My issue with Obama Options

[Hartmann]

Alright, so I have no problem with Obama not putting his hand over his heart during the pledge or national anthem but I do have an issue with him not explaining why.

He skirts the question every time, usually responding, "This is the classic dirty trick of the campaign.". He his making some sort of statement by not doing this and I want to know what it is.

[pysex]

Alright, so I have no problem with Obama not putting his hand over his heart during the pledge or national anthem but I do have an issue with him not explaining why.

He skirts the question every time, usually responding, "This is the classic dirty trick of the campaign.". He his making some sort of statement by not doing this and I want to know what it is.

odd i know...


especially when his wife starts making comments like

"this is the first time i've ever been proud of my country"


i'm telling you he's a mole...he's the ultimate weapon for the islamic fundamentalists...i wouldn't put it past them to have some kind of breeding program like the nazis and to infiltrate our politics and governments

[Hartmann]

odd i know...
especially when his wife starts making comments like

"this is the first time i've ever been proud of my country"
i'm telling you he's a mole...he's the ultimate weapon for the islamic fundamentalists...i wouldn't put it past them to have some kind of breeding program like the nazis and to infiltrate our politics and governments

I don't subscribe to that idea I just think it's a little odd that he won't give a straight answer. I'm sure McCain will have something similar and expect an answer from him as well.

[pysex]

I don't subscribe to that idea I just think it's a little odd that he won't give a straight answer. I'm sure McCain will have something similar and expect an answer from him as well.

Well just wait. He wins the presidency and then has access to all of our secrets.


PHONE HOME.




WE DIE.

[Hartmann]

Well just wait. He wins the presidency and then has access to all of our secrets.
PHONE HOME.
WE DIE.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or what.

To me he isn't a good presidential candidate due to his inexperience and his stance on social programs and the lack of tax reform. He can't figure out his foreign policy either.

[impala454]

mccain will beat him easily. he has just enough of a tiny smidgeon of left in him to attract a portion of the former hillary voters who have learned to hate obama.

[cmac]

[Hartmann]

Did I hit a nerve?

[Oasis]

Alright, so I have no problem with Obama not putting his hand over his heart during the pledge or national anthem

I do. If the leader of our country refuses to put his hand over his heart, what does that say about his patriotism?

[cmac]

nope. it's the pledge of allegiance. the pledge. of. allegiance.

mcain didn't wear a american flag pin on his jacket the other day......
OMG!!!!!
we must lynch him. he loves the terrrosts.

[pysex]

yes im joking

[Hartmann]

nope. it's the pledge of allegiance. the pledge. of. allegiance.

mcain didn't wear a american flag pin on his jacket the other day......
OMG!!!!!
we must lynch him. he loves the terrrosts.

I said I could care less.

However, his character comes through when he skirts the question. How is asking the question "dirty campaigning"? We just want an answer and the lack of one makes him less and less trustworthy in my opinion.

And Will, I already doubt his patriotism with or without the flag.

[cmac]

maybe we need a president that is a realist about the shithole the country is in, and not just you're either with us or against us.

[impala454]

maybe we need a president that is a realist about the shithole the country is in, and not just you're either with us or against us.

what shithole?

[cmac]

exactly my point

[Oasis]

what shithole?

The shithole where taxes and gas prices are at an all time high, and civil liberties and the value of the dollar are at an all time low, I'd reckon

[Hartmann]

maybe we need a president that is a realist about the shithole the country is in, and not just you're either with us or against us.

??

That kind of statement means nothing and is exactly the empty rhetoric that makes me think that Obama might be the worst person for the job.

I don't see anyone saying "you're either against us or with us", so what does that even mean?

Obama is proposing lowering taxes for the lower middle class, uh, what about everybody else? This idea that the federal government can fix the world's woes is preposterous and yet that's what he's proposing, that he can fix the world and "change" it. How? How is it going to change?! Is he waiting till he locks up the nomination before he tells us his plans?

I get this sneaky suspicion that most people who are contemplating voting for him truly believe it cannot get any worse in this country. The sad reality is that it can get worse, much worse. If you are going to vote for Obama are you prepared for rationed healthcare? Not saying that will actually happen but at the extreme of things it very well could.

[Hartmann]

Also, what was the point of the "eat as much as we want" part of his speech the other day?

What does that have to do with energy? We have an amazing ability to grow good food, so do we have an obligation to provide that food to desert nations? Is that what he's suggesting?

I basically heard that speech and immediately thought, "this guy hates NASCAR", which is fine by me but ha!

[cmac]

don't see anyone saying "you're either against us or with us", so what does that even mean?

the republic credo. question anything? terroist.
country's not doing so hot mr. bush...
terroist.

I get this sneaky suspicion that most people who are contemplating voting for him truly believe it cannot get any worse in this country.

pretty much...

The sad reality is that it can get worse, much worse.

yep. we could stay in an endless war that's done nothing to make us safer. we could continue to lose lives of innocent people. the economy could continue into the gutter. gas could continue to rise. global warming. and for the love of god those gay homos might be gettin married.

i don't care about taxes and i don't care about healthcare. there's much bigger issues to worry about.

