What makes Christians more susceptible to attack? Options

[Hartmann]

I read this message board and a few others and there are outright attacks on Christians (not so much here) with things like "crazy faith" and rude remarks being made towards the faith and the people who believe.

On these same message boards, neither the Muslim faith nor the jihadi movement are attacked or even mentioned.

My question is, why the disconnect? If Christians are so crazy in thinking there will be an "end times" why aren't the Muslims in thinking that all who do not believe should die (oddly enough, Christians don't believe this).

I'd like to keep this as clean and friendly as possible. Please no "Christians are dumb", etc.

[jonathan83]

i think it's because most people here have more experience growing up around christian people vs. muslims. the average american knows more about what christianity is than what islam is about, so they attack it more.

[kcroxyoursox]

I'm not sure what boards you're reading, but could it be that an attack on Christians would rile more people up than the handful of Muslims?

Edit: Also, now that I'm thinking about it, I think Jon's onto something with the "better known" theory. When I was younger I would ask all of my friends if they were Christian or Jewish. I thought everyone fell into one of two categories because my parents were one of each and everyone I asked that to always answered one or the other.

[Oasis]

Because you can attack Christians and not be brutally murdered for it

[blaarg]

It's because we live in America.
According to wiki, 80% are Christian (or identify themselves as Christian) while 5% of other religions (including Muslim, Jews, Buddhists, etc...) when you have that much difference in percentage of religious beliefs it's natural to attack the one where 4/5 belong to...

If Christians are so crazy in thinking there will be an "end times" why aren't the Muslims in thinking that all who do not believe should die (oddly enough, Christians don't believe this).

You forget the fact that we non-believers are going to be damned to hell for all of eternity (Muslim/Christian doctrine). I guess thank you Christians for being reasonable for my 70+ years on Earth and unreasonable for infinite years after that...

For that reason alone, all religions are the same to at least me (don't want to generalize for all non-believers). "If you don't believe in [X] something bad will happen to you for a really long time..."

[Seeker]

christians are easy targets because they continue to believe fairy tales in the face of scientific evidence, they don't use common sense, and they cover their ears while humming "lalalalalalala i can't hear you lalalalala" anytime you try to talk some sense into them

fuckin' christians

[Mommy]

I hate blatant attacks against Christianity. Personally, I dont know what I believe in as far as the beginning of times and the end of times, but I will always side with the Christians on this just for the simple fact that I like their stance better and I will stick up for the lesser popular belief. My boyfriend and I get into evolution debates because he believes in it and well, I dont. He doesnt ridicule me, but thinks its silly that I take that side. There is this trend towards disproving Christianity scientifically. I think that intolerance in science is what is building the intolerance in society. I have yet to understand the big bang theory. It makes no sense, but they push it at school kids. We grew up in an era that really pushed scientific fact, and I think that has hindered the tolerance for Christianity, because that is what American science directly attacks.

[chook]

Its becasuse people want to blame something for their problems, and we live in a society that doesn't take responsability for their shortcommings.

[pebkac]

People have tendency to be egocentric and think that their way of thinking is the only way. This goes for everyone no matter if you're Christian, Muslim, Rastafarian, or atheist.

But I agree with blaarg. If we lived in a country that was predominantly any other religion, it would be the same way to that religion.

This post has been edited by pebkac: Oct 15 2007, 11:29 AM

[Hartmann]

It's because we live in America.
According to wiki, 80% are Christian (or identify themselves as Christian) while 5% of other religions (including Muslim, Jews, Buddhists, etc...) when you have that much difference in percentage of religious beliefs it's natural to attack the one where 4/5 belong to...
You forget the fact that we non-believers are going to be damned to hell for all of eternity (Muslim/Christian doctrine). I guess thank you Christians for being reasonable for my 70+ years on Earth and unreasonable for infinite years after that...

For that reason alone, all religions are the same to at least me (don't want to generalize for all non-believers). "If you don't believe in [X] something bad will happen to you for a really long time..."

So why are no other faiths attacked? Is the fact that there are pushy Christians the reason they are attacked over Muslims (or other faiths)?

Or is it truly a numbers game?

I doubt in Saudi Arabia Muslims are the dominant recipient of attack like posts or comments.

I don't attack atheists or put down what they believe or what they lack belief in so why should my faith have that applied to it? For a society that wants "equality" it seems to be quite the opposite. It seems that attacking the things that we do not understand is ok, as long as we disagree with it.

