impala post deletion Options

[impala454]

great, so its ok for someone to say they despise the government, but it's not ok for me to despise those that despise the government. fuck you whichever mod it was that deleted my shit (and didn't feel it necessary to let me know why).

[Jim]

great, so its ok for someone to say they despise the government, but it's not ok for me to despise those that despise the government. fuck you whichever mod it was that deleted my shit (and didn't feel it necessary to let me know why).

What'd you say?

[impala454]

no point in sayin it if it's just gonna get deleted by some crybaby censoring hippie free speech hypocrite loser who feels like they have some fuckin power because they're one of 15 people who moderates a message board with 20 active posters.

suffice it to say I took offense to will's comment about how our flag stands for "utter garbage".

edit: better read this one quick before it gets deleted too

[moebary]

no point in sayin it if it's just gonna get deleted by some crybaby censoring hippie free speech hypocrite loser who feels like they have some fuckin power because they're one of 15 people who moderates a message board with 20 active posters.

suffice it to say I took offense to will's comment about how our flag stands for "utter garbage".

edit: better read this one quick before it gets deleted too

pebkac's been on a modding spree (relative to what we usually have)

it's kinda annoying in my personal opinion

somewhat back on topic, my patriotism and my feeling about our current government have nothing to do with each other

[pebkac]

(moving to a&f to avoid derailing the thread)

The text of impala's delted post was

"yay... our country is utter garbage... you might as well vote for hilary, America haters."

great, so its ok for someone to say they despise the government, but it's not ok for me to despise those that despise the government. fuck you whichever mod it was that deleted my shit (and didn't feel it necessary to let me know why).

I wasn't trying to censor , so please quit making this out to be a free speech issue. The rules to NPR states:

2. No personal attacks. Civility is strictly enforced!

Sorry. I was enforcing the rules. Calling people that are disagreeing with you America haters that need to vote for Hillary is not civil.

There was a demand for increased enforcement of the rules, which is exactly what I was doing.

Lastly, I will take your criticism that I should have notified you and attempt to do so in all instances in the future.

This post has been edited by pebkac: Oct 15 2007, 11:21 AM

[Mommy]

I think before anyone goes around modding we should have solid rules, solid mods, etc. until then, I think modding should be kept to changing NSFW images to links in forums other than LRAR

[Billy]

I think only certain people should be modded. Everyone else should be free to say whatever they want. (Just kidding obviously, but I don't live under the delusion that this isn't what goes on anyway when there is heavy modderation).

Oh, and by the way, when people say "we need more moderation, personal attacks and off topic posts need to be deleted", they really mean "everyone else's personal attacks and off topic posts need to be deleted".

[moebary]

my post has things both on and off topic yet you still removed it

this is stupid

if we're going to start eliminating every little off-topic post, sarcastic post, or "drama" post there will be nothing entertaining to read and i'll join the list of people who left

[FORSAKENR320]

i think this whole mod is just gonna piss people so they leave

[moebary]

i think this whole mod is just gonna piss people so they leave

it's starting to piss me off

though your nsfw pics still need to modded

[FORSAKENR320]

it's starting to piss me off

though your nsfw pics still need to modded

agreed



I MUST BE STOPPED!


(actually, i think i've been pretty good about not posting nsfw outside of lrar)

[Oasis]

suffice it to say I took offense to will's comment about how our flag stands for "utter garbage".

Don't have a panic attack over it.

[moebary]

yeah, i can't think of any recent ones either

[pebkac]

my post has things both on and off topic yet you still removed it

this is stupid

if we're going to start eliminating every little off-topic post, sarcastic post, or "drama" post there will be nothing entertaining to read and i'll join the list of people who left

Scroll up. I moved it to this topic.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure it wasn't due to lack of off-topic, sarcastic, or drama posts that people have been leaving.

This post has been edited by pebkac: Oct 14 2007, 09:40 PM

[FORSAKENR320]

Scroll up. I moved it to this topic.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure it wasn't due to lack of off-topic, sarcastic, or drama posts that people have been leaving.

::imitates nick::

bad mod!


