tips for christians when they debate atheists Options

[Seeker]

http://www.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Chr...-atheists?hl=en

haha, i like number 2

2. More than likely, they are smarter than you are. This can be difficult to come to grips with, but it does appear to be true and is a claim that is actually supported by the Bible (1 Corinthians 1:18-31)

[impala454]

Tip for atheists who feel they must debate Christians' beliefs:

"Get a life"

[The Fanatic]

Tips for christians who want to debate atheists

Just don't do it. Atheists do not believe in god and quoting the bible to prove your point is illogical and purposeless.

[Mommy]

god dammit... are we seriously gonna have another one of THESE threads. both sides need to STFU already

[FORSAKENR320]

god dammit... are we seriously gonna have another one of THESE threads. both sides need to STFU already

shut up whore

[The Fanatic]

[Hartmann]

Well, I'll just speak in reference to the verse cited by Lance.

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."[a]

20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

First, it takes some serious imagination to twist that into what is suggested by the link. Second, 1 Corinthians was written as a response by Paul to letters written to him about life as a Christian. The Corinthians were believers but as time went on they began to change religious beliefs to suit their needs, eventually they realized how mistaken they were and turned to Paul for guidance. The above verse is Paul's summation of how he comes to them (not to boast or to be the wisest, but to share the Gospel).

The verses leading up:

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into[b] the name of Paul? 14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Not trying to convert anyone or anything like that...

[Testm0nkey]

the Christian bible is the most boring religious text ever created. through some pizazz into the thing

at least taoism has depth

[Mommy]

the Christian bible is the most boring religious text ever created. through some pizazz into the thing

at least taoism has depth

read the song of solomon. that book is interesting. I think the Bible is neat, but only in the King James version

[FORSAKENR320]

read the song of solomon. that book is interesting. I think the Bible is neat, but only in the King James version

the old school shit is more hardcore

some of those translated dead sea scrolls are the shit

[impala454]

the Christian bible is the most boring religious text ever created.

since you've read so many I'm sure. and no, having mommy and daddy make you go to sunday school when you were a child doesn't mean you've read the bible.

[Mommy]

Judging from what little I know of the Cathryn, she probably has actually read the Bible in part

[Hartmann]

read the song of solomon. that book is interesting. I think the Bible is neat, but only in the King James version

I personally enjoy Ecclesiastes the most. Solomon writing about what it's like to have power, fortune, wisdom, and women and how it all amounts to nothing.

[2wolUTT]

I like to read sports non-fiction.

[Mommy]

I personally enjoy Ecclesiastes the most. Solomon writing about what it's like to have power, fortune, wisdom, and women and how it all amounts to nothing.

Ive honestly never read too much of Ecclesisastes. Im gonna have to do that. I like Hebrews a lot and 1 Corinthians and some of the early books in the Old Testement over the different judges and whatnot.

[Testm0nkey]

since you've read so many I'm sure. and no, having mommy and daddy make you go to sunday school when you were a child doesn't mean you've read the bible.

my parents never forced us to go to sunday school or church. my mom made a joke about being engulfed in flames upon entering the church for my nieces baptism. shes one of the spawns of satan.

christian stories more boring than other religions' text:
take the creation story for example. god created blah blah blah in so and so amount of time or a GIANT ice ox lived in a world divided between fire and ice and licked a giant frost giant out of an ice block who later spawned into gods which then killed the ice giant, cut him up in pieces and threw brains and entrails into the air to make the world on his corpse

[Seeker]

the Christian bible is the most boring religious text ever created. through some pizazz into the thing

at least taoism has depth

you should look into the apocrypha... they're books that were originally included in the bible but were thrown out in the early years because they support reincarnation and other far-east-style ideas

[impala454]

my parents never forced us to go to sunday school or church. my mom made a joke about being engulfed in flames upon entering the church for my nieces baptism. shes one of the spawns of satan.

christian stories more boring than other religions' text:
take the creation story for example. god created blah blah blah in so and so amount of time or a GIANT ice ox lived in a world divided between fire and ice and licked a giant frost giant out of an ice block who later spawned into gods which then killed the ice giant, cut him up in pieces and threw brains and entrails into the air to make the world on his corpse

frost giant you say?


Seriously though, do you believe the story more because it has fantastic creatures?

[2wolUTT]

Did anyone ever see that old horror movie, "Jack Frost"? Had a young Shannon Elizabeth give a strip tease in it. Then the evil snow man fucked her with his carrot and she died.

[Hartmann]

you should look into the apocrypha... they're books that were originally included in the bible but were thrown out in the early years because they support reincarnation and other far-east-style ideas

There are numerous reasons why certain texts were not included in the canons. For Old Testament books, ex. The book of Enoch, the book was used to try and explain something referenced earlier in text yet did more harm than good (ie. the book of Enoch tried to explain how Cain had a wife).

In the New Testament certain books were excluded because they were obviously written after they were said to have been (the Apocryphan of James, The Gospel of Thomas).

[blaarg]

this thread makes me gag...

I like to read VALUABLE literature.