You can say you disagree with Christianity because its premise of Hell and eternal damnation and the fact that you think it may be a fairy tale, but I can explain to you that what most Christians point out to non-believers is fluff and nothing more. Would you still think that attacking them would be ok if they were (more) passive?

[TetraGrammaton C...]

i would say it is a simple appeal to audience. the board is basically composed of christians and non-religious people. attacking any other religion would seem a bit silly.

agnosticism, atheism and the like:
they are often divided people, with no supporting network, unlike many religious people.
these people are often prepared to be on the defensive and make attacks before they are attacked.
this board has several people that subscribe to similar beliefs/non-beliefs and there is a feeling of comfortableness in that, but when someone says something religious, it is like walking into the geek shop and confusing star wars with star trek. this is not because there are not a fair amount of christians, but because for the most part this board is vacant of religious discussion. i used to try to start some, but they often ended poorly.

because religion is often very silent and unspoken, people often forget that anyone on here is different than they are. we naturally assume people act similarly to the way we do and when something different pops out, it becomes a point of contention. a lot of people who are not religious often forget that religion plays a large part in other people's lives. it becomes difficult for them to imagine.

an alternative view suggests that the discrimination is one based on presumed intellectual superiority, as if negating religion is progressive/evolution. In that mindset people look back and see their fellow man using what they believe to be a "square wheel" when they think that a superior wheel is readily available. if this person fails to choose what appears to be a logical upgrade, the person who has already taken that step may regard them as being of lesser intelligence without acknowledging the time and pain associated with any sort of major mental shift.

there are a lot of people who have chosen their faith or lack thereof based on their own intellectual and philosophical development. these people often have very complicated views and respect for others choices.
unfortunately, just as with christianity, people often get led like sheep into the religion or non-religion of their friends and parents without developing their own mentality. this creates people with beliefs that have not matured, but instead were a result of systemic conformism. these types of people often childishly lash out at others, who believe differently because in their inexperienced mind there can be no other way.


and on a side note "intolerance in science"
that seems sort of silly to me.

[Oasis]

So why are no other faiths attacked? Is the fact that there are pushy Christians the reason they are attacked over Muslims (or other faiths)?

It isn't politically correct to attack the minority. It's funny that if a celebrity attacks Christianity the news outlets don't care, but if someone attacks say Judaism it's a national crisis for weeks on end.

[jonathan83]

I doubt in Saudi Arabia Muslims are the dominant recipient of attack like posts or comments.

this is true. i think the muslim countries are more respectful to their religion , but also they're pretty much all muslims anyway, so they dont make fun of their religion.

[Melanie]

Two words (or a name... whatev)... mAnne Coulter

[Billy]

Generally, if you lived in America, and had a bad experience with religious people (especially if religion were the cause of such bad experience), you're going to resent that religion more so than a religion you have little experience with (no credit is better than bad credit).

[blaarg]

i would say it is a simple appeal to audience. the board is basically composed of christians and non-religious people. attacking any other religion would seem a bit silly.

agnosticism, atheism and the like:
they are often divided people, with no supporting network, unlike many religious people.
these people are often prepared to be on the defensive and make attacks before they are attacked.
this board has several people that subscribe to similar beliefs/non-beliefs and there is a feeling of comfortableness in that, but when someone says something religious, it is like walking into the geek shop and confusing star wars with star trek. this is not because there are not a fair amount of christians, but because for the most part this board is vacant of religious discussion. i used to try to start some, but they often ended poorly.

because religion is often very silent and unspoken, people often forget that anyone on here is different than they are. we naturally assume people act similarly to the way we do and when something different pops out, it becomes a point of contention. a lot of people who are not religious often forget that religion plays a large part in other people's lives. it becomes difficult for them to imagine.

an alternative view suggests that the discrimination is one based on presumed intellectual superiority, as if negating religion is progressive/evolution. In that mindset people look back and see their fellow man using what they believe to be a "square wheel" when they think that a superior wheel is readily available. if this person fails to choose what appears to be a logical upgrade, the person who has already taken that step may regard them as being of lesser intelligence without acknowledging the time and pain associated with any sort of major mental shift.

there are a lot of people who have chosen their faith or lack thereof based on their own intellectual and philosophical development. these people often have very complicated views and respect for others choices.
unfortunately, just as with christianity, people often get led like sheep into the religion or non-religion of their friends and parents without developing their own mentality. this creates people with beliefs that have not matured, but instead were a result of systemic conformism. these types of people often childishly lash out at others, who believe differently because in their inexperienced mind there can be no other way.
and on a side note "intolerance in science"
that seems sort of silly to me.

wow, please let me copy this and save it because it is fucking awesome.