NO BISCUIT

[Mommy]

oooo I want a cookie!

[Spectatrix]

We appreciate your feedback, though respectfully disagree. Your post was construed as a personal attack and Pepkac used his discretion in deleting it. I second his decision.

We have been trying to mod more heavily lately, due to people's requests in this vein, using the existing rules and specific noted concerns as guidelines. Things will understandably be a little rough in these first few weeks as mods get a better feel for what modding is wanted/appreciate and what is considered crossing the line.

Often, we choose to split topics if the original topic has gotten derailed, moving the off-topic subject material into its own thread. If, however, the derailment is simply a long series of personal attacks, as is wont to happen on this board, those will likely get deleted. Less frequently, we delete individual posts that are completely irrelevant (spammy in a serious thread) or inflammatory.

We don't, however, have perfect judgement. If you are upset or confused over a post/thread deletion, please feel free to contact any of the global mods to get more information. If it is determined that the deletion was made as a result of error or poor judgement, it can be restored.

[moebary]

though mods should not respond to a complaint like this

Cry me a river.

sweet post count

This post has been edited by moebary: Oct 15 2007, 09:24 AM

[cupcake]

this modding is getting ridiculous...

nothing kills a lively forum like overmoderating.

[Spectatrix]

this modding is getting ridiculous...

nothing kills a lively forum like overmoderating.

I agree that overmoderating is undesirable, but general statements like this don't help us any. Please provide specific instances where you think we moderated unnecessarily.

[Mommy]

Either have specific rules that are to be followed or dont mod at all, except for the NSFW pics.

[pebkac]

though mods should not respond to a complaint like this
sweet post count

I see your point. It was hypocritical of me to edit out impala's post for not being civil then make a remark like that. The line in question has been edited out.

[pebkac]

Either have specific rules that are to be followed or dont mod at all, except for the NSFW pics.

NPR does have rules and has for some time...

http://www.techsans.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=78

Not to mention that there's also a general set of rules for the boards...

http://www.techsans.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=105

[Mommy]

Unfortunately, I think Impala is right. He didnt say a non-political insult. Thats political discussion for ya. I dont know how many political shows you watch, but they arent all rainbows and sunshine.

Also, general rules state this: 7. Trolling and flame wars are looked down upon, so keep such things in check.
He wasnt trolling or flaming. Im sorry that I dont really go by rules that were set up in NPR by a mod, not an admin, and were not voted on by the posting population.

[Spectatrix]

Jessica, those rules were set up a long time ago. At the time, we welcomed comments/criticism regarding them and changed/added/deleted rules accordingly. You even set up your own rules for LRAR, though they're admittedly lax. If you have a problem with a specific rule, let us know by starting a thread in this forum. That's what feedback is for, after all.

We did try a pretty hands-off modding approach (advocated strongly by you, as I recall), but people have complained about that (including Impala, I'd like to note). We're working to adjust our enforcement of the rules and, if necessary, change the rules that are in place. It's a work in progress and we need all the feedback we can get.

Regarding deletion of Impala's post in this particular instance, it was a personal attack. It was not a well-reasoned political comment or insight, just a whiny irrelevant post. Several people have complained about the preponderance of personal attacks, so we're trying to respond accordingly.

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Oct 15 2007, 12:01 PM

[Testm0nkey]

i like these new rules

[pebkac]

Jessica, those rules were set up a long time ago. At the time, we welcomed comments/criticism regarding them and changed/added/deleted rules accordingly. You even set up your own rules for LRAR, though they're admittedly lax. If you have a problem with a specific rule, let us know by starting a thread in this forum. That's what feedback is for, after all.

We did try a pretty hands-off modding approach (advocated strongly by you, as I recall), but people have complained about that (including Impala, I'd like to note). We're working to adjust our enforcement of the rules and, if necessary, change the rules that are in place. It's a work in progress and we need all the feedback we can get.

Regarding deletion of Impala's post in this particular instance, it was a personal attack. It was not a well-reasoned political comment or insight, just a whiny irrelevant post. Several people have complained about the preponderance of personal attacks, so we're trying to respond accordingly.

