Employee Non-Discrimination Act Options

[theIncredibleEdi...]

OK, so I just wanted to post a link to this petition. Basically, the Employee Non-Discrimination Act would protect GLBT folks from being fired from a job just for being GLBT, BUT politicians are trying to pass a newer version which would exclude those people who are transgendered. So, this petition is to urge law-makers to vote on the ORIGINAL version which is inclusive, rather than the new one. I know some folks are gonna be like, "screw you...." but just thought I would offer it up to those who are supportive.

http://www.nosubstitutes.org/

[Oasis]

Why do you people lump yourselves in with transsexual freaks? Being gay I can understand. Plus, it's socially acceptable enough that it probably won't hurt business to have a gay person working for you. But a tranny? Sorry, the hell if I will EVER shop at an establisment with a goddamned transsexual as an employee. Employees should have every right in the world to fire someone if they're detrimental to their business, and I guarantee tranny freaks are detrimental as hell.

[impala454]

most employers can fire you for pretty much any reason at any time.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

Why do you people lump yourselves in with transsexual freaks? Being gay I can understand. Plus, it's socially acceptable enough that it probably won't hurt business to have a gay person working for you. But a tranny? Sorry, the hell if I will EVER shop at an establisment with a goddamned transsexual as an employee. Employees should have every right in the world to fire someone if they're detrimental to their business, and I guarantee tranny freaks are detrimental as hell.

You know, they're human beings too...and just like gays/lesbians, they didn't choose to be that way. Even within the gay community there is some division...some gays are afraid of them. I know when I lived/worked in Sneed, there was a guy who was going through it. we're not talking about cross-dressers here...these are people who genuinely identify as the opposite gender. Your reaction shows your lack of information/exposure.

[cupcake]

Why do you people lump yourselves in with transsexual freaks? Being gay I can understand. Plus, it's socially acceptable enough that it probably won't hurt business to have a gay person working for you. But a tranny? Sorry, the hell if I will EVER shop at an establisment with a goddamned transsexual as an employee. Employees should have every right in the world to fire someone if they're detrimental to their business, and I guarantee tranny freaks are detrimental as hell.

Transvestites...

I needed a suit to accompany my great uncle's family at the university club for the macy's parade hullabaloo...

This jew broad I hung out with took me to all these schee-schee boutiques in soho to find a suit. One place was out of control, but had a nice suit that I liked. The sales person was 6'6" transvestite goth black chick/man. I do not frighten or intimidate easily, but this motherfuck freaked me out.

Anyway, I went to try the suit on and I pulled the curtain...clear. Clear fuckin curtain. Not only that, but the wall was all mirrored. No biggie to most, but I don't wear panties. I freeball all the time.

Fuck it...I stripped my shit down and heshe said, dang girl where were you hiding all those muscles at?

It was such a mortifying experience, that I bought this ultrafag stretchy gun metal metallic shirt that I have never worn a day in my life; as I type this, it's in my closet and I will take it to the grave.

Just for a reminder of my visual molestation by a giant goth negro tranny...

[impala454]

An excerpt from our employee handbook (very typical of most companies)

Your relationship with <company> is that of an employee-at-will. Your job status does not
guarantee employment for any specific length of time. Your employment with <company> is
entered into voluntarily and both you and <company> are free to end the employment relationship
at any time, for any reason, with or without cause or advance notice

most jobs any of us will ever have will be "at-will" jobs. in which case you don't even have to have a "reason" to be let go.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

Just to let ya know...the term "transvestite" is kind of a dead one....more appropriate is "cross-dresser", which is different from "transgendered."

Cross-dressing is, just that....dressing like the opposite sex. This actually is composed of a lot of heterosexual men.
A transgendered person identifies internally (mentally/emotionally) as the opposite sex.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

An excerpt from our employee handbook (very typical of most companies)
most jobs any of us will ever have will be "at-will" jobs. in which case you don't even have to have a "reason" to be let go.

True, but it's very unlikely that you will be fired with the reason that you are straight/heterosexual.

