to come up with alternate means of interpreting the signs. The company will assist her by asking if anyone knows Chinese that works there, but it is ultimately up to her (in the real case, it would be up to the doctors of the blind, no hand man).

And your silly one liners aren't a very good defense. If you think "the principle is exactly the same" you have to explain WHY

My argument is that the Chinese lady has the ability to learn English, the blind man cannot gain sight (hopefully just not yet). Mainly because Jesus got mad that the 12 didn't save him a seat for the last supper and decided to ascend.

To me changing the design of money shouldn't cost too much. The problem with changing the physical dimensions of money (my guess how most blind people would determine money size), would be the cost associated with handling money. Machines such as counting devices and money holders would have to adapt to the change it sizes. Someday money may have a rfid or similar device in it.

I believe that a personal scanner would be the most cost effictive solution to allow blind people access to it. Add a braille number generator so a blind/deaf person could use, and make it in several languages.

[FORSAKENR320]

english -> those that see
spanish -> those who are blind

not even in the same universe of numbers to even begin to make that comparison/correlation/wordicantthinkofforsomedamnreason

I agree with Chuck that scanners would be a much better idea (and probably cheaper).

Chuck = Chuck

QED

agreed. a better and slightly more accurate representation of jessica's example should be her wanting all signs in texas to be posted in English and Inuit

[Mommy]

agreed. a better and slightly more accurate representation of jessica's example should be her wanting all signs in texas to be posted in English and Inuit

HUSH YOU

[Oasis]

agreed. a better and slightly more accurate representation of jessica's example should be her wanting all signs in texas to be posted in English and Inuit

LOL

[Oasis]

I can't believe no one has stated the obvious, logical solution: make the blind people pay for the monetary redesign

That way, everyone wins; the blind people get money they can use; they take financial responsibility by paying for it because let's face it, they're the only goddamn people who have a use for braille on dollars; and the nonblind majority don't have to pay for something they have zero use for

Of course that'll never happen. Its easier for the minority to want something and expect everyone else to pay for it. Fucking douchebags

[impala454]

how the hell do blind people even know what the price is? maybe the guy didn't really get short changed after all...

[Mommy]

I can't believe no one has stated the obvious, logical solution: make the blind people pay for the monetary redesign

That way, everyone wins; the blind people get money they can use; they take financial responsibility by paying for it because let's face it, they're the only goddamn people who have a use for braille on dollars; and the nonblind majority don't have to pay for something they have zero use for

Of course that'll never happen. Its easier for the minority to want something and expect everyone else to pay for it. Fucking douchebags

maybe when you are stricken with a handicap you will feel differently. People always bitch about something they can't use until all of a sudden, they need to rely on the system. I guess this is where I'm not so fiscally consservative and sway more moderate.

[Spectatrix]

maybe when you are stricken with a handicap you will feel differently. People always bitch about something they can't use until all of a sudden, they need to rely on the system. I guess this is where I'm not so fiscally consservative and sway more moderate.

I would be somewhat more opposed to this if they were demanding OMG REDESIGN NOW!!!! to accommodate the blind. But again, if they just incorporate blind-friendly changes into the new round of redesigns that they are undoubtedly going to do anyway... whether it's 1 or 2 or 5 years down the line... I see little reason to complain. Could be as simple as adding Braille to the bills... could be as complex as foil inserts and different sized bills like the Euro and other currencies. Currency scanners are useful and all, but I certainly can see how they'd be slower and more cumbersome to use than modified currency... especially for blind retailers. Concerns about that are mentioned in the article, though.

[Inferia]

I can't believe no one has stated the obvious, logical solution: make the blind people pay for the monetary redesign

That way, everyone wins; the blind people get money they can use; they take financial responsibility by paying for it because let's face it, they're the only goddamn people who have a use for braille on dollars; and the nonblind majority don't have to pay for something they have zero use for

Of course that'll never happen. Its easier for the minority to want something and expect everyone else to pay for it. Fucking douchebags

We all pay for things that we don't need or may never need, minority or not. My tax pay for education of kids in a particular neighborhood, I don't have kids and yet, in the immediate terms, I have zero use for the school system (and in the case of me never having case, I'd still have to pay for it). We help build roads we may never travel one, and other projects we may disagree with, it's just how this works. The US government, well I guess all governments are socialistic to some degree. Not really saying socialistic system is better than other systems, chances are somewhere in the middle would be the best. And typically it's up to the people in that country to find out where that balance is, so as that they're comfortable with it.

[chook]

We all pay for things that we don't need or may never need, minority or not. My tax pay for education of kids in a particular neighborhood, I don't have kids and yet, in the immediate terms, I have zero use for the school system (and in the case of me never having case, I'd still have to pay for it). We help build roads we may never travel one, and other projects we may disagree with, it's just how this works. The US government, well I guess all governments are socialistic to some degree. Not really saying socialistic system is better than other systems, chances are somewhere in the middle would be the best. And typically it's up to the people in that country to find out where that balance is, so as that they're comfortable with it.

Spreading your Chinese Communist Thoughts. I hope the ghost of McCarthy comes and haunts you!

[Inferia]

Spreading your Chinese Communist Thoughts. I hope the ghost of McCarthy comes and haunts you!

No, communism is what happens when you ignore the little people.

[impala454]

No, communism is what happens when you ignore the little people.

No, communism is what happens when you transform the entire population into "the little people."

[chook]

No, communism is what happens when you ignore the little people.

I thought it was Fascism? I thought communism you make the little people all the same, usually though a Meat Grinder, Gulag, or a cultural revolution.

[Mommy]

No, communism is what happens when you transform the entire population into "the little people."

yup