[blaarg]

For a society that wants "equality" it seems to be quite the opposite. It seems that attacking the things that we do not understand is ok, as long as we disagree with it.

I don't think this is entirely true. I think Christians get the brunt of the attack here in the US because we (non-believers) DO understand more about it (more so than any other religion) leading us to be more vocal against it.

I know from personal experience that I was only religious in my younger years because of indoctrination by the likes of my parents. I naturally attack Christianity more so than any other because, in essence, I've been there.

[Jim]

Most of the reason I'm against Christians is 80% of the ones I know are super hypocrites. They also like to attack science saying it's false and then embrace it with the other side when it helps their cause.

[Hartmann]

I don't think this is entirely true. I think Christians get the brunt of the attack here in the US because we (non-believers) DO understand more about it (more so than any other religion) leading us to be more vocal against it.

I know from personal experience that I was only religious in my younger years because of indoctrination by the likes of my parents. I naturally attack Christianity more so than any other because, in essence, I've been there.

I can understand that. I think that most who are "against" Christianity or at least critical of it, have some sort of experience with it.

However, I don't think that experience makes the person an expert on the religion. You understand the basic premise and the surrounding events but some of the finer points may not have had time to sink in.

I will agree that there are a lot of people who are hypocrites, in fact, I'm sure I've been one at some point and will be one in the future. But aren't we all hypocrites at one level or other?

[Jim]

I can understand that. I think that most who are "against" Christianity or at least critical of it, have some sort of experience with it.

However, I don't think that experience makes the person an expert on the religion. You understand the basic premise and the surrounding events but some of the finer points may not have had time to sink in.

I will agree that there are a lot of people who are hypocrites, in fact, I'm sure I've been one at some point and will be one in the future. But aren't we all hypocrites at one level or other?

Beating your kids on the way to church and on the way home seems a bit too much leeway for my taste

[dauss]

For me, all the news and some events that have affected me personally now and when I was growing up. Muslims....not so much.

Who bombed and assassinated doctors at abortion clinics?
Who fondled little boys while preaching anti-homosexuality?
Who had gay sex and snorted meth while preaching anti-homosexuality?
Who knocks on my door telling me that jesus is the only way into heaven and that I will burn if I don't accept him?
Who's fault is it that I can't pick up full strength refridgerated beer in so many states and liquor on sundays?
Why isn't safe sex taught practiced in schools/who are giant prononents of abstinence only when it has been proven that it doesn't work?

[jonathan83]

For me, it's just the personal touch that christians have affected my life. Muslims....not so much.

well that's because you're in the states. if you lived in the middle east, muslims would affect you (being a non-muslim) far more than christians would.

Who bombed and assassinated doctors at abortion clinics?

at least abortion is legal here. do you really think women would have those rights in muslim countries? if they even tried to do that, they'd be stoned or hanged.
furthermore, talking about bombings...2 words, muslim terrorists

Who fondled little boys while preaching anti-homosexuality?
Who had gay sex and snorted meth while preaching anti-homosexuality?

if you were homosexual in a muslim country, not only would your life be hell, you may even be executed (iran)

Who knocks on my door telling me that jesus is the only way into heaven and that I will burn if I don't accept him?

well, if you weren't muslim in muslim country, they may just kill you. they believe they can and should kill non-muslims

Who's fault is it that I can't pick up full strength refridgerated beer in so many states and liquor on sundays?

do you think you can buy alcohol in muslim countries? their alcohol laws are severely more restricted

Why isn't safe sex taught practiced in schools/who are giant proponents of abstinence only when it has been proven that it doesn't work?

do you really think muslim countries teach about safe sex? no freakin way.

you see, when you compare the two, christianity is like living in amsterdam compared to living in a muslim country.

This post has been edited by jonathan83: Oct 15 2007, 10:56 PM

[blaarg]

However, I don't think that experience makes the person an expert on the religion. You understand the basic premise and the surrounding events but some of the finer points may not have had time to sink in.

True, it doesn't make me an expert, but I don't see how if I learned/understand the core tenets and rejected it how learning the fine points/becoming an complete expert would help me turn back to religion. I mean if I don't like the big picture...