[impala454]

that's the point... so why the bitching about it? they'll just fire you with no reason.

[cupcake]

so what is a dude with titties and a dick who acts like a chick?

that's a transvestite.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

so what is a dude with titties and a dick who acts like a chick?

that's a transvestite.

thats just complicated...

If they have both sex organs....they're intersexed.

A transgendered person either was born with the parts of the sex opposite to how they identify, or they might have been intersexed at birth and the doctor/parents decided to select the gender FOR the child.

[chook]

that story made my morning.

[pebkac]

An excerpt from our employee handbook (very typical of most companies)
most jobs any of us will ever have will be "at-will" jobs. in which case you don't even have to have a "reason" to be let go.

I agree that most jobs nowadays are recognizing sexuality as something not to be discriminated against, but it's the principle of the thing for me. It's illegal to fire me because of my race, but not because of my sexual preference?

[impala454]

no they can currently fire you for any reason they like... this is a proposal for a bill, and includes everyone except transgendered people. my guess is they just don't see the point. what else will they have to include? people who got an extra cock grafted onto their ass?

[Spectatrix]

Impala, at-will employment does not give employers carte blanche authority to fire whomever they choose for whatever reason they choose. If the employee feels that unfair discrimination was at the heart of their termination, they have legal recourse. This bill seeks to expand that further.

From Wiki:

Although all U.S. states have a number of statutory protections for employees, most wrongful termination suits brought under statutory causes of action use the federal anti-discrimination statutes which prohibit firing or refusing to hire an employee because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, or handicap status. Examples of federal statutes include:

• Equal Pay Act of 1963 (relating to discrimination on the basis of sex in payment of wages);
• Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (relating to discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin);
• Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (relating to certain discrimination on the basis of age with respect to persons of at least 40 years of age);
• Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (related to certain discrimination on the basis of handicap status);
• Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (relating to certain discrimination on the basis of handicap status).

That doesn't mean that an employer can't fire an employee for some reason related to one of these factors. For instance, if the job requires heavy lifting and the employee can't perform that function because of weakness due to age or disability, the employer is within their right to terminate them. Similarly, if an employee is scaring off customers due to an outlandish stereotypical "tranny" appearance, they can still be fired under this new legislation. But they can't be fired just because they're old, homosexual, transgender, black, female, etc.

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Oct 8 2007, 01:21 PM

[impala454]

i understand that. but how does one prove in court that this was the employer's intent?

[theIncredibleEdi...]

i understand that. but how does one prove in court that this was the employer's intent?

Previous actions, comments, etc.

Actually, there was a case not very long ago in CA about a straight guy who was fired from a gay establishment, and he was suing because they SAID they terminated him because he was straight. But some folks are bold enough to say, "we have to let you go because of this..." and they are that bold because they know that right now they can legally get away with it.

[impala454]

well if it's a "gay" establishment... i don't see why that's a problem. for the same reason every dipshit dude that's tried to be a hooters waiter gets turned down.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

well if it's a "gay" establishment... i don't see why that's a problem. for the same reason every dipshit dude that's tried to be a hooters waiter gets turned down.

because its just silly to have to be gay in order to work in a gay bookstore....i mean, hello...how many of you straight guys work as strippers in the gay bars because the money is better. (i've been to many gay bars, and about 90% of those stripper guys turn out to be straight)

[impala454]

well, silly to you but you don't own a gay bookstore... maybe the owner feels a gay person will better serve gay people?

[Testm0nkey]

i have seen quite a few very good looking transexuals. they easily pass as the opposite sex (male and female)

this thread is full to the brim with

[impala454]

i just think it should be fully within a business owner's rights to not want a specific gender at their establishment. especially if that establishment's business is gender related.

[pebkac]

In which case the legislation wouldn't apply.

[Psykopath]

i just think it should be fully within a business owner's rights to not want a specific gender at their establishment. especially if that establishment's business is gender related.

WOW



Want that too, Impala? Slippery, regressive, slope...