Not to mention that I did ask for feedback in this thread and the general consensus seemed to be that no new rules were needed, only better enforcement of the existing rules. If you disagree with that approach, feel free to put your feedback there.

This post has been edited by pebkac: Oct 15 2007, 12:35 PM

[Hartmann]

If you'd like to know how things are handled on bigger boards where I have moderated, we have a set of rules, they are somewhat broad (comparable to rules here) and they are enforced across the board on a case by case basis.

In the moderator forums posts, threads, etc. are discussed and handled accordingly. If there is more than one moderator per section of the board then things get discussed before action is taken. If a post is blatantly against the rules, then it gets moved to a forum specifically for posts that are against the rules as a record.

[Mommy]

I guess my problem is that yall complained incessantly about Dogmeat when he never made a personal attack until recently. Yall will never be happy with the rules because someone will always annoy the fuck out of someone else and we will still be in this same situtation.

[jonathan83]

Im sorry that I dont really go by rules that were set up in NPR by a mod, not an admin, and were not voted on by the posting population.

actually those rules were made up by everyone at the time. everyone made suggestions and we voted on them (cant remember if this was in the public forums or the mod-only forums, but either way they were voted on).
i just made the post, dont hate the messenger.

[Oasis]

Just for the record, I don't give a shit if Chuck or anyone else says something rude to me. I found his comment more humorous than rude

[cupcake]

when did everyone on here get such thin-skin?

[chook]

There is a difference between saying someone is a slut and saying their personal beliefs are bs.

[Jim]

A tongue-in-cheek comment isn't a true personal attack.

[Spectatrix]

If you'd like to know how things are handled on bigger boards where I have moderated, we have a set of rules, they are somewhat broad (comparable to rules here) and they are enforced across the board on a case by case basis.

In the moderator forums posts, threads, etc. are discussed and handled accordingly. If there is more than one moderator per section of the board then things get discussed before action is taken. If a post is blatantly against the rules, then it gets moved to a forum specifically for posts that are against the rules as a record.

Could you give some examples of broad rules? I can't speak for the other mods, but I personally am open to revamping our rules structure.

You can't see what goes on behind the scenes here, obviously, but we act similarly in our moderator forum. "Deleted" threads and posts actually get moved to a hidden forum called /dev/null, so that they can be reviewed and, if necessary, restored. In our main moderator forum, we record (almost) every moderating action that we take, whether it's editing a post, splitting/merging threads, deleting stuff, etc. That way Lance and all of the mods can review what everyone is doing and comment accordingly. If a mod is unsure on how to handle an issue, they start a thread in the mod forum first to discuss it with the rest of us.

We are currently discussing the couple of Impala's posts that have been deleted, to see if either Pebkac or I acted inappropriately. They might get restored, though I doubt it. *shrugs*

[Jim]

Again, how is a tongue-in-cheek comment a personal attack?

[Spectatrix]

He was essentially accusing anyone upset with the current state of the government as being a extremist democrat and a hater of America. The comment was inflammatory, polarizing, and did not contribute anything of substance to the discussion.

[TetraGrammaton C...]

cats and kittens, if we pulled off every inane, over-generalizing, stereotyping, unsupported comment, then we would not have much left to read.
i am not saying we should condone attacks on groups, but we cannot let just one mod determine the response of some silent marginalized group.

as far as i am concerned with post deletion (outside of NSFW stuff), i think it should be done on a request only basis, where a particular person feels unfairly insulted or slighted.

otherwise, the board is going to become super-facist and no one will want to say anything controversial.

[cupcake]

cats and kittens, if we pulled off every inane, over-generalizing, stereotyping, unsupported comment, then we would not have much left to read.
i am not saying we should condone attacks on groups, but we cannot let just one mod determine the response of some silent marginalized group.

as far as i am concerned with post deletion (outside of NSFW stuff), i think it should be done on a request only basis, where a particular person feels unfairly insulted or slighted.

otherwise, the board is going to become super-facist and no one will want to say anything controversial.

best post yet on the subject...

you will dilute the board if you smother the autonomous style of the forum.

arguably the most polarizing and offensive things I have read on forums were on techsans...and now there's some new 'high-road' movement? c'mon now...

