EXCUSE ME???? WTF HILLARY?!?!?!? Options

[Dogmeat]

http://www.newsmax.com/politics/campaign_r...2/03/69711.html

WASHINGTON -- Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to garnish the wages of workers who refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.

So the truth [that everyone has already known] comes out!

Prime example of her and her socialist agenda.

Excuse me bitch, garnish my wages to pay for health care for a crack addicts? I don't think so.

[Spectatrix]

That is pretty fucking socialist. I am not a fan of mandatory health insurance.

[Testm0nkey]

so then people will be motivated to pay into their own health coverage. because everyone should have it

[Dogmeat]

so then people will be motivated to pay into their own health coverage. because everyone should have it

I don't need to be taxed even more than I already am because a bunch of fucking whinos can't afford health insurance because they're too busy smoking crack.

[Hartmann]

Robin Hillary!

[2wolUTT]

I drink your milkshake!

[Mommy]

I don't need to be taxed even more than I already am because a bunch of fucking whinos can't afford health insurance because they're too busy smoking crack.

except you already have health insurance, right? So, your wages wouldn't be garnished. Everyone should have health insurance.

[FORSAKENR320]

i kinda agree, but only after it's put in perspective.

your wages aren't being garnished to pay for someone elses health insurance, just your own.

i suppose i can live with this as long as i'm not paying for someone else


of course, i disagree on the principal we already have too many fucking people in this world, let them die off without med insurance..... and the LAST thing to poor minority needs is an easier and less expensive way to breed.....

[Psykopath]

i kinda agree, but only after it's put in perspective.

your wages aren't being garnished to pay for someone elses health insurance, just your own.

i suppose i can live with this as long as i'm not paying for someone else
of course, i disagree on the principal we already have too many fucking people in this world, let them die off without med insurance..... and the LAST thing to poor minority needs is an easier and less expensive way to breed.....

...and I thought Social Darwinism dies in the 30's.

[FORSAKENR320]

...and I thought Social Darwinism dies in the 30's.

just because the idiots CAN and DO find ways to reproduce, doesn't mean we should encourage it...

[Spectatrix]

so then people will be motivated to pay into their own health coverage. because everyone should have it

except you already have health insurance, right? So, your wages wouldn't be garnished. Everyone should have health insurance.

That is not something that you (or anyone else) should be deciding for another adult. It's bad enough that we "help" people with a nigh-useless social security program.

[Mommy]

Umm.... ok. What do you think happens when someone goes to a county hospital and can't pay? Tax payers eventually pay for it. This way, at least they are feeding into the pot. It's mostly lower income families that don't have health insurance. Most upper class ones do. It's not deciding for another adult in my opinion. It's caring for our society.

[Hartmann]

Umm.... ok. What do you think happens when someone goes to a county hospital and can't pay? Tax payers eventually pay for it. This way, at least they are feeding into the pot. It's mostly lower income families that don't have health insurance. Most upper class ones do. It's not deciding for another adult in my opinion. It's caring for our society.

Not really. The way I understand it working is that the hospital eats the cost. They bill the patient and when they don't receive payments, they continue to bill. Over time, the cost is just absorbed by the hospital. Tax payers only pay for public hospitals that are open to people who don't have insurance (University Medical Center), while places like Covenant require health insurance (last time I checked).

People can pay the hospital over time, it doesn't have to be lump sums, just small payments. Instead, most know the loophole that the hospital cannot require payment, and therefore don't pay. I asked UMC what my payment plan would be when I had my allergic reaction. They told me my payments could be as low as $8/month. Unless you're homeless, you should be able to afford $8/month

[Spectatrix]

Not really. The way I understand it working is that the hospital eats the cost. They bill the patient and when they don't receive payments, they continue to bill. Over time, the cost is just absorbed by the hospital.

Or sometimes they turn it over to a collection agency.

[Spectatrix]

It's mostly lower income families that don't have health insurance. Most upper class ones do. It's not deciding for another adult in my opinion. It's caring for our society.