[Spectatrix]

I was born and raised Catholic (and was pretty devout in my younger years), now am an atheistic agnostic. I do not have a problem with Christians and Christianity in general, but I do not feel any guilt in speaking out against those in the faith that strike me as utterly moronic. Surely you will not deny me my right to call Fred Phelps a bloody bigoted idiot?

As for why I don't "attack" Islam as frequently as Christianity... well, frankly, there aren't as many Islam-related goings-on in the US for me to comment on. *shrugs*

[Jim]

When did this turn into muslim country versus 'murica?

[Spectatrix]

When did this turn into muslim country versus 'murica?

Uhhh...

I read this message board and a few others and there are outright attacks on Christians (not so much here) with things like "crazy faith" and rude remarks being made towards the faith and the people who believe.

On these same message boards, neither the Muslim faith nor the jihadi movement are attacked or even mentioned.

My question is, why the disconnect? If Christians are so crazy in thinking there will be an "end times" why aren't the Muslims in thinking that all who do not believe should die (oddly enough, Christians don't believe this).

[Jim]

This thread, from the topic description and what people are saying is, "Why do people attack Muslims less than Christians?". Two different ideas there

[Hartmann]

As an example let's look at Ann Coulter's recent comments.

She stated something to the likes of "if Jews converted to Christianity they'd be perfect". This has caused an outrage at both Christians and at Coulter. Now, what she said should not have been spoken in such a way because it came off as her saying that personality and morality wise, the Jew would then be perfect, when in fact, I think that the agreement is that she meant that spiritually they would be perfected (God's chosen people + salvation).

Looking at the news and talkshow coverage of her comments, there are comments such as "Muslims should be outraged". What? Why, because she didn't include them? Yet, Muslims (in this country and European countries) openly teach that the non-believer should be killed if not converted. And no one thinks that's a big deal?

I guess a public figure should keep their beliefs and feelings bottled up and are not entitled to say what they want to say, no matter how wrong it may be. Paging Sally Field.

Another comment was, "Doesn't she [Anne] know that Judaism came before Christianity?". I am fairly certain Coulter knows the history of Judaism and the fact that Jesus was a Jew. The non-understanding of spirituality make that question irrelevant my view as the person asking it wants to see Anne's comments as a physical problem not a spiritual one.

I don't agree with Anne on what she said but why are the targets so much bigger on Christians?

Thank you for the responses so far, they've been interesting.

[jonathan83]

how's this for you guys: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/10/16...ersy/index.html

Al Qaeda has put a $100,000 price on his head and offered an extra $50,000 for anyone who murders him by slitting his throat after the eccentric artist and sculptor drew a cartoon depicting the Prophet Mohammed as a dog.

One Swedish Muslim woman who lives just an hour-and-a-half drive from Vilks said she hopes to make good on the al Qaeda threat and slaughter Vilks like a lamb.

"I can do this in the name of Allah, and I will not fail. I could slaughter him in the name of Allah," says the woman who identified herself only as Amatullah.

She adds, "If I get the opportunity."

Dressed in a black burqa from head to toe and uttering death threat after death threat, the woman -- a wife and mother -- says she is defending her religion and her prophet if she manages to kill Vilks.

christians don't put out a notice to all members saying "go kill him" just for making fun of their religion.

[pebkac]

well that's because you're in the states. if you lived in the middle east, muslims would affect you (being a non-muslim) far more than christians would.

at least abortion is legal here. do you really think women would have those rights in muslim countries? if they even tried to do that, they'd be stoned or hanged.
furthermore, talking about bombings...2 words, muslim terrorists

if you were homosexual in a muslim country, not only would your life be hell, you may even be executed (iran)

well, if you weren't muslim in muslim country, they may just kill you. they believe they can and should kill non-muslims

do you think you can buy alcohol in muslim countries? their alcohol laws are severely more restricted

do you really think muslim countries teach about safe sex? no freakin way.

you see, when you compare the two, christianity is like living in amsterdam compared to living in a muslim country.

I think dauss's point was that those events tend to rub people the wrong way in terms of liking or disliking Christianity. Sure, things are a lot worse in a lot of muslim countries, but those are a long way from here. Most people are more concerned with what's happening in our own country.

[blaarg]

I have a problem with the "openly teach for the killings of non-believers" statement.

