Death Penalty Options

[Mommy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071213/ap_on_...alty_new_jersey

A special state commission found in January that the death penalty was a more expensive sentence than life in prison, hasn't deterred murder and risks killing an innocent person.

Good. These are the things I have been saying all along. I hate when people use the argument that the death penalty saves tax dollars. NO IT DOESN'T. It costs more to put someone to death because of the way our government works. I hate the death penalty. I know some people deserve to die (like people who harm children), but I dont think its our place to do it. I want people to sit in prison and rot.

[FORSAKENR320]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071213/ap_on_...alty_new_jersey
Good. These are the things I have been saying all along. I hate when people use the argument that the death penalty saves tax dollars. NO IT DOESN'T. It costs more to put someone to death because of the way our government works. I hate the death penalty. I know some people deserve to die (like people who harm children), but I dont think its our place to do it. I want people to sit in prison and rot.

bullshit.... because life in prison, they still end up dying. you pay for them for 50 years, then they die, and you pay that too. let me take over the executions. $.27 a bullet, boom fuck you, have a good day


i think this "special commission" is biased




EDIT:: i know it's biased now, it has a damn Deathpenaltyinfo.org link at the bottom.

[Mommy]

bullshit.... because life in prison, they still end up dying. you pay for them for 50 years, then they die, and you pay that too. let me take over the executions. $.27 a bullet, boom fuck you, have a good day


i think this "special commission" is biased

too many bureaucratic ropes to climb through when you execute a person. When a person dies in prison, you call the family to come pick them up or you put them in a potter's grave or whatever they are called.

[Spectatrix]

They've known for years that executing someone is more expensive. No news there. It's lame, but true.

[GOB]

too many bureaucratic ropes to climb through when you execute a person. When a person dies in prison, you call the family to come pick them up or you put them in a potter's grave or whatever they are called.

HAHAHA


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauper

[Mommy]

HAHAHA


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauper

pauper...thats what i was thinking of.haha

[Oasis]

Glad the article says the death penalty is more expensive, but doesn't explain why it's more expensive

Death penalty costs more than life in prison because dipshits on death row appeal 15 times before they're finally put down. Appeals cost a ton of money. An inmate on death row with no appeals costs more than an inmate who sits in prison for 50 years? Yeah, right. Bullshit.

If you want to lower costs, stop letting these assholes appeal every time they get within a few days of their execution date. Limit the number to one appeal. If you're found guilty the first and the second time, you'll be found guilty the ninth time. Stop wasting my tax dollars and just die already

[Mommy]

Does it really need to say why its more expensive... seems like its common knowledge that the appeals process is what drives the cost up. I dont know why they article would have to say that. People have been talking about this for years. The article (in my opinion) is saying that New Jersey lawmakers were able to PROVE that it was more expensive to kill people, putting rumors to rest.

[Oasis]

Does it really need to say why its more expensive

Uh, yeah.

If you're going to write an article and make a statistical claim, you better back it up with some factual evidence or reasoning to support that claim. Otherwise you aren't a journalist, you're Impala.

You can appeal any ruling, not just crimes that land you on death row. So what exactly does the death penalty have to do with anything? The problem lies with the appeals process. The only thing relevant about the death penalty is that inmates on death row happen to file more appeals than inmates serving life terms.

Typical politician idiocy. Try to save money by fixing the entirely wrong problem

[Mommy]

Uh, yeah.

If you're going to write an article and make a statistical claim, you better back it up with some factual evidence or reasoning to support that claim. Otherwise you aren't a journalist, you're Impala.

The article isnt making a claim. They are just giving the news. The news includes the reasons why the New Jersey lawmakers decided to get rid of the death penalty. Its an AP article, not a debate on how stupid our court system is. Wire stories arent going to go into a lot of detail. They expect that readers can do research. If you didnt know why it would cost more to put someone to death, wouldnt that be something you look up? I don't think you know how journalism works. Quick stories like this are facts of the story only, not the surrounding issues behind them. They write what they have.

[Mommy]

You know whats cool? Not a single death from the death penalty since Sept because all lethal injections have been stopped pending a US Supreme Court decision as to whether lethal injection (the only way we put people to death) is humane.

NEAT!

[chook]

I find the death penalty disturbing.

[Mommy]

me too

[impala454]

I find it more disturbing that my tax dollars go towards keeping alive worthless pieces of shit who've murdered (usually multiple) innocent people.

[Psykopath]

I find it more disturbing that my tax dollars go towards keeping alive worthless pieces of shit who've murdered (usually multiple) innocent people., as well as paying for the enormous cost of appeals in such cases.

Fixed to cover both sides.

[impala454]

Just fucking say what you're gonna say... geez. "fixed" gimme a break.

