President Ahmadinejad Speaks, at Columbia University and at the United Nations Options

[The Fanatic]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/24/us.iran/index.html

The most interesting part of his entire speech is when the president was questioned about the persecution of women and the execution of homosexuals. At first he avoided the question talking about the execution of drug traffickers and people who "broke the law". When he was finally forced to answer, he claimed that Iran did not have "this problem" aka homosexuals in Iran , unlike the united states and other western nations. I laughed out loud when I heard this ridiculous claim. Perhaps homosexuals are not entirely "open" about their lifestyle in Iran because of executions, thus they do not exist and are not a "problem".

He also kept on claiming that the holocaust needs more research/scientific and scholarly criticism, as is true with other fields such as physics. However, he fails to realize or admit that there is actual forensic, eye-witness, and living people who can account for the holocaust, unlike some principals of physics.

Any other thoughts?

This post has been edited by Dr. Gonzo: Sep 24 2007, 01:48 PM

[impala454]

i've been listening to some of it on the radio. i thought it was cool that they grilled him.

[impala454]

i'm tellin you guys, chris baker's radio show out of houston is awesome.

his show just started, and of course everyone is talkin about this guy and blah blah he shouldn't have been allowed in, shouldn't have been allowed to talk, etc. well chris opens up his show with "why don't we just kill him while he's here?".

go here: http://www.ktrh.com/cc-common/hdradio/ and click listen now 740

[cupcake]

um...I mean, why don't we?

[impala454]

oh i agree, it's just that this radio guy is awesome

[cupcake]

god it would rule if someone just bucked up and popped his ass with a .45...

pay some crackhead a hundred bucks just to roll up there...

[Billy]

I think that would be in bad form and against the American spirit. It would also show that we are more barbaric than the very people we deem as "evil".

We should take his country away from him, give him a 'trial', and then execute him.

[Dogmeat]

I think that would be in bad form and against the American spirit. It would also show that we are more barbaric than the very people we deem as "evil".

We should take his country away from him, give him a 'trial', and then execute him.

You are a fucking fool if you think this country is barbaric.

We have not even started to BEGIN being barbaric.

[pysex]

his country

that is how he treats it

well...that's how most middle eastern countries are run


yeah i wish someone had just popped him in the head...then they declare war on us and we get to turn that piece of crap country into target practice grounds

[schwab]

i am glad they allowed him to speak, it seems against free speech if he couldnt

i am surprised he let people tell him these things

[blaarg]

My favorite quote was this:
"You are either brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated," Bollinger told Ahmadinejad about the leader's Holocaust denial.

[jonathan83]

i am glad they allowed him to speak, it seems against free speech if he couldnt

i am surprised he let people tell him these things

me too

[Billy]

My favorite quote was this:
"You are either brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated," Bollinger told Ahmadinejad about the leader's Holocaust denial.

It doesn't seem like he's denying the holocaust (he says over and over again that he does not deny the holocaust [are seriously all the people in this country retarded?]). He's asking why aren't people allowed to challenge the claim?

And I agree with him. I mean, the big bang happened. There is sufficient evidence to show this. Yet, people challenge the event over and over, and those people aren't arrested. Why are people in Europe arrested for denying the event of the holocaust?

Good question.

His denial of homosexuals in his country is absurd.

[pysex]

i am glad they allowed him to speak, it seems against free speech if he couldnt

i am surprised he let people tell him these things

he's not a u.s. citizen and we don't have to extend our rights to some jerkoff so he can come into our country and spout garbage from his fork tongued mouth

the fact that you would give this man any time of day to hear what he has to say surprises the hell out of me

[Billy]

he's not a u.s. citizen and we don't have to extend our rights to some jerkoff so he can come into our country and spout garbage from his fork tongued mouth

the fact that you would give this man any time of day to hear what he has to say surprises the hell out of me

Explain to me why you would deny him the opportunity to defend himself and his actions? Why not let him explain himself? (just curious)

[THECHICKEN]

lol billy siding with Iran....

shocking

[Billy]

I don't believe I've ever sided with Iran. It would be extremely out of character for me to defend a theocracy. But I atleast know why I dislike him. I want to know why others dislike him. At the moment, it seems to be reasonless hatred.