[cupcake]

y'all know those places where you have to be hot to work? like that hair place "knockouts" or hooters...

they don't have to hire fat/ugly chicks or some swinging dick like me. so why should someone have to hire some freakshow?

why should anyone have to hire anyone for that matter? and since when did you have a legit excuse to fire anyone? last I heard this was a free-market economy, which means legislation should butt the fuck out.

[Testm0nkey]

are you sure theres a rule like that at hooters?

HIYO

[impala454]

In which case the legislation wouldn't apply.

well there we go

[impala454]

WOW



Want that too, Impala? Slippery, regressive, slope...

oh whatever.. geezus. like hooters would even be in business if half the wait staff were male. or like a buncha redneck dudes with tats & mullets would help sell books at the gay bookstore mentioned.

[Psykopath]

oh whatever.. geezus. like hooters would even be in business if half the wait staff were male. or like a buncha redneck dudes with tats & mullets would help sell books at the gay bookstore mentioned.

hehe, I know. Just took your quote as is, man.

[impala454]

bah

[GOB]

WOW



Want that too, Impala? Slippery, regressive, slope...

let's do the time warp again

[Oasis]

This actually is composed of a lot of heterosexual men.

You always talk about straight guys doing latently homosexual things to try to make your lifestyle appear more acceptable, but you've never provided any examples. Provide some. I've never met a guy who wears women's clothes. Only guys I've seen wear makeup are goth dipshits, and they're screwed up as it is. The closest I've come to seeing straight guys dress like queers are frat morons who wear pink shirts.

A transgendered person identifies internally (mentally/emotionally) as the opposite sex.

Yeah, and that makes them freaks. That is not normal behavior. Just because it's associated with homosexual rights, which is now PC, does not make it right or normal.

No one should be fired because they're gay. What you do in your own house has nothing to do with your ability to do your job.

What they should be able to be fired for is acting gay. You know what I'm talking about. The extreme flamers who grab your hand and say "Oh what EVER girlfriend" when you say something funny. How you act and what you look like as an employee in the service industry is extremely important. Sorry, I'm not eating at a restaurant where the servers are hippies, flamingly homosexual, etc. And as a paying customer, I have the right not to have to put up with that and take my business elsewhere. I refuse to go to Trudy's in Austin because the servers dress like dirty hippies. Sorry, that's unprofessional. On the flip side, I know a gay waiter in Austin and he's my server all the time. I have nothing against him because he acts normal.

If the way a person looks or acts is detrimental to business, the business owner should have every right to can them. Why the hell would you keep an employee who hurts your bottom line? I don't care what the reason is - green hair, a mohawk, a neck tattoo, a flamer, rudeness, dressing sloppy - whatever; You shouldn't be able to hold a job. A job is a privelige, not a right. You play by their rules or you don't play.

Stop looking at this is a gay rights issue and start looking at it as a what's-best-for-the-business issue.

[Spectatrix]

If the way a person looks or acts is detrimental to business, the business owner should have every right to can them. Why the hell would you keep an employee who hurts your bottom line? I don't care what the reason is - green hair, a mohawk, a neck tattoo, a flamer, rudeness, dressing sloppy - whatever; You shouldn't be able to hold a job. A job is a privelige, not a right. You play by their rules or you don't play.

Will, see my earlier post in this thread. Even under legislation such as this, employers will be able to fire employees if they aren't able to perform the duties of their job properly. If they're in customer service and they're scaring off customers, that qualifies.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

You always talk about straight guys doing latently homosexual things to try to make your lifestyle appear more acceptable, but you've never provided any examples. Provide some. I've never met a guy who wears women's clothes. Only guys I've seen wear makeup are goth dipshits, and they're screwed up as it is. The closest I've come to seeing straight guys dress like queers are frat morons who wear pink shirts.
Yeah, and that makes them freaks. That is not normal behavior. Just because it's associated with homosexual rights, which is now PC, does not make it right or normal.

No one should be fired because they're gay. What you do in your own house has nothing to do with your ability to do your job.