So maybe instead of saying appeals cost too much just leave em in jail, Nix the friggin insane amount of appeals? Or speed them up? I mean if it was wrong the first time what makes anyone think it'll be right the next time?

[Mommy]

Innocent people have been on death row. I don't think that is the answer.

[Psykopath]

Just fucking say what you're gonna say... geez. "fixed" gimme a break.

Change your tampon every once and a while...it should help with these e-rage flare ups!

[Mommy]

Change your tampon every once and a while...it should help with these e-rage flare ups!

haha.

[Divergent Realit...]

Change your tampon every once and a while...it should help with these e-rage flare ups!

zach.

she is pregger.

it is currently not a problem.

tho once she pops out the kid she will need a mattress to soak up the fluids.

[Psykopath]

zach.

she is pregger.

it is currently not a problem.

tho once she pops out the kid she will need a mattress to soak up the fluids.

Impala is preggers?!? o_0

[Divergent Realit...]

yes she is.

[Mommy]

Congratulations, Impala.

[Divergent Realit...]

see, in my head, regardless of if i have met you, you have your own different mental look in my head.

its great.

[Mommy]

are you talking about anyone in particular?

[Divergent Realit...]

are you talking about anyone in particular?

im talking about everyone in particular.

[Mommy]

oh i see.

[Divergent Realit...]

oh i see.

i dont think you see.

because you are pregnant.

the turntables can be spun to scratch the other way jessica.

remember this.

[Mommy]

i dont think you see.

because you are pregnant.

the turntables can be spun to scratch the other way jessica.

remember this.

oh. i see.

[Divergent Realit...]

oh. i see.

you have learned your lesson well oh fertile one.

[Mommy]

you have learned your lesson well oh fertile one.

thank you, master.

[FORSAKENR320]

thank you, master.

hawt

[Oasis]

Innocent people have been on death row. I don't think that is the answer.

That's a ridiculously dumb line of reasoning for not liking the death penalty

Let me ask you, would you rather see ten murderers and one innocent person put to death, or ten murderers and one innocent person go free?

[impala454]

Change your tampon every once and a while...it should help with these e-rage flare ups!

"e-rage flare up".. hmm... I like that

[Spectatrix]

New Jersey just outlawed it: http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/nj....alty/index.html

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Dec 14 2007, 12:27 PM

[Mommy]

That's a ridiculously dumb line of reasoning for not liking the death penalty

Let me ask you, would you rather see ten murderers and one innocent person put to death, or ten murderers and one innocent person go free?

Why would you ask such a STUPID question? Go take a class in logic, Will. You obviously need to. You're question is completely irrelevant to this thread. I never once said I wanted any of these people to go free (unless found to be innocent of course). I said let them rot in jail. So, yes, I would rather have ten murderers SITTING IN JAIL FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES (not going free....dont even know why that was brought into this) than have one INNOCENT man put to death. I already told you a long time ago I was against the death penalty. I won't march against it, because I don't feel that strongly against it; but when a state outlaws it and starts a trend to move our society away from inhumane acts like this, then yes, I will be a glad. Just like I think abortion is wrong, but won't actively argue against that either. However, the day partial birth abortions were banned, I was very happy.

Additionally, find in my post where I said that was why I'm against it. Nope, can't find it, can you? I am against it because I don't like the idea of humans playing god. I believe that people get what they deserve in the end. Additionally, I feel very sorry for the men and women working in prisons who have to institute the death penalty, like the ones that sit there and tie the person down or the ones that give them the drugs. Its an awful thing to have to do.

[THECHICKEN]

That's a ridiculously dumb line of reasoning for not liking the death penalty

Let me ask you, would you rather see ten murderers and one innocent person put to death, or ten murderers and one innocent person go free?

10 murderers and one innocent go free.... duh. Thats what our system is built around (freeing guility so that INNOCENT are not punished wrongly)

Seriously, you think executing 1 innocent per 10 is ok? Don't get me wrong, if the error rate is low enough i think you can allow it, but our whole system is about making sure innocents are not punished (hende the "beyond a reasonable doubt"). Why not just lower the requirement to find someone guilty while we are at it.

[impala454]

So what's the real error rate then? It's got to be lower than 1 in 10... I'd guess more like 1 in 1000. Give them one appeal... if they're convicted twice, then sorry they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Mommy]

then sorry they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Is that really a valid reason to be put to death, though? I should hope not

[pebkac]

Glad the article says the death penalty is more expensive, but doesn't explain why it's more expensive

Death penalty costs more than life in prison because dipshits on death row appeal 15 times before they're finally put down. Appeals cost a ton of money. An inmate on death row with no appeals costs more than an inmate who sits in prison for 50 years? Yeah, right. Bullshit.

If you want to lower costs, stop letting these assholes appeal every time they get within a few days of their execution date. Limit the number to one appeal. If you're found guilty the first and the second time, you'll be found guilty the ninth time. Stop wasting my tax dollars and just die already

Riiiiiighhht... let's make capital punishment cases in states like Texas more like kangaroo courts.

[Oasis]

Riiiiiighhht... let's make capital punishment cases in states like Texas more like kangaroo courts.

Kangaroo court?

Are you talking about when an arrest is made, evidence is gathered, witnesses are questioned, charges are filed, the case goes to trial, evidence is submitted, and a jury of 12 people unanimously agrees on a guilty verdict, a judge issues a sentence, an appeal is made later, and again the criminal is found guilty?

Or are you talking about a prisoner on death row filing an appeal close to the time he's to be executed, losing that appeal, filing another appeal the next time he's to be executed, losing that appeal, filing another appeal the next time he's to be executed, losing that appeal, filing another appeal the next time he's to be executed, losing that appeal, filing another appeal the next time he's to be executed, losing that appeal, filing another appeal the next time he's to be executed, losing that appeal

Which scenario describes a kangaroo court? Which scenario is a gross misuse of our justice system?


Appeals should only be allowed in one instance: when new evidence is discovered that might exonerate the defendant. Be it eyewitnesses, physical evidence, DNA evidence, whatever. Appeals without merit are a slap in the face to the justice system, a waste of my tax dollars, and a tool that people on death row use to postpone the inevitable.

[impala454]

Is that really a valid reason to be put to death, though? I should hope not

I dunno what to say... if a person has been convicted of murder and sentenced to death twice, what are the chances that they're innocent? How can you go... "oh well there's still that remote possibility that it's wrong, so lets let the person rot in jail the rest of their life instead on the dime of the taxpayer." It's not like you can give the guy the 30 years spent in jail back anymore than you can bring him back from the dead.

[Testm0nkey]

jurists are never unbiased, just doesnt happen. so being convicted and sentenced to 4 life sentences by juries can still be utterly false and based on emotion and prejudices. i think the whole system is silly and i dont support capital punishment

i think it would be better to just have judges rule in all cases and have more of a way to check corruption and better appellate system

[Oasis]

Additionally, find in my post where I said that was why I'm against it. Nope, can't find it, can you? I am against it because I don't like the idea of humans playing god.

You just did state your stance on the death penalty

Isn't the concept sending someone to jail and taking away their freedoms, in effect, playing god?

Additionally, I feel very sorry for the men and women working in prisons who have to institute the death penalty, like the ones that sit there and tie the person down or the ones that give them the drugs. Its an awful thing to have to do.

I don't feel sorry for them at all. They willingly took a job and they knew exactly what they'd have to do.

[impala454]

jurists are never unbiased, just doesnt happen. so being convicted and sentenced to 4 life sentences by juries can still be utterly false and based on emotion and prejudices. i think the whole system is silly and i dont support capital punishment

i think it would be better to just have judges rule in all cases and have more of a way to check corruption and better appellate system

Say what!?? You think a jury is biased but a friggin judge wouldn't be!?!?

[Testm0nkey]

a judge knows the law and you would expect them to rule accordingly more so then a mixture of retards. if they werent deemed capable of doing that, they wouldnt be judges in the first place

[impala454]

a judge knows the law and you would expect them to rule accordingly more so then a mixture of retards. if they werent deemed capable of doing that, they wouldnt be judges in the first place

These cases aren't about interpreting the law, it's about deciding whether the defendant is guilty of the crime. So instead of having 12 randomly, meticulously screened people decide, you'd leave it up to ONE elected official???

I want some of that crack you got.

[Testm0nkey]

theres been a lot of research into the topic of jury decision making etc. and its practically all moot and totally biased. lost nearly all my faith in the court system

[Mommy]

In response to Will because quotes are acting funny for me:

umm...no. Its called protecting society. Playing God = giving and taking life (hence why I think cloning is silly). Dont exaggerate what I'm saying. If you want to do that, then why dont I just start thinking that taking laxatives is playing God? If God wanted me to shit, I would shit. Nope, dont think that. I think its wrong to take a life, unless its in self defense. I consider wars based on national security to be self defense.


I (ME MYSELF I, in other words NOT YOU) feel bad for these people because I trully don't want to know what that feels like...to have taken a life. Some people get messed up after watching someone be put to death. Imagine being the one that did that. Its just something I dont want anyone to have to be responsible for.

[Oasis]

You can't perfect an imperfect system.

Sure some jur"ists" are biased. That's why they go through screenings and tests to weed out the biased ones.

And judges don't decide verdicts. They announce verdicts and decide punishment

[Testm0nkey]

i am saying they should decide verdicts and if you think jury screening processes are great and mean a whole lot you are fooling yourself!