[Epic]

maybe they are hoping to run everyone off so they don't have to purge us off the board systematically.

so that they can have new exciting members all over again!

its like the compromise in the matrix, everyone else is purged except for a few so that they can restart the system.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

Whose dick do I have to suck to become a mod?

[Hartmann]

The broad rules I spoke about were things like:

1) Stay on topic
2) Don't spam
3) Contribute, don't bash (relates to personal attacks)

The number of posts deleted was actually very low. I just ran a report on the things I delete and the majority of them are spam. There are some threads and posts that went out of their way to attack another member or the site itself but they are rare.

When people go off topic and the thread starts to go that way, it gets split and the conversation continues.

If a thread doesn't fit a forum, it gets moved with a link in the old spot.

We are a pretty polarized group which leads to some of the discourse, but that's to be expected. If a post doesn't add anything to a thread, it usually gets ignored. Now, if tons of people reported it, then something should probably be done.

[Mommy]

cats and kittens, if we pulled off every inane, over-generalizing, stereotyping, unsupported comment, then we would not have much left to read.
i am not saying we should condone attacks on groups, but we cannot let just one mod determine the response of some silent marginalized group.

as far as i am concerned with post deletion (outside of NSFW stuff), i think it should be done on a request only basis, where a particular person feels unfairly insulted or slighted.

otherwise, the board is going to become super-facist and no one will want to say anything controversial.

exactly

[Spectatrix]

Oh, let me suggest a compromise.

1) If an individual post gets reported, it is subject to deletion at a mod's discretion.
2) If a post isn't reported, but it is extremely inappropriate (this one was only borderline questionable, admittedly), a mod may delete it.
3) If a post spawns a long series of personal attacks and off-topic spammy crap, the whole line of it is subject to deletion, even if some of the posts are not terribly bad taken in and of themselves.
(If it just spawns a valid off-topic discussion, the thread will simply get split as appropriate).

So, basically, only flame wars and very over-the-top individual posts will get automatically deleted.

It's up to Lance whether this specific post of Impala's will get restored, seeing as how he's the only one with permissions to take care of it, but I think we'll try to follow the guidelines above from now on. Sound good?

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Oct 16 2007, 11:14 AM

[Mommy]

That does sound better to me

[pebkac]

Sounds good enough to me.

[Spectatrix]

Awesome.

[Billy]

Oh, let me suggest a compromise.

1) If an individual post gets reported, it is subject to deletion at a mod's discretion.
2) If a post isn't reported, but it is extremely inappropriate (this one was only borderline questionable, admittedly), a mod may delete it.
3) If a post spawns a long series of personal attacks and off-topic spammy crap, the whole line of it is subject to deletion, even if some of the posts are not terribly bad taken in and of themselves.
(If it just spawns a valid off-topic discussion, the thread will simply get split as appropriate).

So, basically, only flame wars and very over-the-top individual posts will get automatically deleted.

It's up to Lance whether this specific post of Impala's will get restored, seeing as how he's the only one with permissions to take care of it, but I think we'll try to follow the guidelines above from now on. Sound good?

Though I recognize the difference between point 1 and 2, they both ultimately result in the mod's discretion.

I personally feel that is unfair to everyone who isn't a mod.

[pebkac]

Though I recognize the difference between point 1 and 2, they both ultimately result in the mod's discretion.

I personally feel that is unfair to everyone who isn't a mod.

Well... yeah. I mean, unless we give everyone the ability to edit/delete posts it's always going to ultimately be up to someone's discretion.

[FORSAKENR320]

I agree that overmoderating is undesirable, but general statements like this don't help us any. Please provide specific instances where you think we moderated unnecessarily.

i don't remember any protest rally being required to do such a thing.


i believe cupcakes statements help plenty. he's voicing his opinion, letting you know how the people who are going to be affected by these rules feel.

[FORSAKENR320]

He was essentially accusing anyone upset with the current state of the government as being a extremist democrat and a hater of America. The comment was inflammatory, polarizing, and did not contribute anything of substance to the discussion.

if you went by these ideals, then not a damn one of us would ever be allowed to post

[FORSAKENR320]

Though I recognize the difference between point 1 and 2, they both ultimately result in the mod's discretion.

I personally feel that is unfair to everyone who isn't a mod.

thats where we should choose our mods carefully.

spec is a good mod. i have yet to see an instance where she became biased and over used mod power.

zach has his "fuck it all" days and is prone to wanting to delete everything

and i don't think pebkac has a full grasp of what the mod is supposed to do yet.

as for other things, i don't really know many of the other mods. all i know is that jessica is a harlot of the highest caliber. and if we can't respect that, then we don't have anymore techsans

[Psykopath]

thats where we should choose our mods carefully.

spec is a good mod. i have yet to see an instance where she became biased and over used mod power.

zach has his "fuck it all" days and is prone to wanting to delete everything

and i don't think pebkac has a full grasp of what the mod is supposed to do yet.

as for other things, i don't really know many of the other mods. all i know is that jessica is a harlot of the highest caliber. and if we can't respect that, then we don't have anymore techsans

...

Especially when it comes to your posts.

[chook]

Oh, let me suggest a compromise.

1) If an individual post gets reported, it is subject to deletion at a mod's discretion.
2) If a post isn't reported, but it is extremely inappropriate (this one was only borderline questionable, admittedly), a mod may delete it.
3) If a post spawns a long series of personal attacks and off-topic spammy crap, the whole line of it is subject to deletion, even if some of the posts are not terribly bad taken in and of themselves.
(If it just spawns a valid off-topic discussion, the thread will simply get split as appropriate).

So, basically, only flame wars and very over-the-top individual posts will get automatically deleted.

It's up to Lance whether this specific post of Impala's will get restored, seeing as how he's the only one with permissions to take care of it, but I think we'll try to follow the guidelines above from now on. Sound good?

what about my habeas corpus?

[Spectatrix]

Though I recognize the difference between point 1 and 2, they both ultimately result in the mod's discretion.

I personally feel that is unfair to everyone who isn't a mod.

By an extreme post, I mean something like "cock, ass, titty motherfucker" or "let's rape cats" or something inane like that in the middle of an NPR thread (for instance). In off-topic and LRAR it admittedly gets a little fuzzier. We are planning a board reorganization, though, along the lines of what Impala suggested, so that should make it a little more obvious where goofy, off-the-wall, or downright offensive stuff will be tolerated.

But, granted, a mod is going to have to use their judgement. As long as we have mods that make good decisions consistently, it should be a problem. If there are a lot of complaints about a mod because they made bad moderating decisions, chances are they're going to be de-modded. I think the global mods we have in place are good overall, though perhaps a little rough around the edges still -- we all make the occasional mistake and I am no exception. Some of the forum-specific mods are, admittedly, a little questionable, though I won't name names.

I highly suggest that if you have a problem with any of the mods, you PM or IM Lance and talk to him about it. This is a community effort and we all want to improve things around here.

what about my habeas corpus?

If you are concerned that a post or thread of yours was unfairly/unnecessarily deleted, feel free to start a thread about it here. Or, if you'd prefer, contact one of us privately. We'll be more than happy to review the situation and adjusting our modding practices as appropriate.

[Mommy]

god dammit, Brandon, quit calling me a whore

[Divergent Realit...]

god dammit, Brandon, quit calling me a whore

$50 and i will kick him in the junk.

i accept cash, check and paypal.

[Mommy]

$50 and i will kick him in the junk.

i accept cash, check and paypal.

I'll pay $25, and I need video evidence

[Divergent Realit...]

I'll pay $25, and I need video evidence

$40 and you get a signed dvd.

[pysex]

delete more impala posts imho

[FORSAKENR320]

god dammit, Brandon, quit calling me a whore

are you really gonna make me do the lame come-back "then stop acting like one!"?


because the only cum-back here is yours....



on your back








it's sticky





















..... fuck you