Also, what was the point of the "eat as much as we want" part of his speech the other day?

is there a video or an article about this? i missed it.

This post has been edited by cmac: May 20 2008, 09:56 AM

[impala454]

The shithole where taxes and gas prices are at an all time high, and civil liberties and the value of the dollar are at an all time low, I'd reckon

What taxes are at an all time high? Income taxes are nowhere near any all time high.

So are you unable to afford gas and don't drive?

Which of your civil liberties are at an all time low?

The dollar's accumulation across the world is still more than double that of the euro, despite the value differences. what does that tell you about the actual value of the dollar?

it's just funny to me to see people here, in this extremely prosperous country, hanging out on the internet, making booku money, having fancy things, taking fancy trips, enjoy time with friends, starting families, and enjoying life overall. While other countries have people dodging bullets, starving, government taking all their money, being beaten if the oppose the government, no rights, etc. And our country is a shithole?

[Hartmann]

the republic credo. question anything? terroist.
country's not doing so hot mr. bush...
terroist.
pretty much...
yep. we could stay in an endless war that's done nothing to make us safer. we could continue to lose lives of innocent people. the economy could continue into the gutter. gas could continue to rise. global warming. and for the love of god those gay homos might be gettin married.

i don't care about taxes and i don't care about healthcare. there's much bigger issues to worry about.

Wow. That last line makes me cringe.

You care about gas prices and global warming... That's a little oxy-moronic don't you think?

Gay marriage? That can be handled at the state level, and like I said, it isn't an issue of constitutionality, if the voters don't want gay marriage, then so be it.

An endless war? I don't think McCain will have any problem getting the troops out when he takes office.

Question anything and it makes your a terrorist? You're starting to sound like Lance.

[THECHICKEN]

I love how the economy is in the gutter when growth hasn't even stopped. We have had a "slower growth period" but no down turn at all yet.

[cmac]

it's just funny to me to see people here, in this extremely prosperous country, hanging out on the internet, making booku money, having fancy things, taking fancy trips, enjoy time with friends, starting families, and enjoying life overall. While other countries have people dodging bullets, starving, government taking all their money, being beaten if the oppose the government, no rights, etc. And our country is a shithole?

cause no one outside of the u.s. has families or enjoys life.
you can't single out 10% of the world, and then say that our country is better than the whole world.
so we have life better than nigeria and iraq. there's lots of other places in the world that have things just as good if not better than the u.s.

[impala454]

the republic credo. question anything? terroist.
country's not doing so hot mr. bush...
terroist.

Where is this the credo? We have dipshits like Michael Moore getting on the public stage saying things like this. Is he labeled a terrorist? No. Is he dragged away and beaten for disagreeing w/the government? NO. It's little asshats like you who take your freedoms for granted and ironically use your freedoms to complain about your lack of freedoms.

we could stay in an endless war that's done nothing to make us safer.

yeah because we'd be really safe if we left that country in turmoil with iran next door building nuclear arms.

we could continue to lose lives of innocent people.

what innocent people? and how are we responsible for losing their lives?

the economy could continue into the gutter.

the economy had a gain, while the media keeps reporting we're in a recession. i dont understand how you get to the gutter by moving up.

gas could continue to rise.

yep, and everyone keeps paying it. what's obama going to do to prevent it?

global warming.

haha this reminds me of that family guy episode where lois runs for mayor, and just says "911" and the people cheer. it's like global warming has become some political buzz word. how you attribute global warming to obama or our country being in a shithole escapes me.

and for the love of god those gay homos might be gettin married.

the people of california voted to ban it, the courts (i.e. government struck down that ban).

i don't care about taxes and i don't care about healthcare.

wow...

there's much bigger issues to worry about.

such as?

[impala454]

you can't single out 10% of the world, and then say that our country is better than the whole world.
so we have life better than nigeria and iraq. there's lots of other places in the world that have things just as good if not better than the u.s.

That's my whole fucking point though! I didn't say we're better, I'm asking you why we're a "shithole".

[cmac]

Where is this the credo?

any time a republican opens his mouth. every hear bush speak? or speak words that resemble sentences.
war war. iraq. wmd. terror. 9/11. osama. iran. everyone wants to kill our babies.

what innocent people? and how are we responsible for losing their lives?

you might have forgot about the iraqi people. i understand it's difficult when most people only think of the people that live here in amercuh. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
when we decided to play world police.

yep, and everyone keeps paying it. what's obama going to do to prevent it?

explore alternative sources outside of people that don't put money in his own pocket.

such as?

like staying in an endless war. continuing to lose lives. the economy could continue into the gutter. gas could continue to rise. global warming. and for the love of god those gay homos might be gettin married.

[Hartmann]

I love how the economy is in the gutter when growth hasn't even stopped. We have had a "slower growth period" but no down turn at all yet.

Yeah, I'm still trying to find this so called "economic downturn".

any time a republican opens his mouth. every hear bush speak? or speak words that resemble sentences.
war war. iraq. wmd. terror. 9/11. osama. iran. everyone wants to kill our babies.

We need to get you a TV without a broken remote.

[impala454]

any time a republican opens his mouth. every hear bush speak? or speak words that resemble sentences.
war war. iraq. wmd. terror. 9/11. osama. iran. everyone wants to kill our babies.

just FYI, that guy is a comedian doing a bush impersonation.

you might have forgot about the iraqi people. i understand it's difficult when most people only think of the people that live here in amercuh. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
when we decided to play world police.

So... who killed these people?

explore alternative sources outside of people that don't put money in his own pocket.

alternative sources such as?

[cmac]

you're joking, right?
and we killed those people.

[impala454]

you're joking, right?

about what?

and we killed those people.

how did we kill them?

[cmac]

guns and bombs.
we can talk about that again...

This post has been edited by cmac: May 20 2008, 01:18 PM

[FORSAKENR320]

god it's warm in here..... so many Blanket Statements....

[impala454]

guns and bombs.

yeah, guns and bombs from iraqi insurgents

god it's warm in here..... so many Blanket Statements....

bwahaha

[cmac]

the u.s. soldiers get their guns and bombs from iraqi insurgents?

[impala454]

Guns and bombs fired from iraqi insurgents is what I meant to say. I guess I have to keep in mind who I'm chatting with and spell out the obvious

[cmac]

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/77064/
http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=3716
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=55793...ionid=351020201
http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=47129
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3102920.stm
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=53050...ionid=351020201
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/13/...in3933530.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/civi-j17.shtml
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/world/mi...;pagewanted=all
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/mid...amily_in_Kirkuk

u.s. soldiers. u.s. weapons.
innocent lives
need some more articles?
there's tons of 'em.

[impala454]

link 1: 1 death, soldier responsible was convicted by military court and sent to prison for 10 years

link 2: "a group of what appear to be civilians" - how could this be determined by the antiwar.com people that posted it? that video is so terrible, and they have no idea the context of how or why those people were there, or why the pilot was called to that location. You can't determine these were civilians. +0.

link 3: Second hand information from some "officials from hospitals" that were "unauthorzed to speak to the media" Let's assume it's true though. So +8.

link 4: "An error seems to have occurred. Please try again later."

link 5: Iraqi police were chasing a car in an unmarked pickup with a rear mounted machine gun. The car and unmarked pickup blew through a US checkpoint and was fired upon. One Iraqi officer died. +1. Legit friendly fire incident, but understandable IMHO.

link 6: Another medical official claims "At least eleven Iraqis, including women and children, have been killed." Article also says "US-led forces have been launching attacks against mainly Shia neighborhoods which are believed to be stronghold of supporters of moqtada sadr. "US-led forces" implies that there were other forces, most likely Iraqi police, involved. Also is it really the US's fault that these cowards hide in civilian neighborhoods? Should we just ask nicely for him to come out so we can kill him? Pathetic. I'll even give you this one though. +11.

link 7: A terrible accident. "In its statement, the military said that "coalition forces fired a warning shot into a berm near a suspicious woman who appeared to be signaling to someone while the soldiers were in the area. A young girl was found behind the berm suffering from a gunshot wound." +1.

link 8: A bunch of anecdotes cobbled together by "World Socialist Web Site". . I'll keep giving you the benefit of the doubt though I suppose, just to prove my point (which is coming). "US military has officially admitted to killing or wounding 429 Iraqis." This says kill or wound. Usually there are far more wounded than killed, but hey like I said, benefit of the doubt. +429. No way of knowing really how many of the 429 were already included by one of the other statements, but whatever.

link 9: Exact same story as #7. +0.

link 10: Extremely vague story from "monstersandcritics.com". And it says "Iraqi family" who had previously attacked U.S. helicopters. It doesn't mean they were civilians. +0.

So, 451 in your examples here (most likely nowhere near that, but again, benefit of the doubt here). Your other dramatic, terrible, omgzwarisbad link, iraqbodycount.com shows between 84,040 and 91,703 documented civilian deaths. Who killed the rest of em? Is a 0.5% civilian bad to you?

Keep tryin though Mr. Armchair. I'm not impressed by your google search and copy/paste. The fact that you posted the same story twice proves you didn't read any of them. I guess I'm not that surprised though, because it seems all too often the people who take your view don't ever look into anything. They take what the media hands them at face value without any regard for its meaning.

[jwttu]

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/77064/
http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=3716
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=55793...ionid=351020201
http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=47129
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3102920.stm
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=53050...ionid=351020201
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/13/...in3933530.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/civi-j17.shtml
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/world/mi...;pagewanted=all
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/mid...amily_in_Kirkuk

u.s. soldiers. u.s. weapons.
innocent lives
need some more articles?
there's tons of 'em.

its easy to find articles that support the view you take, but the fact of the matter is while some people have been killed by US soldiers others have been killed by suicide bombers and insurgents not related to the US.

I'm not trying to excuse the actions of the US, but you often try to show only the side of the arguement that you support and then criticize others when they try to introduce the other sides of the issue.

[cmac]

i'll criticize my side too, where it's deserved. michael moore is an idiot. and the democrats in office couldn't implement any decision, no matter how great.
and why did i know you're micro analyze every link.

1. so what if he was convicted. he killed an innocent person. that doesn't excuse it.
2. civilians/people/group/superman. whatever. iraqis died at the hands of u.s. troops.
4. yeah, i based it off the title of the article.
6. innocent iraqis died at the hands of u.s. troops. i don't care how or where.
10. family. iraqi. dead.

2 civilian deaths are bad to me. if they were doing that shit to us on our soil, killing our families, you guys would be up in arms literally. but it doesn't matter when we play world police, because its the terroists families and children that are dying.

i don't have to read any of them. i watch the news enough to know that this occurs all too often. and a simple google search is flooded with articles pages deep. the headlines seem to explain enough. i don't have to read each article to confirm what i already know.
and you seemed to give me a lot of "points" for having "irrelevant" articles.

i understand that iraqis have died from suicide bombers and insurgents. i'm only discussing the ones killed by u.s. troops though. it's unnecessary. if they want to blow up themselves, fine. but i don't live in iraq, so i can't be embarrassed of their country like i am this one. (waiting for "if you don't like it, leave" response)

[Mommy]

Just found out this morning my husband has been attached to an infantry unit in Georgia. While he is medical, this does increase the likelihood of him being sent to Iraq sometime in the next year or two. He will be in the green zone the entire time working in a hospital, but it still sucks. I told him this morning I'm voting for Obama (of course, I was kidding) so that we can pull out of Iraq so he doesn't have to go. Honestly, Obama has no real solutions to the issue in Iraq though and I still would vote for McCain any day of the week over him. The fact that most of our troops support McCain has to say something about Obama. I mean, they are the ones being sent over there; yet, people who safely sit at home and watch and read liberal biased media are the ones saying vote for Obama because he has solutions to the war in Iraq... he will bring us home. Yeah, sure *rolleyes* That's why I support McCain on this issue...because friends in Iraq and friends that have been there and soldiers that have potential to go there still support the conservative agenda on the war. In my opinion, they would know better than anyone else.

And the fact that Obama refuses to put his hand over his heart is a GIGANTIC red flag for me. Seriously, when will people open their eyes?

I'm not so concerned about his lack of experience to be honest with you. Sure, McCain has a hell of a lot more experience in politics and the military, but I'm gonna give Obama the benefit of the doubt on this one. I mean, Bush was just a lawyer before becoming governor of Texas, which is largely a ceremonial position in our state. That isn't what I would consider a lot of experience. Yeah, there have definitely been a lot of mishaps during his presidency, but I attribute that more to policy-making decisions as opposed to lack of leadership experience. Plus, I feel Bush has had a very difficult run as president because of the incidents that have occurred (Sept. 11th of course beginning it all). I don't know how anyone would have handled that any better. Plus, after having been attacked by a terrorist, I can see how the Bush administration would want to eliminate a past and potential future threat to our security (Saddam Huessin).

In summary, Obama is a moron...not because of his lack of leadership/political experience; but more because of his policy on Iraq, his failure to display patriotism toward a country he wants to lead, and his racist comments toward people who "cling to their guns and religion" aka backwoods Pennsylvanians.

[cmac]

i also like barack's technology policies.
just putting that out there....

and to stay on topic, If barack is not putting his hand over his heart to show some sort of protest, then i applaud him for it.
citizens don't have to support this country by default. our freedom gives us a right to voice displeasure and speak out when things aren't correct. if also gives you guys a right not to vote for him. so yay democracy.

ps: if elected, mcain will die in office.

[impala454]

1. so what if he was convicted. he killed an innocent person. that doesn't excuse it.

I didn't excuse it.

2. civilians/people/group/superman. whatever. iraqis died at the hands of u.s. troops.

uh... it doesn't matter if it was civilians? that was the whole point you were making was that the US is killing iraqi civilians.

6. innocent iraqis died at the hands of u.s. troops. i don't care how or where.

How do you derive that from the article? How do you know it wasn't Iraqi police that killed them?

10. family. iraqi. dead.

Unknown whether they're civilians or insurgents. What is known (at least by your own link) is that they'd previously shot at a U.S. helicopter.

2 civilian deaths are bad to me. if they were doing that shit to us on our soil, killing our families, you guys would be up in arms literally.

You talk as if we're over there seeking out Iraqi civilians and murdering them. Virtually every example you've given is either wrong or was an accident. Accidents happen.

but it doesn't matter when we play world police, because its the terroists families and children that are dying.

LOL.... and I'm supposed to feel sorry for them? So daddy decides to go join a terrorist organization, murder and car bomb innocents, and then hide behind his family and I'm supposed to feel sorry for them!?!?

i don't have to read any of them. i watch the news enough to know that this occurs all too often.

Funny, I didn't see any of your articles come from any of the major news sources. Which news do you watch? When was the last time it occured? If it happens "all too often" it should be easy for you to find some kind of source of our murderous troops rampaging the Iraqi elementary schools like you seem to think.

and a simple google search is flooded with articles pages deep. the headlines seem to explain enough. i don't have to read each article to confirm what i already know.

All the articles you posted were bullshit! And yet you think the headlines are explain enough.

and you seemed to give me a lot of "points" for having "irrelevant" articles.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt to show you the real point. That the civilian casualties from US troops are negligible in comparison to how much worse they could be, or how bad they were in previous wars.

i understand that iraqis have died from suicide bombers and insurgents. i'm only discussing the ones killed by u.s. troops though. it's unnecessary.

Well no shit it's "unnecessary". Any human being's death short of passing away in bed at age 105 is "unnecessary". What point are you trying to drive home here? All your doing is your armchair bitching and not even looking at the circumstances. You've been brainwashed into believing every headline you see without question.

if they want to blow up themselves, fine. but i don't live in iraq, so i can't be embarrassed of their country like i am this one. (waiting for "if you don't like it, leave" response)

Why would you be embarrassed of our country for going over there and surgically striking well enough to have only had a few hundred civilian casualties in a war that's claimed 151,000 (according to iraqi health ministry). That is freaking amazing if you ask me.

[THECHICKEN]

1. Bush does not have a law degree...
2. Im just glad cmac isn't in power... we'd be a poor defenseless sheep country.
3. Anyone see McCain on SNL? It was hilarious. I'll vote for the moderate over the know nothing idealistic idiot any day.

Oh, and bitching based off of civilian deaths is retarded to me. Saddam didn't murder plenty of civilians for you? Is it because we are trying to make a better country that bothers you? I suppose if Saddam was merely murdering still you'd be ok because its not a "world police" doing it...

[Billy]

i also like barack's technology policies.
just putting that out there....

and to stay on topic, If barack is not putting his hand over his heart to show some sort of protest, then i applaud him for it.
citizens don't have to support this country by default. our freedom gives us a right to voice displeasure and speak out when things aren't correct. if also gives you guys a right not to vote for him. so yay democracy.

ps: if elected, mcain will die in office.

Unfortunately, I want a president who can work with other members of leadership. Not someone who is going to pout because he didn't get his way.

[Dogmeat]

Alright, so I have no problem with Obama not putting his hand over his heart during the pledge or national anthem but I do have an issue with him not explaining why.

He skirts the question every time, usually responding, "This is the classic dirty trick of the campaign.". He his making some sort of statement by not doing this and I want to know what it is.

It's simple: He's a fucking COMMUNIST.

Look at his "plans" and whatnot. Listen to his wife talking. The guy is a fucking communist, period. That's his statement.

[chook]

I love how the economy is in the gutter when growth hasn't even stopped. We have had a "slower growth period" but no down turn at all yet.

my 401k said otherwise for a while.

any time a republican opens his mouth. every hear bush speak? or speak words that resemble sentences.
war war. iraq. wmd. terror. 9/11. osama. iran. everyone wants to kill our babies.


you might have forgot about the iraqi people. i understand it's difficult when most people only think of the people that live here in amercuh. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
when we decided to play world police.
explore alternative sources outside of people that don't put money in his own pocket.

If you read that site more. Its all violent deaths in Iraq of Iraqi citizens, not who killed them.

I'm tired of both sides of this shit. Honestly the US needs changes but not Obama's pipe dream. Change the world? Ethiopia Fiasco again. Global Warming, explore alternatives?

I would limit what unions could regulate on production lines, get more efficient cars out. Only let companies produce soo many cars with MPG under 25 highway. Gas prices is because the rest of the world wants gas now, and aspire to be us. Is the US worse than it was 8 years ago? YES!! Is it a shithole? NO
Patriotism is showing loyalty to America. The pledge thing is a no brainer and the lyrics are not about going to Iraq and supporting big business. Obama should be proud of America but not of those who have run it. Cmac, go check out a communist nation and see how life can be worse than the shit of America.

[pysex]

You're right. Americans need to stop thinking that sending aide and money over to a rotting country is going to fix the problem. They have to fix themselves before any real problems can be resolved.


Sending help to Ethiopia and Sudan is like putting scotch tape on a bullet wound. That fucking place is gonna bleed itself dry and no amount of foreign aide will fix it.

[impala454]

so supposedly obama is pretty much a lock now for the demo nomination?

[Mommy]

so supposedly obama is pretty much a lock now for the demo nomination?

ya... super suckage. people are blind. Hillary may be a fiesty bitch (and a democrat), but she is BY FAR the lesser of the two evils.

[impala454]

that's why i'm glad to see him take the nomination... doubtful that he can beat mccain short of mccain dying during the race.

[pysex]

ya... super suckage. people are blind. Hillary may be a fiesty bitch (and a democrat), but she is BY FAR the lesser of the two evils.

hillary is less of an evil?


hillary is the queen evil

[Mommy]

hillary is less of an evil?


hillary is the queen evil

who would you rather have in office? Someone named BARRACK HUESSIN OBAMA or someone with a name like Hillary Clinton?

[Psykopath]

who would you rather have in office? Someone named BARRACK HUESSIN OBAMA or someone with a name like Hillary Clinton?

You are a fucking tool.
You actually buy into that name (non)"issue"?!?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Dogmeat]

I don't want a fucking communist in office, that's my main problem with Obama.

Hillary I think the world could deal with, not that scum sucking slimebag.

[chook]

I would actually vote for Hillary, Obama I would not.

[Seeker]

My problem with Obama is that he's a member of the CFR and his mentor is Brezinski (evil evil Zionist NWO asshole).

[nickluto]

[Mommy]

You are a fucking tool.
You actually buy into that name (non)"issue"?!?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

No offense, but the "tool" insult is quite possibly the gayest fucking insult EVER. I *HATE* that insult with the passion of a thousand burning suns.

I don't "buy into the name issue"... I actually hadn't heard anyone complain about it until I started. I mean, seriously, Sept. 11th happened not even 7 years ago, and the American people are going to vote someone into office with a name like that? I mean, yeah, it's a good thing that America has gotten past some of the prejudice towards Muslims and what not, but this is an awfully big step. I don't want to sound prejudice myself. My shock is that AMERICA IS VOTING FOR THIS GUY. Obviously, I think the man is not right for the job, but not because of his name. I think that he doesn't know the American people. I know I harp on the Pennsylvania people comment, but I can't believe anyone voted for him after that.

[Oasis]

It wasn't until 1961 that a Catholic was elected to the presidency

If you really think Americans will elect a MUSLIM in to office in 2008, put down the bong

[Psykopath]

It wasn't until 1961 that a Catholic was elected to the presidency

If you really think Americans will elect a MUSLIM in to office in 2008, put down the bong

I didn't know a Muslim was on the ballot??

No offense, but the "tool" insult is quite possibly the gayest fucking insult EVER. I *HATE* that insult with the passion of a thousand burning suns.

Awesome. Kudos to me for pissing you off even more.

[Mommy]

I didn't know a Muslim was on the ballot??



Awesome. Kudos to me for pissing you off even more.

It doesn't piss me off. I just think its gayer than gay

[Oasis]

I didn't know a Muslim was on the ballot??

Sorry.

"Christian who was suspected to be secretively practicing Islam due to an internet rumor started in 2007, where investigation in to the truth gave numerous differing stories and inconsistincies and no one knows the real truth because investigation usually leads to red herrings and dead ends."

It's easier to say "Muslim," which I believe he is, whether practicing or non-practicing

I admittedly don't know much about Islam, but based on their track record, I doubt they take kindly to religious dissent by their offspring. His dad was a practicing Muslim. Oh, and anyone with an IQ higher than a gnat knows publicly admitting you're a Muslim is political suicide, especially in this day and age

Do the math.

[chook]

I think that mispelling has more to do with being from Corpus than anything else!

[pysex]

Look we're fucked any way you look at it.


McCain is Bush Light

Obama is one shady motherfucker

And Hillary is a woman.


Nuff said.

[impala454]

Well with McCain what you really have to look at is this:

1. McCain is not well liked among very conservative Republicans.
2. McCain is not as disliked by moderate liberals as Bush.

Personally I think he's genius for taking a more moderate stance, whether he means it or not.

[Spectatrix]

Sorry.

"Christian who was suspected to be secretively practicing Islam due to an internet rumor started in 2007, where investigation in to the truth gave numerous differing stories and inconsistincies and no one knows the real truth because investigation usually leads to red herrings and dead ends."

It's easier to say "Muslim," which I believe he is, whether practicing or non-practicing

I admittedly don't know much about Islam, but based on their track record, I doubt they take kindly to religious dissent by their offspring. His dad was a practicing Muslim. Oh, and anyone with an IQ higher than a gnat knows publicly admitting you're a Muslim is political suicide, especially in this day and age

Do the math.

Obama was not and has never been a Muslim. His father, though raised Muslim, was an atheist by the time he met Obama's mother. Barack Obama himself has been a Church of Christ member for over 20 years, FAR longer than he's been in politics.

[Hartmann]

Ok, so Obama told a story of a platoon leader who had his platoon split up between Afghanistan and Iraq. The Army has come out and said this is false and common sense/basic research will show that none of the armed forces would split up a platoon. ever.

[Mommy]

hah what a dumbass.

[cmac]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/27/i...i_n_103698.html
from the horses mouth.
i'll wait to be told how nothing from the huffingtonpost is credible.

[pysex]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/27/i...i_n_103698.html
from the horses mouth.
i'll wait to be told how nothing from the huffingtonpost is credible.

War has been that way for ages.

You give the average joe a gun, send him to a different country with a different culture and atmosphere and tell him they are the enemey...and shit like this happens.

The British did that to us during the Revolution. The French did it to themselves during their own. The Nazis. The Turks. The Kashmir. The Chinese. The Cambodians.

Don't for one second think the Iraqis wouldn't be doing the same thing to us if they had invaded America.

[cmac]

yep. and that makes it right...

[impala454]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/27/i...i_n_103698.html
from the horses mouth.
i'll wait to be told how nothing from the huffingtonpost is credible.

1. what does this have to do with Obama?
2. how did the soldier know his "first kill" was innocent?
3. why did he say "as you can see he was riding a bike" on the third kill? what does it matter?
4. if he really feels this bad about it and it's really as dramatic as he puts it, why did he do it in the first place? what changed him from someone who enjoyed it and was so evil to being sorry about it? my guess is a nice fat payment from the "american news project" who created the video (cheesy dramatic music and all).

[pysex]

yep. and that makes it right...

it doesn't make it right but what the hell can you do about it.....

you can't crawl into every single fucking head of all those billions of people holding guns and MAKE them stop....

all you can do is try and make the point that at the core....people fucking suck


but that's just goddamn common sense.

[Mommy]

If the man was just riding his bicycle, then why did he shoot at the man? That was his own fault. He participated in it, and then he took video. He harassed families. He choked people. He slammed heads against walls. He came back from war and felt guilty. He is trying to make amends for what he did. Not every soldier that goes to Iraq has shaky morals.

Why do they resort to actions like this? Because they are being shot at. They are losing friends. They are losing limbs. These soldiers become the closest of friends while they are there. Why? Because it is them against the enemy. They are there for each other, watching each other's backs.

This news story sticks out in my head. First man to be awarded the Medal of Honor in Iraq. Threw himself on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers. I don't know if it's in this story, but several times he put himself in the middle of enemy fire to save someone. This time, he was killed.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...dal-honor_N.htm

I wish I still had the bulletin my friend Charlie posted right after he got to Germany from Iraq. He had a couple fingers blown off from enemy fire and had to be sent back to the states (they stopped in Germany). He was saying that he hated that hell hole Iraq, but he was sad that he couldn't be there anymore with his friends fighting the enemy. This being all said after he lost fingers (including his trigger finger).

Some people don't deal well with what they saw. Some feel it is wrong what they saw (and it is), but this is humanity like it or not. We are not a friendly bunch. We are over there and we have to finish the fight. Forget the fact that Saddam murdered thousands and thousands of his own people. We are there fighting those that terrorize their own people. We can't back out. There are gonna be men that can't accept this fact and will return from Iraq to tell the world that we shouldn't be there. We are there, though, and we have to finish this or it will be a worse problem than it is now.

[impala454]

The most important question asked thus far:

1. what does this have to do with Obama?

edit:
nevermind I see that you're still pouring over this now week old argument. basically see jessica's post for why you're dumb

[Mommy]

I was responding to CMAC

[Mommy]

this says it all

This link was titled Patriotism vs Hope
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/...n.candidate.cnn

GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY GAY.... Is hope like some kind of code word for snake?

[Dogmeat]

i seriously think obama is as fucking dumb of politician as the US has ever produced.

the guy is seriously full of so much hot air it's just retarded.

[Mommy]

What I want to know is:
WHO THE FUCK IS HE PROVIDING "Hope" TO AND WHAT THE FUCK KIND OF "Hope" IS THIS?


oh and isn't hoping a lot like wishing... You need more than hoping and wishing to change a country around.

[Mommy]

ALBUQUERQUE, New Mexico (AP) - Republican John McCain on Monday sharply criticized Democratic rival Barack Obama for not having been to Iraq since 2006, and said they should visit the war zone together.

"Look at what happened in the last two years since Senator Obama visited and declared the war lost," the GOP nominee-in-waiting told The Associated Press in an interview, noting that the Illinois senator's last trip to Iraq came before the military buildup that is credited with curbing violence.

"He really has no experience or knowledge or judgment about the issue of Iraq and he has wanted to surrender for a long time," the Arizona senator added. "If there was any other issue before the American people, and you hadn't had anything to do with it in a couple of years, I think the American people would judge that very harshly."

McCain, a Navy veteran and Vietnam prisoner of war, frequently argues that he's the most qualified candidate to be a wartime commander in chief. In recent weeks, he has sought portray Obama, a first-term senator, as naive on foreign policy and not as qualified to lead the military.

The Iraq war, which polls have shown that most of the country opposes, is shaping up to be a defining issue in the November presidential election. McCain, who wrapped up the GOP nomination in March, supports continued military involvement in Iraq; Obama, who has all but clinched the Democratic nomination, has called for withdrawing U.S. troops.

"For him to talk about dates for withdrawal, which basically is surrender in Iraq after we're succeeding so well is, I think, really inexcusable," said McCain, who has been to Iraq eight times, most recently in March.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

The man has a point.

[chook]

I remember the democrats promising to pull troops out of Iraq when they had majority and cut funding for the war. Truth is we can't pull out. I was originally for it, but I was being stupid.

My brother has served two tours there. He hates the fact that he had to kill, but he was being shot at. I'm sorry but the smugness of Colorado is far off from the reality of Iraq.

[FORSAKENR320]

You need more than hoping and wishing to change a country around.

yea.... don't be a democrat and something might get accomplished

[Hartmann]

oh and isn't hoping a lot like wishing... You need more than hoping and wishing to change a country around.

Scary thing is, Jimmy Carter ran on a "change" and "hope" platform and that tard won.

I remember the democrats promising to pull troops out of Iraq when they had majority and cut funding for the war. Truth is we can't pull out. I was originally for it, but I was being stupid.

My brother has served two tours there. He hates the fact that he had to kill, but he was being shot at. I'm sorry but the smugness of Colorado is far off from the reality of Iraq.

Anyone else noticed the news has been eerily quiet on the topic of Iraq?

[Melanie]

I admittedly don't know much about Islam, but based on their track record, I doubt they take kindly to religious dissent by their offspring. His dad was a practicing Muslim. Oh, and anyone with an IQ higher than a gnat knows publicly admitting you're a Muslim is political suicide, especially in this day and age

That's cute... Christians kill Christians in large groups too. Look at IRA. Nagaland Rebels, Lords Resistance Army... for Christ's sakes, KU KLUX KLAN.

admitting you're a Muslim seemed to have done Keith Ellison some good as getting elected to Congress.

[Melanie]

Scary thing is, Jimmy Carter ran on a "change" and "hope" platform and that tard won.
Anyone else noticed the news has been eerily quiet on the topic of Iraq?

Iraq is a non issue now. People are more concerned with the economy and gas. It was an issue 4 years ago, but like everything else, political concern goes in cycles.

[woody]

Iraq is a non issue now. People are more concerned with the economy and gas. It was an issue 4 years ago, but like everything else, political concern goes in cycles.

Yes I'm sure for the families of those below who have died this month, it's an issue 4 years ago.

Lance Corporal Casey L. Casanova
Corporal Miguel A. Guzman
Lance Corporal James F. Kimple
Sergeant Glen E. Martinez
Specialist Jeffrey F. Nichols
Private Corey L. Hicks
Private 1st Class Aaron J. Ward
Specialist Alex D. Gonzalez
Specialist Mary J. Jaenichen
Specialist Joseph A. Ford
Corporal Jessica A. Ellis
Sergeant Victor M. Cota
Sergeant John K. Daggett
Private Branden P. Haunert
Private 1st Class Kyle Phillip Norris
Sergeant Blake W. Evans
Sergeant Frank J. Gasper

[Hartmann]

Iraq is a non issue now. People are more concerned with the economy and gas. It was an issue 4 years ago, but like everything else, political concern goes in cycles.

Well that's fantastic.

Hope Obama doesn't let that slip at a townhall meeting, might get all those farmers with their guns and Bibles a little pissed off.

[impala454]

Iraq is a non issue now. People are more concerned with the economy and gas. It was an issue 4 years ago, but like everything else, political concern goes in cycles.

the media makes it a non-issue because it's going well. when it's going bad they make it an issue again.

/baaaaaaaa

[Jim]

the media makes it a non-issue because it's going well. when it's going bad they make it an issue again.

/baaaaaaaa

Not to point out the obvious... but this is always the case with the media on every single issue ever brought forth. Good news isn't news at all. It doesn't get ratings. Bad news, on the other hand, their ratings sky rocket and money comes flowing in.

[impala454]

Not to point out the obvious... but 2+2=4

[Oasis]

Not to point out the obvious... but 2+2=4

All this time I thought the answer was 5

[cmac]

hehe
http://i29.tinypic.com/xqkf9c.jpg

[impala454]

lol awesome

[Jim]

Not to point out the obvious... but 2+2=4

Clearly you've never seen the situation where 2+2=5.

[impala454]

uh oh, it's AIR OBAMA

[chook]

That's cute... Christians kill Christians in large groups too. Look at IRA. Nagaland Rebels, Lords Resistance Army... for Christ's sakes, KU KLUX KLAN.

admitting you're a Muslim seemed to have done Keith Ellison some good as getting elected to Congress.

The difference is that the average Christian denounces christians that kill. The Muslims, not soo much.

[Testm0nkey]

what cmac or whoever it was posting on the last page hasnt realized yet is that the majority of techsans posters have no hope for the future and little faith in their fellow man.

[Mommy]

Iraq is a non issue now. People are more concerned with the economy and gas. It was an issue 4 years ago, but like everything else, political concern goes in cycles.

WRONG. I read an article yesterday on cnn that said the war in Iraq is one of the biggest issues (if not the biggest) for this presidential election. Many blame it for our struggling economy.

[Mommy]

what cmac or whoever it was posting on the last page hasnt realized yet is that the majority of techsans posters have no hope for the future and little faith in their fellow man.

I'm not going to put faith in a group that is the way it is. Yes, there are millions of great people out there, but for every great person there is an evil person. Humanity is landsliding.

[Testm0nkey]

and so then the best thing to do is nothing about it?

im just going on about the need for change and the existence of a better future


you people are all debbie downers most of the time!