[Dogmeat]

I don't believe I've ever sided with Iran. It would be extremely out of character for me to defend a theocracy. But I atleast know why I dislike him. I want to know why others dislike him. At the moment, it seems to be reasonless hatred.

Just because he's from a third world islamic country doesn't mean he's a slimebag politician trying to show everyone how big his penis is ....?

[cmac]

You are a fucking fool if you think this country is barbaric.

We have not even started to BEGIN being barbaric.

in my opinion, we are just as barbaric as iraq and iran etc. if not more.

[schwab]

he's not a u.s. citizen and we don't have to extend our rights to some jerkoff so he can come into our country and spout garbage from his fork tongued mouth

the fact that you would give this man any time of day to hear what he has to say surprises the hell out of me

so while we are at it, we should just not listen to anyone who is not american? I am not saying that you need to follow what he says, but why just ignore it? its better to know your enemy than pretend they dont exist.....

and fuck he was letting people criticize him, that would never happen in iran, why the hell wouldnt you want americans to be able to tell him what he is....

seriously....if you want to listen his unfiltered rhetoric, you can hear it all over the news anyways, this is one of the few chances you have to be able to be able to criticize it in front of him

[impala454]

I don't see much point in him coming over here. At best it was a publicity stunt to show his country he's not afraid of the Americans. I thought it was pretty stupid of us to give him so much publicity. This man has said on more than one occasion that he believes the holocaust was a made up story, that he wants to "set the west in flames", and wants to obliterate Israel off the map. He doesn't deserve to have a thread on this message board, much less speak in an open forum in an American university. These kinds of people need to be removed from power. Fortunately, it looks as though this particular guy will probably be removed from power by his own people's vote.

[Billy]

I wonder how much of the things he has "said" the media has made up or misconstrued. Do they really have any credibility at this point? I don't believe so. And that is why I listened to both his speech and his Q&A instead of reading about it from some news source.

So can someone explain the Israeli/Palestinian conflict? Did the Allies just take away land from the Palestinians and give it to what are now the Israeliis? What does he mean when he talks about how the Palestinians are paying the price for World War 2? How are the Palestinians paying for it?

[Testm0nkey]

yes world discussions have no place in american universities

[schwab]

yes world discussions have no place in american universities

exactly...any opinions that aren't "american" are blasphemous

[impala454]

I think you guys may be making a little too general of a statement there. The guy is a dictator who wants to kill us. IMHO, no, that has no place in our universities. Whether they grilled him or not, they're giving him a public stage on our soil to freely speak.

Has anyone figured out what the point of his visit was in the first place?

[schwab]

I think you guys may be making a little too general of a statement there. The guy is a dictator who wants to kill us. IMHO, no, that has no place in our universities. Whether they grilled him or not, they're giving him a public stage on our soil to freely speak.

Has anyone figured out what the point of his visit was in the first place?

he had something to do at the UN aka publicity stunt

eh we wont ever agree on this, i know where you are coming from with this....but it wont change what i think

[Dogmeat]

liberals run universities.

universities also are about the biggest fucking money wasting entities I can think of.

Coincidence?

The only reason that university president did what he did was so he could get his dick massaged by all his colleagues and shit. If it would have been "popular" to sympathize with mackmoud abehglahelkghdg or whoever he is, he would have done that.

the whole thing was retarded.

[impala454]

It's just opinions it's no big deal. In this day and age I guess anything goes if it gets someone in the spotlight.

[Hartmann]

I listened to the whole thing and have to say that the dean at Columbia did a very poor job of asking questions and being tough with Ahmandinejad, he was just as bad as Ahmandinejad.

The president never really answered a single question and when asked whether he thought that Israel should be wiped off the map he replied with a long diatribe about how the issue was about the Palestinians. Then, when asked about supplying weapons to terrorists, he claimed that Iran was the first country to experience terrorism (not true), and that it was Americans who inflicted it upon them.