What they should be able to be fired for is acting gay. You know what I'm talking about. The extreme flamers who grab your hand and say "Oh what EVER girlfriend" when you say something funny. How you act and what you look like as an employee in the service industry is extremely important. Sorry, I'm not eating at a restaurant where the servers are hippies, flamingly homosexual, etc. And as a paying customer, I have the right not to have to put up with that and take my business elsewhere. I refuse to go to Trudy's in Austin because the servers dress like dirty hippies. Sorry, that's unprofessional. On the flip side, I know a gay waiter in Austin and he's my server all the time. I have nothing against him because he acts normal.

If the way a person looks or acts is detrimental to business, the business owner should have every right to can them. Why the hell would you keep an employee who hurts your bottom line? I don't care what the reason is - green hair, a mohawk, a neck tattoo, a flamer, rudeness, dressing sloppy - whatever; You shouldn't be able to hold a job. A job is a privelige, not a right. You play by their rules or you don't play.

Stop looking at this is a gay rights issue and start looking at it as a what's-best-for-the-business issue.

Well, let's see....take yourself to the Burning Man festival...you can find plenty of straight men who will don women's clothing. Why don't you just look around. Why should I have to do your work for you? I'm already plenty exposed on my own.

And about the bottom part..."normal" I love that word. "normal" Whos definition of normal? Yours? So should we all act how Will wants us to, because for him its normal?

It will be great when one day you wake up and yank your head out of your ass and join us in the real world. A place where not everyone is "normal" In fact, most everyone on techsans could be classified as not normal for some stupid reason.

So back during the Civil Rights movement, should they have excluded people who were TOO black, or albino black people, because they were not normal? Go play some sports.

[Inferia]

You always talk about straight guys doing latently homosexual things to try to make your lifestyle appear more acceptable, but you've never provided any examples. Provide some. I've never met a guy who wears women's clothes. Only guys I've seen wear makeup are goth dipshits, and they're screwed up as it is. The closest I've come to seeing straight guys dress like queers are frat morons who wear pink shirts.
Yeah, and that makes them freaks. That is not normal behavior. Just because it's associated with homosexual rights, which is now PC, does not make it right or normal.

No one should be fired because they're gay. What you do in your own house has nothing to do with your ability to do your job.

What they should be able to be fired for is acting gay. You know what I'm talking about. The extreme flamers who grab your hand and say "Oh what EVER girlfriend" when you say something funny. How you act and what you look like as an employee in the service industry is extremely important. Sorry, I'm not eating at a restaurant where the servers are hippies, flamingly homosexual, etc. And as a paying customer, I have the right not to have to put up with that and take my business elsewhere. I refuse to go to Trudy's in Austin because the servers dress like dirty hippies. Sorry, that's unprofessional. On the flip side, I know a gay waiter in Austin and he's my server all the time. I have nothing against him because he acts normal.

If the way a person looks or acts is detrimental to business, the business owner should have every right to can them. Why the hell would you keep an employee who hurts your bottom line? I don't care what the reason is - green hair, a mohawk, a neck tattoo, a flamer, rudeness, dressing sloppy - whatever; You shouldn't be able to hold a job. A job is a privelige, not a right. You play by their rules or you don't play.

Stop looking at this is a gay rights issue and start looking at it as a what's-best-for-the-business issue.

Is this Texas speaking? I'm scared...

[Spectatrix]

Is this Texas speaking? I'm scared...

Will sometimes exhibits a stereotypical Texas attitude, but no, most of us aren't like that. Even Will isn't most of the time, as far as I can tell.

[Divergent Realit...]

i have seen quite a few very good looking transexuals. they easily pass as the opposite sex (male and female)

this thread is full to the brim with

you do know dying a bird's feathers like that will make it go blind.

way to go.

gg peta.

[moebary]

If the way a person looks or acts is detrimental to business, the business owner should have every right to can them.

this

[Spectatrix]

this

This.