Yes there are sects/mosques that do believe this in some of the most radical muslim countries, but think about the mosques here in the states. You think that a substantial proportion thinks that they should kill non-believers? I would put my money on not.

The fact is just because it is mentioned in the Qur'an, does not mean it is practiced (at least in more industrialized societies). The same way that Christians (other than ridiculous sects) don't follow all the rules/laws outlined in Leviticus.

[Testm0nkey]

as far as i remember in the quran deadly force is only sanctioned if it is provoked. there is no "yeah kill the people who dont agree whenever" written in there.

but i happen to own a copy ill go check!

[Testm0nkey]

regarding christianity and their differences in the true spirit of Jesus

I believe in whatever Book Allah has sent down (this includes bible); and I am commanded to judge justly between you (though they feel the bible is perverted by people rewriting it so its no longer original). Allah is our Lord and your Lord! For us is the responsibility for our deeds, and for you for your deeds. there is no contention between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and to Him is our final goal.

islam as the religion itself doesnt include separatists or fanatics. to be muslim is to be joined with all the muslims in the world. it makes references to ALL humans being of 1 (since created by allah) so there is no "chosen" people.

say ye: we believe
In God, and the revelations
Given to us, and to Abraham,
Isma'il, Issac, Jacob,
And the tribes, and that given
To Moses and Jesus, and that given
To (all) Prophets from their Lord:
We make no difference
Between one and another of them:
And we bow to God in surrender.

women have had the right to own property, divorce in many circumstances, write wills, to inherit since decreed by the prophet, 1,400 years ago. women in the west didnt get these rights until the 19th century.

jihad is mistranslated as "holy war" its true meaning is "striving." the greatest jihad according to muhammad is the "struggle against the lower self" - internal fight between right and wrong, selfishness/selfishlessness, hardness of heart and all embracing love (which is to be strived for).
according to muhammad "the preferred jihad is a truth spoken in the presence of a tyrant" - nonviolence.

in the qur'anic revelations about jihad:

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged - and verily god is the most powerful for their aid: (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes, in defiance of right (for no cause) except that they say "our lord is god"

this is perverted to EXTREME by extremists

toward the greater jihad is though fasting and prayer to kill one's own ego

fight for the sake of allah those that fight against you, but do not be aggressive. allah does not love the aggressors.

BUT like in the bible there are some contradictions but i think the overall peaceful meaning is clear

Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter, nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can... fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in god

a peaceful society is like paradise.

i seriously question where people come up with the belief that killing people is encouraged in the quran. if you believe that you should investigate where you heard that from because thats a pretty dangerous assertion and hypocritical

[jonathan83]

well muslims themselves say it....

[Testm0nkey]

no a certain sect of radicals say it that are a very small minority of muslims

so Christians say homosexuals deserve to be killed?

[Jim]

well muslims themselves say it....

Just like a certain sect of Christians say the same thing...

[dauss]

well that's because you're in the states. if you lived in the middle east, muslims would affect you (being a non-muslim) far more than christians would.

That's right I don't live in the middle east, what's your point?

at least abortion is legal here. do you really think women would have those rights in muslim countries? if they even tried to do that, they'd be stoned or hanged.
furthermore, talking about bombings...2 words, muslim terrorists

I don't know. I don't know much about islam.

if you were homosexual in a muslim country, not only would your life be hell, you may even be executed (iran)

well, I'm sure they'd be doing what christians are doing, pretending to be straight, marry and be miserable. also, you ever hear of something called "hate crime"? Something that people who hate homosexuals(probably christians) do, like beating beat up and killed?

well, if you weren't muslim in muslim country, they may just kill you. they believe they can and should kill non-muslims

I did not know this.

do you think you can buy alcohol in muslim countries? their alcohol laws are severely more restricted

Good for them, maybe there are less alcholics and drunk drivers there.

do you really think muslim countries teach about safe sex? no freakin way.

I don't know what they do over there.

you see, when you compare the two, christianity is like living in amsterdam compared to living in a muslim country.

Not sure how that analogy works, but here you go. So.......fuck christianity and fuck islam.

Oh yeah, fuck lance for not letting the quote button requote what the previous quoted person said and/or fuck opera for not working properly, if it does work.

fuck!

[jonathan83]

Good for them, maybe there are less alcholics and drunk drivers there.

so if that's how you think, then why are you against buying alcohol on sundays? you're agreeing with what you disagreed with in the first place

Not sure how that analogy works

well let's see. amsterdamn is one of the most liberal places in the world.
saying christians are to amsterdam means islam is way limited/close-minded compared to christianity.