It was a worthless speech.

[Psykopath]

liberals run universities.

universities also are about the biggest fucking money wasting entities I can think of.

Coincidence?

Aaron...sorry...

but that is about the most dumbfuck "comparison" I've ever seen anyone (Short of either Anne Coulter or Al Franken) even attempt to make.

[Dogmeat]

Aaron...sorry...

but that is about the most dumbfuck "comparison" I've ever seen anyone (Short of either Anne Coulter or Al Franken) even attempt to make.

Prove me wrong

[pysex]

I have no problem with allowing foreign dignitaries the right to speak in America or about American politics. But when we allow an obvious enemy of the United States (someone who potentially jeopardizes our way of life) to come to our own country and speak about our practices is absurd. What makes his speeches any different over here than the shit he spews standing in front of his countrymen?

I know you're trying to be objective and open minded....but for fucking christ sake holy lord jesus and all things good....it's the president of Iran. He's said so much bad shit about America, stood with Hugo Chavez at hate rallies against America, looked at the camera and said he wants to erase the west from existence...AND YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO HEAR WHAT THIS FUCK HAS TO SAY? Do you honestly think you're going to obtain any worthwhile information from an obvious publicity stunt for his own agenda?!!!!!

Next we'll hear that Osama Bin Laden wants to make a fucking speech and you guys will want him to come in so you can "drill" him and ask him questions. We'll be giving him full protection because THAT'S WHAT AMERICANS DO!!Q!!#@!!!!
FUCK THAT




The only question these fucks deserve to be asked is where they want the bullet....in the heart or in the head

[GOB]

next week columbia has fidel castro debating kim jong il

[impala454]

Conan O'Brien's monologue was purty funny:

"If we want to hear a short tempered Iranian man yell at us, we'll take a cab"

[Seeker]

Last time I checked, we all believed in free speech for ourselves, so why not for the Iranian president also?

[impala454]

he's free to speak, but we don't have to give him a platform to do it on. that seems to get confused a lot nowadays.

[Seeker]

You have a right to not give him a platform, but last time I checked Columbia University is a private institution that doesn't take orders from you and can give a speaking platform to whomever they please.

[Psykopath]

Prove me wrong

Government's also waste shit tons of money.

Big corporations also waste shit tons of money.

Doubt every one of those entities in the world are "liberal" (oh deary me, that turrrurist word!).
Get the point?

[Dogmeat]

Government's also waste shit tons of money.

Big corporations also waste shit tons of money.

Doubt every one of those entities in the world are "liberal" (oh deary me, that turrrurist word!).
Get the point?

Yes, governments are a huge waste of money, and universities are by and large government entities ...

Where do you get "big corporations waste shit tons of money" from?

If corporations do this, they rapidly become HIGHLY uncompetitive, and quickly reach their demise. If anything, I think corporations are MUCH less wasteful than government entities because they simply cannot afford to be wasteful.

I think if government agencies were run under the same guidlines and constraints most corporations have to operate under in order to remain competitive, we would see about 1/2 the garbage spending we see from any given government agency.

[The Fanatic]

Let's not forget who the real NON-ELECTED ruler of Iran is:



A few quick points:

Billy, comparing the big bang theory to the holocaust is preposterous. Definitely an apples and oranges thing. We have never observed the big bang. In fact, physics can not even explain the singularity. This is not a bad thing for the big bang, however it falls short in comparison to the holocaust which was widely documented, witnessed and experienced by millions of people.

Secondly, I don't see any problem with Columbia allowing the president of Iran to speak at their university. It is usually a wise idea to at least know something about the person your dealing with, and what better way to do that then to have questions fielded by faculty and students alike . Proving that politicians in Iran are a lot like politicians in America when it comes to answering question about policy.