It's not the lower income families that people like Hillary want in their universal health insurance programs. They want healthy 20-somethings (mainly men) who will use the system very little.

[Seeker]

if she pulled that shit she'd be assassinated in no time flat

[Mommy]

Not really. The way I understand it working is that the hospital eats the cost. They bill the patient and when they don't receive payments, they continue to bill. Over time, the cost is just absorbed by the hospital. Tax payers only pay for public hospitals that are open to people who don't have insurance (University Medical Center), while places like Covenant require health insurance (last time I checked).

People can pay the hospital over time, it doesn't have to be lump sums, just small payments. Instead, most know the loophole that the hospital cannot require payment, and therefore don't pay. I asked UMC what my payment plan would be when I had my allergic reaction. They told me my payments could be as low as $8/month. Unless you're homeless, you should be able to afford $8/month

I was speaking concerning county hospitals...which are funded through tax payer dollars. Yes, they will issue statements to the patient, but in places like Houston, Detroit, etc that have a high instance of low income residents, the county tax payers absorb the cost.

[impala454]

County Hospitals do not receive some check for unpaid medical bills. They simply get to write them off as tax deductions.

[Mommy]

County Hospitals do not receive some check for unpaid medical bills. They simply get to write them off as tax deductions.

ok... and who ends up paying for that deduction? tax payers. Jesus people

[impala454]

uh... how do you pay for a deduction?

[Spectatrix]

ok... and who ends up paying for that deduction? tax payers. Jesus people

The deduction just reduces their tax bill. I guess in a round-about way, that could result in overall taxes being raised, which would come out of the taxpayers' pockets, but still...

[Mommy]

Do you not understand a system of debits and credits? Honestly, do you think that in cities with high poverty levels are going to be able to do deduct all that from their taxes they owe and still come out ahead? County hospitals are known for being HUGE burdens on tax payers in border cities, low income areas, etc. It's nonsense to think that the money people dont pay is going to be made up for by those that do pay. Ok, yeah, in areas like Plano and shit, yeah. Detroit? Chicago? DC? Houston? St Louis? NOOOOOOOOOOOO

[pebkac]

County Hospitals do not receive some check for unpaid medical bills. They simply get to write them off as tax deductions.

They don't even get that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMTALA#Cost_p...es_on_hospitals

Since the hospitals are usually funded by some government entity, this means higher taxes for that government entity. Either that or they're paid for in the form of passing those costs on to people who do have insurance or assistance from a government program.

Either way you look at it, it results in higher healthcare costs. And yes, if you do have insurance, you are paying for these people whether you like it or not. Damn socialized medicine.

[pysex]

america was not meant to be a socialist state...


so stop fucking thinking it should



thank you

[pysex]

so then people will be motivated to pay into their own health coverage. because everyone should have it

everyone should have health insurance but people shouldn't have to pay for others




god dammit i fucking hate socialism

[impala454]

They don't even get that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMTALA#Cost_p...es_on_hospitals

Since the hospitals are usually funded by some government entity, this means higher taxes for that government entity. Either that or they're paid for in the form of passing those costs on to people who do have insurance or assistance from a government program.

Either way you look at it, it results in higher healthcare costs. And yes, if you do have insurance, you are paying for these people whether you like it or not. Damn socialized medicine.

Your link is about healthcare providers. I.e. doctors & their practices. Not hospitals.

If you want to look at it that way, then you can say that someone who gets in a wreck costs me tax dollars. You can say that someone who throws gum out the window costs me tax dollars.

But any entity that takes tax deductions does not directly result in my taxes increasing. Yes large portions of medical bills go unpaid, but those unpaid bills are tax deductible. Nowhere in your link does it say otherwise.