[Hartmann]

this thread makes me gag...

I like to read VALUABLE literature.

Yeah, LoTR and self-help books are valuable

[Oasis]

I like to read sports non-fiction.

Only worthwhile post in this thread

[blaarg]

Yeah, LoTR and self-help books are valuable

Wow, considering my last post on the "what are you watching/reading" thread was Ulysses by Joyce, but LOTR and self-help books are a close second...

...I've got to thinking, it seems like the bible is a combination of the two...

[Hartmann]

Wow, considering my last post on the "what are you watching/reading" thread was Ulysses by Joyce, but LOTR and self-help books are a close second...

...I've got to thinking, it seems like the bible is a combination of the two...

I wasn't making fun or anything, I just thought it would be a funny line.

You are welcome to your opinion, but I very much disagree that the Bible is a self-help book for a simple reason, it clearly states you can't help yourself.

[pebkac]

http://www.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Chr...-atheists?hl=en

haha, i like number 2

You know, this post wouldn't normally be that funny, but after reading through that... I think the list is actually SERIOUS.

[Spectatrix]

You know, this post wouldn't normally be that funny, but after reading through that... I think the list is actually SERIOUS.

I couldn't decide whether I thought it was serious or not.

[TetraGrammaton C...]

Listen, you don't know the history of psychiatry, I do.

religious arguments always remind me of tom-cruise-type crazies.

sometimes it seems like enlightenment writers like Paine, Voltaire and Hume did very little for long term views of religion.

king james was a terrible king by christian standards, at least at the time.

neither group should have members debating someone who does not want to debate.

the point that Locke (religious and conservative) and many others make is that it is necessary to constantly challenge and question your beliefs in order to be fully developed as a religious person. i.e. it is necessary that logic and faith interact.

but if you do not want to debate, the answer is much more simplistic and requires only avoidance.
people who claim the first but fail to adhere to the latter have other agendas which supersede their proclaimed disinterest.


in closing, rub-a-dub.

[FORSAKENR320]

in closing, rub-a-dub.

2 men in a tub?

[The Fanatic]

the point that Locke (religious and conservative) and many others make is that it is necessary to constantly challenge and question your beliefs in order to be fully developed as a religious person. i.e. it is necessary that logic and faith interact.

Unfortunately, most people are dogmatic zealots when it concerns their ideology of religion/ non-religion.

[impala454]

the point that Locke (religious and conservative) and many others make is that it is necessary to constantly challenge and question your beliefs in order to be fully developed as a religious person. i.e. it is necessary that logic and faith interact.

there's a difference between questioning your own beliefs and having some jackasses make a hobby out of following you around trying to disprove you.

[Mommy]

I believe it was John Stuart Mill who said that beliefs lose their effectiveness if they are not challenged. Now, that being said, you Christian haters on this board have seriously overstepped the line between challenging the beliefs and nagging and ranting about Christians. Who cares? Does it matter to you what Impala or anyone on here believes religiously? It shouldn't because it is not like he is starting threads that say "repent of your sins and follow Christ, lest ye go to hell." He believes what suites his life. I believe what suites my life. You believe what suites your life. Must we constantly attack Christian believers on here?

[blaarg]

you Christian haters on this board have seriously overstepped the line between challenging the beliefs and nagging and ranting about Christians. Who cares?

I thought that the boards were meant for nagging and ranting.

I guess I've been mistaken...

[TetraGrammaton C...]

there's a difference between questioning your own beliefs and having some jackasses make a hobby out of following you around trying to disprove you.

right, but where are these people? you have to (at least to some degree) present yourself to them. they are not banging on your door. most people who openly engage this sort of debate (even if they claim to have a particular distaste for it) obviously wish to contend, otherwise they would simply ignore these "jackasses."

This post has been edited by TetraGrammaton Cleric: Feb 5 2008, 06:58 PM

[TetraGrammaton C...]

I believe it was John Stuart Mill who said that beliefs lose their effectiveness if they are not challenged. Now, that being said, you Christian haters on this board have seriously overstepped the line between challenging the beliefs and nagging and ranting about Christians. Who cares? Does it matter to you what Impala or anyone on here believes religiously? It shouldn't because it is not like he is starting threads that say "repent of your sins and follow Christ, lest ye go to hell." He believes what suites his life. I believe what suites my life. You believe what suites your life. Must we constantly attack Christian believers on here?

yes, you will find john locke had a great influence on john stuart mill, which is the vein i was referencing earlier.

i think that people on both sides of every issue discussed on this board overstep their bounds.

i believe that you will find most of these attacks are more aimed at specific people rather than the ideologies as a whole.

but some people on here honestly wish to engage people of different belief structures in intelligent and civilized conversation in order to better understand each other.

[Hartmann]

the point that Locke (religious and conservative) and many others make is that it is necessary to constantly challenge and question your beliefs in order to be fully developed as a religious person. i.e. it is necessary that logic and faith interact.

I agree with this to a point, but I don't necessarily challenge and question my beliefs, I simply attempt to learn as much about them from new angles.