[jonathan83]

no a certain sect of radicals say it that are a very small minority of muslims

very small minority? i dont know about you, but i hear a LOT more about muslims calling for the deaths of americans and christians more than i hear about christians killing muslims (actually, i never hear about that). and i'm talking about present times, not crusades.

[jonathan83]

Just like a certain sect of Christians say the same thing...

certain sect? um as far as i've heard, one church, westboro. there may be a couple more than that that i havent heard of, but there are organizations with hundreds of thousands of people (al-qaeda, abu-sayyaf, fatah, hamas, hezbollah, etc. etc.) when you're talking about islam....

[jonathan83]

just thought i'd include this for testmonkey, jim, and others arguing that people associated with christianity kill just as much or more than people associated with islam.

per wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terro...tions#Christian

Christian

* Army of God - An American pro-life terrorist group. [2]
* God's Army - A terrorist group in Myanmar.[2]
* Nagaland Rebels (1947-present) Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004. Goal: Independence from India after annexing parts of neighboring Indian states and Burma if it has Christian majority.[2]
* National Liberation Front of Tripura (1989-present) A group that seeks the independence of Tripura from India to create a Christian Tripura.[2]
* Phineas Priesthood An American based Christian Identity movement. [2]
* National Democratic Front of Bodoland, active terrorist in the Indian state of Assam, involved in the murder of Bineshwar Brahma, prominent Hindu Bodo activist.[2]

Islamist

* Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines)[2]
o Based in the southern islands of Jolo, Basilan, and Mindanao.
o Branched off of the Moro National Liberation Front.
o Allegedly partnered with Jemaah Islamiyah and Al-Qaeda.
* Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen)[2]
* Adolat - Uzbekistan[citation needed]
* Akromiya - Uzbekistan[citation needed]
* Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt)[2]
o Seeks to establish Islamist state in Egypt. Usually targets secular establishments, government buildings, police, the military, minorities, tourists, and “morally offensive” buildings.
* Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria)[2]
o Seeks to establish Islamist state in Algeria. Began operations in 1992 after the Algerian government ignored election results that gave victory to Islamist political parties.
* Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades[2]
* Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq)[2]
o In Arabic, "Supporters of Islam."
o Also known as "Partisans of Islam or Helpers of Islam."
* Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide)[2]
o In Arabic, "the foundation", "the base", or "the database" kept by intelligence services of anti-Soviet Afghani fighters.
o Also known as Qa‘idat al-Jihad, Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places, World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders, Islamic Salvation Foundation, and the Osama bin Laden Network.
o Related: Alneda (former web site), As-Sahab (affiliated public relations organization),
o Cells: Buffalo six, Hamburg cell,
* Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon)[2]
o In Arabic, "the League of the Followers."
o Acronym for "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya," or Islamic Resistance Movement.
* Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq
o on U.S. State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations
* Bunch of Guys (BOGs) or Group of Guys (GOGs), a counter-terrorism term to describe small, anonymous, self-organizing terrorist cells that have little to no contact with national or global leaders or organizations
* Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement - al-Qaeda linked separatist group in China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region aiming to establish an Islamic state. Banned by China, along with related groups East Turkestan Liberation Organization, World Uighur Youth Congress and East Turkistan Information Center[3][2]
* Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s)[2]
* Fatah al-Islam - Nahr al-Bared Palestinian refugee camp, Lebanon; splittered from Fatah Uprising in 2006.[citation needed]
* Hamas - West Bank, Gaza Strip. Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States[2]
* Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir[2]
* Hizb-an-nusra - Uzbekistan[citation needed]
* Hizb ut-Tahrir - international (legal in Britain and Australia)[citation needed]
* Hezbollah - Lebanon; Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Israel, and the United States[2]
* Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir[2]
* Hofstad Network - Netherlands[citation needed]
* Islamic Front for the Liberation of Bahrain - Defunct[citation needed]
* Islamic Movement of Central Asia - Central Asia (affiliated with Al Qaeda)[citation needed]
o Islamic Movement of Tajikistan - Tajikistan[citation needed]
o Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan[2]
* Jaish-e-Mohammed - Pakistan[2]
* Jaish Ansar al-Sunna - Iraq[4]
* Jama'at al-Jihad al-Islami[citation needed]
* Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia[2]
* Jihad Rite - Australia (linked with Al Qaeda. Founded in 2001)[citation needed]
* Jundallah - Iran and Pakistan (affiliated with the USA and Al-Qaeda)[2]
* Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan[2]
* Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan[2]
* Maktab al-Khadamat - Afghanistan - Defunct
* Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain[2]
* Moro Islamic Liberation Front - (Islamic separatists; the Philippines)[2]
* Palestinian Islamic Jihad - Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip[2]
* People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa[2]
* Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Algeria
* Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan[2]
* Students Islamic Movement of India - India[2]
* Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria[2]
* Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi - Pakistan
* Turkish Hezbollah - Kurdish organization operating in Turkey[2]
* Turkish Islamic Jihad - Turkey[2]

This post has been edited by jonathan83: Oct 16 2007, 06:59 PM

[Jim]

Let's look at Nazi's and Aryan Brotherhood and other White supremacy groups. They're acting in the name of God and Jesus.

I'm sorry, Jonathan, but Muslims don't have a monopoly on the terrorist bit.

[Testm0nkey]

when did i say Christians kill more than any other?

of course you hear a lot about muslims saying they are out to kill christians. because thats inflammatory and the media display the FEW muslims that are doing that to help the media's motives. that doesnt mean the majority of muslims feel that way and no where does that mean thats whats taught in the quran

a few thousand muslims isnt a lot. it is the 2nd largest religion in the world. and in the radical sects there are various levels of intolerance. some people may just be smushed together with it but not believe in it at all. just like in christianity

[jonathan83]

Let's look at Nazi's and Aryan Brotherhood and other White supremacy groups. They're acting in the name of God and Jesus.

I'm sorry, Jonathan, but Muslims don't have a monopoly on the terrorist bit.

i dont recall the nazi's killing in the name of jesus. just because hitler was "christian" doesnt meant he was killing in jesus' name. anyway, i said i wasn't talking about the past anyway, just the present. i dont hear about christians calling for the deaths of muslims.

[jonathan83]

of course you hear a lot about muslims saying they are out to kill christians. because thats inflammatory and the media display the FEW muslims that are doing that to help the media's motives. that doesnt mean the majority of muslims feel that way and no where does that mean thats whats taught in the quran

well, i dont know. i'm not saying the majority of muslims feel that way (especially those who grew up in western countries), and i know there are muslims who are against killing, but i disagree when you say FEW muslims are doing that. i just listed a long, long list of muslim terrorists organizations that do just that, and that's a lot of people. furthermore, BOTH sides of the media (left and right) are the ones showing this stuff and reporting it, so i think there are quite a few of these guys out there. i dont know if anyone can say if they're in the minority or not.

and actually i think i've heard people talk about how the koran does say it's ok to kill infidels/non-christians. i'll try to look it up.

[jonathan83]

a few thousand muslims isnt a lot.

you're right, it isn't, but i never said that.
there are definitely way more than a few thousand.

[Jim]

i dont recall the nazi's killing in the name of jesus. just because hitler was "christian" doesnt meant he was killing in jesus' name. anyway, i said i wasn't talking about the past anyway, just the present. i dont hear about christians calling for the deaths of muslims.

Are you hiding in a cave, then? Maybe I just heard about it more as my parents both worked in the prison. However, the Neo-Nazi's, the Aryan gangs, and many other white gangs are calling themselves True Christian gangs cleansing all non-believers and infidels (sound familiar?). And then I hear, quite often, from radical Christians all muslims should be killed.

[jonathan83]

i seriously question where people come up with the belief that killing people is encouraged in the quran. if you believe that you should investigate where you heard that from because thats a pretty dangerous assertion and hypocritical

http://www.multiline.com.au/~johnm/submit/koran.htm

2:193 (or 2:189):- ... Fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left.
3:73 (or 3:66):- And believe no one unless he follows your Religion

there is a whole page of this stuff.

[Billy]

i dont recall the nazi's killing in the name of jesus. just because hitler was "christian" doesnt meant he was killing in jesus' name. anyway, i said i wasn't talking about the past anyway, just the present. i dont hear about christians calling for the deaths of muslims.

Luckily, right now, in the present, we are a much more educated people. Once that changes (and it could), christianity will be just as bad. The past is a good example of a time when people weren't as widely educated and did horrible things because of religion that they might have not done otherwise. Exorcisms. Witch Burnings. Oppression of women. All these things and some could argue worse, than what muslims have done currently.