That doesn't mean that an employer can't fire an employee for some reason related to one of these factors. For instance, if the job requires heavy lifting and the employee can't perform that function because of weakness due to age or disability, the employer is within their right to terminate them. Similarly, if an employee is scaring off customers due to an outlandish stereotypical "tranny" appearance, they can still be fired under this new legislation. But they can't be fired just because they're old, homosexual, transgender, black, female, etc.

[impala454]

but christine... if an employer feels his employee is putting a damper on his business because of their sexual preference, he should be able to fire them!

[Testm0nkey]

so because you have visible tattoos you shouldnt be able to have a job?
news to me

[impala454]

who the hell said that?

[moebary]

This.

isn't that the same thing

[Testm0nkey]

who the hell said that?

will

[impala454]

isn't that the same thing

that's what she was pointing out

[impala454]

will

he was saying in cases where it's detrimental to business. he just said it in his will way
you apparently took it personally though

[cupcake]

there are going to be certain jobs that visibly tattooed women (and men too) cannot get. that's part of the social contract you make when you ink up.

[moebary]

that's what she was pointing out

ah, didn't read the first page

[Spectatrix]

I was just trying to point out that legislation like this wouldn't prohibit business owners from firing people for reasons tangentially related to age/gender/race/sexual preference/etc. when there's some issue that legitimately impacts the person's performance or the business as a whole. It just keeps people from going, "well, I don't like you because you're black/a woman/gay, so you're fired".

[Oasis]

And about the bottom part..."normal" I love that word. "normal" Whos definition of normal? Yours? So should we all act how Will wants us to, because for him its normal?

I figured you would get your overly defensive panties in a bunch about this. I'm not talking about normal vs. abnormal. I'm talking about what is "the norm" in society. In a society where 90% of the population is heterosexual (just using the 10% rule that's been commonly thrown around for years), I would consider being straight "the norm." That DOES NOT mean I consider homosexuals or their lifestyle abnormal.

I hang out in places where heterosexuals are the norm, the most commonplace. You probably hang out in places where homosexuals are the most commonplace. But since I hang out in places that are a helluva lot more common than you, maybe it's you who needs to get your head out of your ass and realize that you're surrounded by people who are the minority in American culture.

Go play some sports.

Sure thing. Wanna be my tight end?

[Oasis]

so because you have visible tattoos you shouldnt be able to have a job?
news to me

I don't see too many guys working at Charles Schwab with neck tattoos. It's seen as unprofessional by the clientele they deal with. Then again, I don't see many skinny bespectacled guys wearing Brooks Brothers working as a bouncer at a Slayer concert. See what Cannonball said.

[cupcake]

they aren't letting Marines re-enlist who have sleeves or neck tats. if the Suck isn't lettng that shit fly, why on earth should JP Morgan?

I'm not saying it's right, just saying the way it is.

[jonathan83]

this thread is full to the brim with

eagles? americans? patriots?

[cupcake]

'murrica!

[Testm0nkey]

tattoos are so popular is unexpected that partners in swab DONT have tattoos. im willing to bet theres a few backpieces/sleeves in the mix there
we all know people, or most people probably know people, who have great jobs and have some tattoos. i certainly do
swastikas on their foreheads? probably not but you know what i mean

[cupcake]

right. but I'm referring to visible ones while fully clothed.

my buddy Rob who just got back from Iraq works for JP Morgan and has several tats, but you can't see them in work clothes. I have a great job and my share of ink, but nothing on my forearms, neck, hands, etc.

[impala454]

well i think that's what he meant by visible tats

bah sorry heheh

[Black Bear]

eagles? americans? patriots?

Photoshopped pictures.

[Testm0nkey]

i have a rather large tattoo on my forearm and half sleeve and have never had a problem. ive worked in places with strict "professional attire, grooming" rules. sucks to always be in long sleeves but for 80k/yr ill wear a burka.

a chain of baby skulls on spikes around someones upper neck i can understand them not working in the educational system but i wouldnt consider that the norm. and a person with that tattoo probably has never had interest in having that kind of job

[FORSAKENR320]

a chain of baby skulls on spikes around someones upper neck

THIS SHOULD BE MANDATORY ATTIRE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM