MIS vs. Comp Science Options

[pebkac]

I'm going to go back to school this fall, and I'm trying to decide something. I'd like to do something working with computers and networking, but I don't neccessarily want to be a computer programmer.

Which would be better for me to major in?

[Billy]

Computer Science pays more. Also, it's harder to find an MIS job now a days.

[woody]

CCNE/MCSE

[jonathan83]

i know tons of people who switch from CS to MIS because MIS is easier or something. MIS is more business-related and deals with networking more I think? while CS is mainly programming? i think?

[Dogmeat]

MIS = babysit computers and answer calls about broken mice
CS = Have somone else do that for you while you do actual programming

go for CS

MIS is basically the computer-equivelent of an "engineering tech" degree instead of an actual engineering degree, except it's not even that hard.

I mean for instance, if I put my resume up against yours going for the type of position people with MIS degrees usually get I'd probably get hired instead of you and I don't even have a college degree in MIS, but for what the job would be I've got GOBS of experience doing it. If you had a CS degree on the other hand, you'd probably get hired over me

[Seeker]

go with computer science and take computer networking with sobolewski, then when you run out of undergrad classes take his graduate networking class, these two classes will benefit you greatly, more so than any MIS class, if you want to go into networking

that's what i did and now i'm a software/networking engineer designing carrier-grade voip equipment

majors are meaningless though, it all depends on how dedicated the student is

[Hartmann]

Computer Science pays more.  Also, it's harder to find an MIS job now a days.

WTF?

I've received more offers from good companies than most of my Comp Sci friends. But that's beside the point, they are two completely seperate fields.

Computer Science is very focused on just that, the science in programming. It's theory based and there's a reason you take engineering courses. Most computer science majors get jobs programming or doing security work. The type of programming they do is different though, it's usually not business applications but compilers, telephone systems, etc. instead.

MIS majors are business people. We are taught the business aspect of IT. We take all of the core business classes and then our programming classes. When MIS majors graduate they usually go to work for risk consulting groups or software firms to build business support applications (HR apps, accounting, etc.).

Dr. Durrett, one of the professors in the MIS department, told us yesterday that they are changing the curriculum next semester to have to seperate focuses in the area. You can go the programming route and take more of those courses or focus on networking.

You should definitely talk to him, he is a Computer Science guy from UT. Very smart and really cool. His website: http://jdurrett.ba.ttu.edu/4383/index.html (if you click on Syllabus you can get his phone number, it's easier to reach him by calling)

Fastest growing industries: http://www.acinet.org/acinet/indview1.asp?id=8&nodeid=45@


[edit]
I love how everyone assumes what MIS does. We aren't tech support. Most of us don't want to do what Lance is doing (sorry Lance, it just ain't for me), we'd rather be working our way into management positions. Our function is to support the business from a software side of things, not answer calls and fix people's mouse problems. It just proves the common misconception.[/edit]

[Seeker]

instead of working my way into managment positions working for other people, i'll be starting my own company working for myself sometime within the coming years

also, engineering students whether it be CS, EE, ME, ChE, or whatever usually get hired on at a company and then have that comany pay for them to go back to school and get an MBA, then they move into managment positions

an engineering degree + an MBA = more jobs + money than a guy with an MIS degree

[Hartmann]

majors are meaningless though, it all depends on how dedicated the student is

Totally agree.

[Seeker]

Totally agree.

yeah just from being in the job market for a year i've seen people without college degrees 10 times smarter than someone with one, and vice versa, just depends on the person

[Hartmann]

instead of working my way into managment positions working for other people, i'll be starting my own company working for myself sometime within the coming years

also, engineering students whether it be CS, EE, ME, ChE, or whatever usually get hired on at a company and then have that comany pay for them to go back to school and get an MBA, then they move into managment positions

Starting my own company is the plan. I was just stating that MIS people have the business background to grow within a company. Ever try talking to an engineer? It's freaking impossible, even for me (I'm generalizing but you know what I mean).

Engineers aren't the only ones to get paid to go back to school. Every job offer I've received comes with the incentive to return to school to get whatever degree I choose, even if it isn't an MBA, though those are encouraged.

[impala454]

Finding a job has nothing to do with your degree. Landing a job does. You'll have a much easier time landing a job as CS than MIS. My boss has an MIS degree and is also the DBA and doesn't know much about programming other than SQL stuff. When we hire a new person, even him (the MIS degree) says hell no we're only looking for CS.

CS is a much harder degree, and employers know that. Either way though it just gets your foot in the door. Once you're in it doesn't matter, except the CS people make fun of the MIS people

[Hartmann]

Finding a job has nothing to do with your degree.  Landing a job does.  You'll have a much easier time landing a job as CS than MIS.  My boss has an MIS degree and is also the DBA and doesn't know much about programming other than SQL stuff.  When we hire a new person, even him (the MIS degree) says hell no we're only looking for CS.

CS is a much harder degree, and employers know that.  Either way though it just gets your foot in the door.  Once you're in it doesn't matter, except the CS people make fun of the MIS people

I guess I'm just odd then because from experience it feels like I have learned more than the CS majors I've talked to.

I had to present at some CS class last semester about cryptography and multi-key hashes and most of the class looked at me dumbfounded and at the end I actually had a few of them come up to me and ask me what a public and private key were

It's all a matter of opinion. I think that if you want to get into networking then MIS may be the way to go, but I suggest you go talk to professors in both departments and lay it out for them. Don't talk to the advisors, they know very little about the majors besides what classes you have to take.

CS is harder because of the engineering classes? I can believe that, but then again, MIS majors have to take finance, accounting, and 3 semesters of economics, the focus is a little different and it's all in your opinion of what's hard. I know some very smart people who can't figure out finance for the life of them...

This whole thread is kind of a testament to what the one problem with CS majors is, the "holier than thou" attitude. I don't have a problem with it, y'all are smart folks, but in certain environments it pisses people off.

[Seeker]

there's smart people in both mis and cs

[Spectatrix]

I had to present at some CS class last semester about cryptography and multi-key hashes and most of the class looked at me dumbfounded and at the end I actually had a few of them come up to me and ask me what a public and private key were

WTF? Even I know about public & private keys and I'm a freakin' M.E. I've had a couple of C++ classes, but that's it and we certainly didn't cover cryptography.

[Dogmeat]

You must have slept through the cryptography portion of Materialsa and Mechanics Lab ...

[impala454]

I guess I'm just odd then because from experience it feels like I have learned more than the CS majors I've talked to.

I had to present at some CS class last semester about cryptography and multi-key hashes and most of the class looked at me dumbfounded and at the end I actually had a few of them come up to me and ask me what a public and private key were 

It's all a matter of opinion. I think that if you want to get into networking then MIS may be the way to go, but I suggest you go talk to professors in both departments and lay it out for them. Don't talk to the advisors, they know very little about the majors besides what classes you have to take.

CS is harder because of the engineering classes? I can believe that, but then again, MIS majors have to take finance, accounting, and 3 semesters of economics, the focus is a little different and it's all in your opinion of what's hard. I know some very smart people who can't figure out finance for the life of them...

This whole thread is kind of a testament to what the one problem with CS majors is, the "holier than thou" attitude. I don't have a problem with it, y'all are smart folks, but in certain environments it pisses people off.

Well I wouldn't call it a holier than thou attitude. It's more like CS people get defensive when MIS people trivialize CS like "MIS is just CS without engineering". When I work my ass off to be one of the 20 out of 100 that passed my calc based phyics course, and then have a MIS major comparing that to some finance class, you could imagine people getting defensive.

Then compare the MIS classes where you learn about databases, SQL, web pages, etc to CS where you have classes where you design a cpu from scratch, have automata theory that would drive a person insane, design and implement your own operating system, etc etc. Now don't get me wrong, the web page/sql/database type stuff does exist in CS, but it's an assumed knowledge and not really a class.

It's not a personal attack on yours or any other MIS major's intelligence, but CS is definitely a much harder major.

[Hartmann]

Well I wouldn't call it a holier than thou attitude. It's more like CS people get defensive when MIS people trivialize CS like "MIS is just CS without engineering". When I work my ass off to be one of the 20 out of 100 that passed my calc based phyics course, and then have a MIS major comparing that to some finance class, you could imagine people getting defensive.

Then compare the MIS classes where you learn about databases, SQL, web pages, etc to CS where you have classes where you design a cpu from scratch, have automata theory that would drive a person insane, design and implement your own operating system, etc etc. Now don't get me wrong, the web page/sql/database type stuff does exist in CS, but it's an assumed knowledge and not really a class.

It's not a personal attack on yours or any other MIS major's intelligence, but CS is definitely a much harder major.

I didn't want to be a CS major for the reasons you pointed out. I don't care about writing an OS or designing a CPU, it's not for me. I really like writing support applications. I like analyzing a problem, finding the business motivation behind improving it, and then implementing it.

I understand what you mean about MIS people lowering the difficulty of CS to something they can compare to. MIS people have different concerns though, it goes beyond web pages, which we don't even really touch, I think that's a Mass Comm thing now. We focus on analysis, design, and project management. It really comes down to CS and MIS majors working together, depending on the company.

We have one class in Databases and SQL, but a lot of our curriculum focuses on Object Oriented stuff and the MVC model.

[Dogmeat]

Soooooooooooooooo in other words, MIS is exactly like the analogy I made. It's engineering vs. engineering technology.

It's the difference between a guy who works on a car and the guy who designs the car

MIS by everything I've seen is just a fancy-shcmancy network admin job....

[Hartmann]

MIS by everything I've seen is just a fancy-shcmancy network admin job....

No.

It's not like the guy who designs the car and the guy who works on the car at all.

MIS people design software as well, just a different type. CS majors design an OS, a VOIP protocol etc. MIS majors design business software. None of the jobs I have been offered have anything to do with network administration, at all. All of them are Java or .NET jobs in which I would be doing programming and consulting. CS majors can put a VAX system in place but they (generalization) can't create a custom software solution without learning accounting and understanding business processes, that's why we're around.

So in other words, you're wrong.

[Dogmeat]

So in other words you write programs that don't require any real math involved in them

[Seeker]

i see accounting and business processes as something that everyone with common sense should know, don't really need a class on it

[Hartmann]

So in other words you write programs that don't require any real math involved in them

No, when I worked for Shell I wrote plenty of code that did bit math and oil/gas physics and the funny thing about that job was that they specifically did not want a CS major.


And Lance, you'd think so, but it goes beyond the basics of revenue, profits, etc.

[Dogmeat]

I actually wish that universities would dump the bullshit general education requirements they make engineering majors take like anthroploogy and such and make us take more economics classes. Engineering econ, even though it was grossly simplified and easy, I think should have been the beginning of a series of econ classes. I mean seriously, we go through all this basic engineering shit but *EVERYTHING* we will EVER do as an engineer is completley goverened by economics, which even after getting an A in that class I still feel like I know very little about....


I dunno I mean I guess that's why they have the thing called "industrial engineering", but I still think that's an aspect that's reall overlooked in 4-year undergrad engineering degrees.

[hodge]

the issue with CS is it has no clear path. lance is right, you'll learn about how to design circuits, logic boards, write your own languages, understand the fundamentals of all languages, etc etc... but never have a clear "path" you are striving for. its like a movie where they try to cram 8hrs of story to 2hrs of screentime. its like you get a hint at what they REALLY want you to learn but never really expand upon the idea. combined with the fact all the teachers are there to research...

and yea, its hard as balls. 120 undergrads with 12 graduating each semester last i saw.

[chook]

The CS degree Hodge? Its got a pretty high attrition rate, the highest one is the EE/CS if you count just dropping one.

[chook]

looking at what you said, i'd go MIS. But business classes could be your bane and you have to deal with some really stupid shit from the business school before you get into the better classes.

[Seeker]

the business school pissed me off at tech and i wasn't even in the business school, so i can only imagine what they do to actual students

[Dogmeat]

the issue with CS is it has no clear path. lance is right, you'll learn about how to design circuits, logic boards, write your own languages, understand the fundamentals of all languages, etc etc... but never have a clear "path" you are striving for. its like a movie where they try to cram 8hrs of story to 2hrs of screentime. its like you get a hint at what they REALLY want you to learn but never really expand upon the idea. combined with the fact all the teachers are there to research...

and yea, its hard as balls. 120 undergrads with 12 graduating each semester last i saw.

Mechanical is engineering is the same way ... It's so broad there's no clear path.

I know ME's do everything from analyze avalanches to sell insurance

[Seeker]

if you really want to be successful do what every ceo of every fortune 500 company has done, drop out of college

[FORSAKENR320]

if you really want to be successful do what every ceo of every fortune 500 company has done, drop out of college

fuck their way to the top?

[Seeker]

fuck their way to the top?

if they're females then yeah that's what they did, the males though - they're just business smart

[impala454]

yeah if you don't want to be a programmer definitely don't go CS.

[danwashere]

Most jobs that go for MIS candidates won't take a CS person because they're hiring specifically for the business side. They want people who can build systems and then manage people. You almost never see a cs major as a program manager because they simply don't know anything but code. They sit in their cubicles speaking clingon to themselves. If i were writing an operating system i'd want a cs person. If i'm creating some new system that deals with the kernel i'd want a cs person but if you want business critical applications which are well designed to integrate with different departments inside a company you want someone who both understands those departments and can bridge the gap between them. If you want to be the grunt programmer for someone and never have a chance to advance be a cs major. If you want to eventually manage all the cs majors go mis. HAHA. bitches.

[Seeker]

how's that job at macdonald's treatin' ya dan

[Rocky]

none of it matters unless you have an opportunity to get your foot in the door.


It doesn't matter which you pick - if you can score an internship, a job with solid "related experience," or know people who can hook you up - that's whats gonna get your foot in the door of a career after graduation the easiest.

[danwashere]

see cs majors can't even spell McDonalds right...

[Spectatrix]

see cs majors can't even spell McDonalds right...

You didn't spell Klingon right.

[pebkac]

see cs majors can't even spell McDonalds right...

pwnd

[danwashere]

You didn't spell Klingon right.

lol sorry... see... i could never do cs...

[Seeker]

i'm oh so sorry that i don't frequent mcdonald's enough to know the a is silent, forgive me for not being an expert at the name of the company you work for

[pebkac]

I think I'm going to do MIS. Anyone know what the GPA to get into the business school is these days?

[Mommy]

I think I'm going to do MIS. Anyone know what the GPA to get into the business school is these days?

2.75

[Seeker]

lawl

[GOB]

do NOT do mis

[pebkac]

do NOT do mis

Care to elaborate?

[Seeker]

honestly, if you want to do networking, cs is the route

if you elaborate more on what you want to do maybe we can help you more

[Seeker]

scratch that, i'd just buy a bunch of networking books and read up, forget cs or mis

[Billy]

Care to elaborate?

If you aren't a good and dedicated student, don't do CS. You're probably best off leaving Tech and going to a technical school if you want to learn all about networking and just that (and possibly some need-to-know related fields). Technical schools like TSTC are actually pretty good. You learn just what you need to know and they hook you up with an occupation. In many cases, you learn more from a school like TSTC, because you're very specialized. They're also much cheaper and much faster. But despite it's advantages in the work force, these types of schools do have their drawbacks.

You might want to do some research and weigh the pros and cons to what you want in life. You might find that you don't really want to do either CS nor MIS.

[pebkac]

honestly, if you want to do networking, cs is the route

if you elaborate more on what you want to do maybe we can help you more

Honestly, I'm not exactly sure what I'd like to do. I'd like something that would be versatile and allow me a lot of options in the future, and I'd rather do something more involved than coding all day.

Personally, I'm more attracted to MIS because I'd rather be able to do things from a business perspective, not to mention it would be more helpful should I decide to get an MBA.

On top of that, CS sounds like a fairly difficult major to get down. Since I have a full time job, getting a degree wouldn't be as easy a task for me (if turnover is what you guys say). Not to mention that things in engineering just don't interest me.

[Seeker]

CS covers a broad range of areas, with a CS degree you can do pretty much anything if it involves a computer (including what MIS majors do) and you don't have to get a job doing nothing but programming if you don't want to, there's plenty of other opportunities. I hardly do any coding at all, I design the shit and then that gets passed down to others to do the grunt work. With CS you do have a lot of options and it's versatile. When you start out at a company they usually ask you if you want to take the engineering track or the business/management track and they groom you according to what you want to accomplish at the company. Yeah a CS degree is hard to get though.

On the other hand, it sounds to me like you'd rather be on the business side and if I were you I'd just get a blanket MBA (easy) then you could do anything business related, leaves you options and it's versatile. Plus you'd have a better chance of succeeding if you start your own business. Never work for someone else making them rich, work for yourself making yourself rich.

[woody]

what exactly do you want to do?

you said computers and networking

you want to do programming, network admin, security admin, deskside, server admin, dba, etc....

if you want to do something with computers, shit a sec. for a ceo uses word, excel, and outlook...that's using a computer. how about a little bit more details?

[chook]

Inretrospect I'd stay away from both of these fields. I am trying to goto Med School, and i enjoy that much more, CS or MIS is for a certain type of people, and much of those are disfrancised or unsatisfied with their choices and rat on the other about it.

[GOB]

if you're looking for a job, go with cs


if you're looking for a job out of the ba, get your masters in accounting

[pebkac]

Inretrospect I'd stay away from both of these fields. I am trying to goto Med School, and i enjoy that much more, CS or MIS is for a certain type of people, and much of those are disfrancised or unsatisfied with their choices and rat on the other about it.

I'm beginning to agree with you on that one.

[Hartmann]

Inretrospect I'd stay away from both of these fields. I am trying to goto Med School, and i enjoy that much more, CS or MIS is for a certain type of people, and much of those are disfrancised or unsatisfied with their choices and rat on the other about it.

I am going to assume that you are generalizing... I am very satisfied and happy with my choice.

[Seeker]

me too

[chook]

When i took the internship, the people who were good at what they did seemed the happiest while the guys that sucked were pissed off and had to prove something all the time. But guess that is anywhere

[impala454]

Most jobs that go for MIS candidates won't take a CS person because they're hiring specifically for the business side. They want people who can build systems and then manage people. You almost never see a cs major as a program manager because they simply don't know anything but code. They sit in their cubicles speaking clingon to themselves. If i were writing an operating system i'd want a cs person. If i'm creating some new system that deals with the kernel i'd want a cs person but if you want business critical applications which are well designed to integrate with different departments inside a company you want someone who both understands those departments and can bridge the gap between them. If you want to be the grunt programmer for someone and never have a chance to advance be a cs major. If you want to eventually manage all the cs majors go mis. HAHA. bitches.

bitter much dan?

We have a couple MIS guys that work here, and they know what they're doing, but they've also been here for 10+ years, and really don't do anything more complicated than simple perl scripts or elaborate SQL stored procs. As far as business stuff goes.. yeah we have a CFO with an MBA and a few other business type degree people that take care of that. I don't know of many companies that call down all their MIS guys when they're discussing financial items.

Oh and yeah, there's no "business critical" application that only a person with an MIS degree can write. Gimme a break.

Rocky had it right... the degree does nothing more than get you in the door. And I can tell ya, CS will have a lot more doors open to them.

[woody]

just become a stripper & out bank them all

[Spectatrix]

Every day that I'm in my current job I realize while getting an MIS degree how little I actually learned. I've gained more marketability just from the work experience I have gotten at the BA and now with Perot Systems.

Honestly, the same goes for a lot of degrees. What you need to know varies from job to job -- the degree gives you the foundation of understanding, but you learn a LOT on top of that in each job.

[Deviant Deity]

Every day that I'm in my current job I realize while getting an MIS degree how little I actually learned.  I've gained more marketability just from the work experience I have gotten at the BA and now with Perot Systems.

Isn't that true for almost any job/degree combination?

Outside of vocabulary and brushing a few general topics, nothing you ever do in college will amount to what you learn through experience.