To make a long story short, education is good. Christianity = islam. Both can be good. Both can be bad.

[jonathan83]

Are you hiding in a cave, then? Maybe I just heard about it more as my parents both worked in the prison. However, the Neo-Nazi's, the Aryan gangs, and many other white gangs are calling themselves True Christian gangs cleansing all non-believers and infidels (sound familiar?). And then I hear, quite often, from radical Christians all muslims should be killed.

i dont doubt those people exist, but the number of those people are probably in the thousands, not tens or hundreds of thousands, or millions.

and yes, some radical christians may say muslims should be killed, but they are just that, radical christians.

whereas...the muslims actually have huge, organized organizations for this kinda stuff. its kind of hard to argue that both of these sides are equal jim....

[jonathan83]

Luckily, right now, in the present, we are a much more educated people. Once that changes (and it could), christianity will be just as bad. The past is a good example of a time when people weren't as widely educated and did horrible things because of religion that they might have not done otherwise. Exorcisms. Witch Burnings. Oppression of women. All these things and some could argue worse, than what muslims have done currently.

To make a long story short, education is good. Christianity = islam. Both can be good. Both can be bad.

so are you hinting that muslims aren't as educated, or not as advanced?

yes all that stuff in the past was bad and everyone agrees with that, but muslims are still doing it.

[Testm0nkey]

you're right, it isn't, but i never said that.
there are definitely way more than a few thousand.

yes as i said its the 2nd biggest religion. so you are saying its clear that there are more than a few thousand muslims who are calling out for the killing of christians?

the site you quoted does not seem impartial. i quoted from the quran as well

[Billy]

so are you hinting that muslims aren't as educated, or not as advanced?

yes all that stuff in the past was bad and everyone agrees with that, but muslims are still doing it.

I would like you to tell me, in your own words, the point I was trying to make. And then we'll go from there.

[blaarg]

I would like you to tell me, in your own words, the point I was trying to make. And then we'll go from there.

Ohhh I KNOW I KNOW <raises hand!!!>

[jonathan83]

so you are saying its clear that there are more than a few thousand muslims who are calling out for the killing of christians?

i believe i've said that, yes.

the site you quoted does not seem impartial.

the site i listed comes directly from USC's Muslim Student Association's translation of the Koran. if you think that's impartial, i dont know what else to say.

This post has been edited by jonathan83: Oct 16 2007, 08:11 PM

[Testm0nkey]

i was judging from the look of the page and the highlighted text.

then its his quotes from the quran and mine.
like the bible, there are some contradictions i guess

edit: seems the short snipits are taken out of context and there seems to be a CLEAR bias in that site. as all the quotes are inflammatory when the quran isnt like that overall

[cmac]

a well written very long blog post that might explain a lot about why christians are easy to attack. from an atheists viewpoint.
http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_ch...sts-and-an.html

[cmac]

i think jonathan is explaining pretty well why it's easy to attack christians...

[jonathan83]

i think jonathan is explaining pretty well why it's easy to attack christians...

explain.

This post has been edited by jonathan83: Oct 17 2007, 04:09 PM

[cmac]

i meant you're on the defensive and it's easy to attack people on the defensive. nothing to do with your religion.

from an atheist viewpoint i think it's easy because you say to christians "if god is real then show me. prove it"
then you get all sorts of reasons why god is real, none of which are valid in any sense.
once you explain that their reasons are absurd you get what lance was talking about.
lalalalalalalalala. i'm right you're wrong. it's very easy to attack that.

also there are extremists in any religion so comparing terroists who happen to be muslim to the good christians is a bit weird to me.

[jonathan83]

from an atheist viewpoint i think it's easy because you say to christians "if god is real then show me. prove it"
then you get all sorts of reasons why god is real, none of which are valid in any sense.
once you explain that their reasons are absurd you get what lance was talking about.
lalalalalalalalala. i'm right you're wrong. it's very easy to attack that.

ok but this point has nothing to do with christianity, but more like any religion where one believes in a supreme being, including islam, etc.

[jonathan83]

i meant you're on the defensive and it's easy to attack people on the defensive.

and i dont think i was really on the defensive. i just happened to be online at the same time as those other guys, so we were just going back and forth.

[RitalinJunkie]

Number 1 reason Christians are easy to make fun of is because of dumb shits like this FEAR THE GAWD WARRIOR


the fact that this hasn't been posted in this thread before now makes me sad.