[pysex]

post++



just to let everyone know if we continue moving towards this socialist agenda and thinking everyone deserves everything...


then we will no longer be America


they are already debating over some pretty major changes in our government....

has anyone heard of the "North American Union"?

they want to create a standardized currency for Canada, the U.S., and Mexico....and create free and open trade between all 3 countries...

it would be like the EU but worse....because its fucking mexico




That is worthy of a revolution. And don't think it won't happen. There are plenty of level headed sane Americans that would revolt against these assfucks who think Juanita and Juan deserve just as much as I do.

[pebkac]

Your link is about healthcare providers. I.e. doctors & their practices. Not hospitals.

If you want to look at it that way, then you can say that someone who gets in a wreck costs me tax dollars. You can say that someone who throws gum out the window costs me tax dollars.

But any entity that takes tax deductions does not directly result in my taxes increasing. Yes large portions of medical bills go unpaid, but those unpaid bills are tax deductible. Nowhere in your link does it say otherwise.

...

Most hospitals are not-for-profit groups of some kind. This means they're tax exempt to begin with.

post++
just to let everyone know if we continue moving towards this socialist agenda and thinking everyone deserves everything...
then we will no longer be America
they are already debating over some pretty major changes in our government....

has anyone heard of the "North American Union"?

they want to create a standardized currency for Canada, the U.S., and Mexico....and create free and open trade between all 3 countries...

it would be like the EU but worse....because its fucking mexico
That is worthy of a revolution. And don't think it won't happen. There are plenty of level headed sane Americans that would revolt against these assfucks who think Juanita and Juan deserve just as much as I do.

Nice post. All fear-mongering and no logic.

[impala454]

I'm not sure about your backing for that claim... but even so, your bills aren't just for the actual hospital. In fact, unless you have an actual hospital stay, most of the medical bills you end up with are for the doctor you ended up seeing.

[pysex]

...

Most hospitals are not-for-profit groups of some kind. This means they're tax exempt to begin with.
Nice post. All fear-mongering and no logic.

Watch it happen.

[pebkac]

I'm not sure about your backing for that claim... but even so, your bills aren't just for the actual hospital. In fact, unless you have an actual hospital stay, most of the medical bills you end up with are for the doctor you ended up seeing.

Every time I've been to an ER, the bill was to the hospital.

Even so, your criticism of the link I posted above was that it applied to doctors & their practices, not hospitals.

[impala454]

you didn't see a doctor for free, trust me.

[Mommy]

you didn't see a doctor for free, trust me.

there is a bill from the hospital, and a bill from the doctor... if you had something special done. A lot of time, ER docs are included in the ER fees... because they work for the ER. When I went to the hospital in August, I got a $4000 bill from the hospital and $3000 bill for the MRI machine use or something stupid like that

You don't get it because you have lived in a richer area all the time. A HUGE issue in El Paso is our county hospital Thomason Hospital. They are never able to meet budget and always are having to ask for the county to raise taxes to get the hospital out of debt. Why? because a majority of El Pasoans are not insured, and we have a high level of people living below the poverty line.

[The Fanatic]

instead of forcing everyone to pay into a health care system the government needs to reduce waste and reform the broken HMO for profit system. Health care should not be about pure profit. It is time to take all the pharmaceutical commercials off of the television and heavily regulate/ dismantle the HMOs, replacing them an affordable and accessible insurance that every American can afford. The main problem with our health care system is that it is geared toward treatment instead of prevention, for obvious reasons but that is the problem. Regulation can institute some of the good socialist principles while at the same time keeping the system in private hands.


I owe hospitals upwards of 15,000 dollars and it would have been nice to have health insurance. Oh well, it's not like I have the money to pay them anytime soon.

This post has been edited by The Fanatic: Feb 4 2008, 01:54 PM

[Testm0nkey]

people were complaining about illegal immigrants getting treated in hospitals and US taxpayers have to foot the bill before. now they say US tax payers dont carry the brunt of unpaid/uninsured medical expenses?

theres nothing worse then someone who doesnt have insurance (even though they can afford it) seeking medical treatment. if you are one of those people, go by your own actions and dont ever see a doctor/get treatment, have your child in a hospital etc. everyone gets sick

unless you are perfectly healthy or paying like an ungodly amount of medical insurance/covering 100% on your own, you are costing the average person some amount of change.

edit: i totally agree with taking drug ads off the television/media. the US is one of the last countries to even allow that

and hospitals do their damn hardest to not "absorb the cost" they will go to the ends of the earth before they do that.

[Psykopath]

edit: i totally agree with taking drug ads off the television/media. the US is one of the last countries to even allow that

Thirded.



I'm tired of all the hard-on pills being advertised every 5 minutes.

[Spectatrix]

Thirded.
I'm tired of all the hard-on pills being advertised every 5 minutes.

I think this is something almost all of us can agree on.

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Feb 4 2008, 05:04 PM

[Mommy]

ya'll need to quit watching the Playboy Channel

[The Fanatic]

theres nothing worse then someone who doesnt have insurance (even though they can afford it) seeking medical treatment. if you are one of those people, go by your own actions and dont ever see a doctor/get treatment, have your child in a hospital etc. everyone gets sick

Who in there right mind would do this? If I could afford insurance I would purchase it (actually my new job may offer my insurance in a few months yay!!!)

[Mommy]

Who in there right mind would do this? If I could afford insurance I would purchase it (actually my new job may offer my insurance in a few months yay!!!)

apparently a lot of healthy young men don't buy insurance.

[The Fanatic]

Not me, anything could happen even if you are healthy. Sometimes you are in the wrong place at the wrong time and sometimes that happens to be in the path of a TTU Citibus while walking to class...

[Mommy]

exactly

[impala454]

there is a bill from the hospital, and a bill from the doctor... if you had something special done. A lot of time, ER docs are included in the ER fees... because they work for the ER. When I went to the hospital in August, I got a $4000 bill from the hospital and $3000 bill for the MRI machine use or something stupid like that

You don't get it because you have lived in a richer area all the time. A HUGE issue in El Paso is our county hospital Thomason Hospital. They are never able to meet budget and always are having to ask for the county to raise taxes to get the hospital out of debt. Why? because a majority of El Pasoans are not insured, and we have a high level of people living below the poverty line.

So how would communist healthcare change ANY of this?

[Psykopath]

So how would communist healthcare change ANY of this?

People are talking about Communist healthcare?!?

Where???

[Mommy]

So how would communist healthcare change ANY of this?

If by Communist healthcare you mean forcing EVERYONE to pay for health insurance, not just those that actually realize its a necessity... then a lot

[pebkac]

edit: i totally agree with taking drug ads off the television/media. the US is one of the last countries to even allow that

Wouldn't that be a violation of the Pharmaceutical Cos 1st amendment rights though?

If nothing else, we should limit the amount of advertising they can do.

[Hartmann]

and hospitals do their damn hardest to not "absorb the cost" they will go to the ends of the earth before they do that.

You mean like continually sending bills? Yeah, that's to be expected.

[Hartmann]

Wouldn't that be a violation of the Pharmaceutical Cos 1st amendment rights though?

If nothing else, we should limit the amount of advertising they can do.

No, I think we should limit the type of advertising they do.

What the drug companies have done is taken the doctor out of a doctor and simply made him a signer of prescriptions. Doctors used to listen, ask really good questions, and take an interest in an illness. Now patients come in, say they have anxiety and want zoloft.

Prescription drugs, in my opinion, are not products, if they were then why don't the drug companies advertise codeine?

[impala454]

If by Communist healthcare you mean forcing EVERYONE to pay for health insurance, not just those that actually realize its a necessity... then a lot

We're talking about a fundamental principle our society is founded on. You're only responsible for yourself. Any responsibilities you have which effect others are regulated by the government. Which is why you're required to have auto liability insurance, mortgage insurance when your equity is below X%, flood insurance when you live in a flood plain, etc. These are all factors that effect not just you, but others. Your health and how you maintain it is your choice. If you don't choose to get health insurance, it has zero effect on me. If I don't have auto liability insurance though, and run someone over and injure them, it effects them greatly. Do you see what I'm saying? Yes, people should have health insurance, but should and required to is a very fine line I'd rather the government not cross.

I don't need Hillary to try to be my mommy and make me go to the doctor if I don't want to, or because I'm too stupid not to, or because I'll pay $150/mo for cable/internet but won't pay $60/mo for health insurance. I also don't need Hillary choosing which doctor I go to, or implementing policy that makes it take 10x longer for me to get healthcare if I need it.

[Spectatrix]

Wouldn't that be a violation of the Pharmaceutical Cos 1st amendment rights though?

If nothing else, we should limit the amount of advertising they can do.

The 1st Amendment applies to individuals, not corporations.

[pebkac]

The 1st Amendment applies to individuals, not corporations.

Not true. Corporations are considered juristic persons and have some (but not all) constitutional rights protected. They have a right to freedom of speech, but not freedom of religion.

[Spectatrix]

Hrm, I stand corrected.

[impala454]

So what about Winston's or Marlboro's first amendment rights? Once again I think "right to free speech" is being confused with "right to be on broadcast television". Being on TV is not a first amendment right.

[The Fanatic]

You are half right chuck. It only becomes a first amendment issue when the government becomes involved. So, when the government attempts to restrict the advertising rights of any said company, except in the event of protecting the public good, first amendment rights are violated. The real solution is to change the way that corporations are currently viewed as Jason pointed out.

[impala454]

No I was fully right . The FCC regulates a lot more than cigarette companies' advertising rights. Again, TV is not a first amendment right. If it was, I could watch pr0n on the evening news without government interference.

[Spectatrix]

No I was fully right . The FCC regulates a lot more than cigarette companies' advertising rights. Again, TV is not a first amendment right. If it was, I could watch pr0n on the evening news without government interference.

The FCC is frequently criticized for violating first amendment rights.

[Mommy]

No I was fully right . The FCC regulates a lot more than cigarette companies' advertising rights. Again, TV is not a first amendment right. If it was, I could watch pr0n on the evening news without government interference.

The FCC has a lot more control over the local stations (CBS NBC FOX ABC) than they do the other stations. I can give a big long answer on why that is, but ill spare everyone the reading

[impala454]

The FCC has a lot more control over the local stations (CBS NBC FOX ABC) than they do the other stations. I can give a big long answer on why that is, but ill spare everyone the reading

Short answer: local stations are public broadcast televsion.

The FCC is frequently criticized for violating first amendment rights.

criticism and court are two different things

[impala454]

Speaking of the topic, that stupid cunt is coming to Houston Feb 28th:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5515009.html

WASHINGTON — Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton has agreed to participate in a presidential debate scheduled for Feb. 28 in Houston, her campaign said today.

The Greater Houston Partnership and the Sierra Club Foundation have long been trying to lure the candidates to a debate at the George R. Brown Convention Center just five days before the March 4 Texas primary.

MSNBC has promised to air the event, with NBC News' Washington Bureau Chief Tim Russert moderating.

It was not immediately clear whether Clinton's opponent for the Democratic nomination, Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, would likewise agree to participate.

Both have said they expect their race to continue past today's Super Tuesday primaries.

The Houston debate would come one day after a debate in Ohio to be aired by CNN. Ohio also holds primaries March 4.

The campaign said Sen. Clinton of New York also has agreed to participate in a Feb. 10 debate on ABC's This Week and a Feb. 11 debate on Fox.

The Partnership and Sierra Club Foundation also hope to attract the Republican candidates to a separate debate on Feb. 28 if the race for the GOP nomination is still competitive at that point.

wonder who the hell she'll debate with if obama doesn't come...

[Dogmeat]

all I know is, the last thing in the world that needs to happen is for the mother fucking federal government to get even more of my god damned money than they already do.