[Mommy]

i am saying they should decide verdicts and if you think jury screening processes are great and mean a whole lot you are fooling yourself!

I agree with you.

You can't perfect an imperfect system.

I think this gets my nomination for stupidest post of the day. Where is that post awards thread? This is going there.

[Testm0nkey]

for example they ask potential jurists if they would ever see themself voting in favor of a capital punishment sentence or would be able to make that deicison. if they say no they are striken from the jury pool because the court believes in a capital case, capital punishment decision may come about and a "fair" decision would have to be made. but research found that people who can imagine voting in favor of capital punishment are way more likely to rule out evidence from the defense and favor evidence from the prosecution even if it is flawed and unfair. the same study also found people who cannot imagine dishing out capital punishment or are unsure are LESS biased when weighing evidence from the defense or prosecution. so in capital cases they are just making the jury more flawed than they typically would be from the get go

that and studies even recent ones find that black males and males more than females are handed out stiffer sentences when presented the same exact case. you cant say a jury, made up of humans of course, can ever be totally unbiased. they are not trained to be that way


that and studies into group think! you can sway a group of people very easily by having common personality characteristics and people are way more likely to vote with the group when a deadlock happens or when they are unsure of how they feel.

[Oasis]

I think this gets my nomination for stupidest post of the day. Where is that post awards thread? This is going there.

Exactly what the fuck is stupid about that comment?

Obviously the legal system is imperfect. Not every piece of evidence is collected. Not every piece of evidence will be presented. Not every witness comes forward and testifies. Not every juror can be completely objective and unbiased. Identical crimes get different sentences. Lawyers withhold evidence. Investigators plant evidence.

It can't rationally nor logically be perfected. There will always be problems and deficiencies in any court case. Hence, an imperfect system.

But to discount the entire justice system because some jurors might be biased is fucking asinine because it's logistically impossible to find 12 completely unbiased jurors.

[impala454]

Oh please here comes the race bullshit. Bye bye thread. Ya lost me at "one judge makes a less biased decision than 12 random people."

[Mommy]

because its the attitude that it cant get better that keeps us down. Working towards perfection is a good thing. Even though it may never be reached, doing things to improve the situation is good.

[Testm0nkey]

Oh please here comes the race bullshit. Bye bye thread. Ya lost me at "one judge makes a less biased decision than 12 random people."

uh its been shown time and time again that it happens

dont kill the messenger!

[Oasis]

because its the attitude that it cant get better that keeps us down. Working towards perfection is a good thing. Even though it may never be reached, doing things to improve the situation is good.

It can get better and working towards making it better is always a good thing.

But it can't nor won't be perfected. That isn't a pessimistic attitude, it's a realistic one.

[Mommy]

It can get better and working towards making it better is always a good thing.

But it can't nor won't be perfected. That isn't a pessimistic attitude, it's a realistic one.

I quit. Carrying on a debate with you is useless. If you think about why you said that to begin with and then how youre responding now, its very contradictory. That is all.

[pebkac]

Oh please here comes the race bullshit. Bye bye thread. Ya lost me at "one judge makes a less biased decision than 12 random people."

Not that I necessarily agree with Cathryn's stance 100%, but our judicial system IS biased against minorities.

[Mommy]

Not that I necessarily agree with Cathryn's stance 100%, but our judicial system IS biased against minorities.

Exactly what a gay person would say

[blaarg]

Carrying on a debate with you is useless. If you think about why you said that to begin with and then how youre responding now, its very contradictory. That is all.

There is no such thing as a debate on techsans.

People on here couldn't give a shit about thinking about another person's position...it eats into their time posting their own position (thinking that other people care about their own opinion, but they don't, causing a vicious cycle)...
I am not immune from this either...

An interesting thread would be "what has someone on techsans posted that has changed your mind about an issue..."

[FORSAKENR320]

Not that I necessarily agree with Cathryn's stance 100%, but our judicial system IS biased against minorities.

when it's minorities causing the majority of the crime, i wish it'd be more biased. and don't give me no bullshit, i see on a daily basis who causes all this crime.

either we fix the system, or we fix the minorities.




i'm inn a pissed off moodn at work right now. i really wish one of these thieving ignorant motherfuckers would break into my house tonight. i seriously wanna cause one of them as much pain as possible

[Psykopath]

when it's minorities causing the majority of the crime, i wish it'd be more biased. and don't give me no bullshit, i see on a daily basis who causes all this crime.

either we fix the system, or we fix the minorities.

*sigh*

At least you didn't slip up and say "minorities cause all the crime" like you did before.

[Black Bear]

*sigh*

At least you didn't slip up and say "minorities cause all the crime" like you did before.

That is because most politicians are white.






























Discalaimer: I don't really know if most politicians are white, it just seemed like a funny thing to add.