Thirdly, we can call Iran brutal, evil, barbaric, along with many other things. And I know I am going to get slack for even suggesting that America has something to do with the regime that is in power today. However, we unfortunately do. Remember that revolution against the shah of Iran in 1979? Well we kind of put that dude in power after we helped oust the democratically elected Prime Minister Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh (Which was headed by Kermit Roosevelt Jr, grandson to Teddy) because he nationalized the oil industry (which was controlled by British Petroleum at the time) in Operation Ajax in 1953.

a condition of restoring the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, the U.S. required that the AIOC's oil monopoly lapse. Five major U.S. oil companies, plus Royal Dutch Shell and French Compagnie Française des Pétroles, were designated to operate in the country alongside AIOC after a successful coup.

Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax

So, naturally when the Iranians revolted in 1979 (originally a broad coalition of liberal, socialist, moderates, and unfortunately religious extremists) they were not exactly ethusiastic about the United States. In fact, that probably had a lot do with why they took the hostages.

I guess this is my point. Is Iran a barbaric theocracy with a different ideology then the United States. Yes. Do they want to destroy us? Probably, but I think they should be much more worried about us then we should be worried about them. Basically, this whole going around the world police bullshit is getting us in a lot more trouble in the long run. The short term goals always look more promising to us but is it really worth it in the end? Should we trust Iran? No. But I also don't think we need to judge the regime as harshly as we do considering the implications of the past.

This post has been edited by Dr. Gonzo: Sep 25 2007, 01:04 AM

[blaarg]

But when we allow an obvious enemy of the United States (someone who potentially jeopardizes our way of life) to come to our own country and speak about our practices is absurd.

I'm curious on how Iran can potentially jeopardize our way of life. I have a hard time believing some 3rd world country (regardless of who it is) will destroy the American way of life. I guess we should watch out for the Ugandans next...

Oh btw, my friend came back from Iran. Said that everyone over there thinks that the prez is a puppet anyways and don't particularly care what he says/thinks. Most of the population is more concerned about living day to day than about politics (what a surprise in a poor country). He said that the image of all of Iran being anti-American soldiers willing to die for what they believe in is so ridiculously absurd. Finally, he gave an approximate end to this particular government within 20 years.

Oh and almost all places don't have toilets, so they shit in holes.
And no trashcans in the street so they just throw their trash on the road.

That's about it.

[pysex]

Ummm...

Hugo Chavez publicly spoke and announced he was ready to take any and all Iranian terrorist cells and train them to speak english and act American so he could send them across the Mexican border.


How is Iran not a threat?


The problem I have with countries like that is just what you said. They don't care about politics. They sit around and let these jackasses build networks of government funded terrorists. If they really cared about their country and didn't want us blowing shit up, they'd put an end to the radicalist states.

[cupcake]

in my opinion, we are just as barbaric as iraq and iran etc. if not more.

you want barbaric...visualize what would happen if an american president decided to roll over to iran to give a speech on the american agenda...

some of these posts are indicative of an idealistic and uninitiated youthful american viewpoint. which is not a bad thing...I'd rather have our youth idealistic and full of butterflies than jaded and salty like israel's.

[impala454]

You have a right to not give him a platform, but last time I checked Columbia University is a private institution that doesn't take orders from you and can give a speaking platform to whomever they please.

I wasn't giving an order. I just feel they shouldn't have given him a platform to speak from.

[blaarg]

Ummm...

Hugo Chavez publicly spoke and announced he was ready to take any and all Iranian terrorist cells and train them to speak english and act American so he could send them across the Mexican border.

Can I have a link to the source on this one.

And the part about the country being apathetic towards politics is the most understandable thing in the world. I'm sure if you were an uneducated Iranian whose primary focus is mostly on survival everyday you wouldn't give a shit about politics either.

In addition, I still don't see how they pose an immediate threat to the United States and our way of life and could lead to the downfall of this country...If anything they should be worried about us leading to the end of their country (after all we have a military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, two bordering countries, not to mention a presence in other gulf regions such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar...oh yeah I guess I'm not factoring in all the Iranian bases in Cuba and Canada that pose an immediate threat...)

[impala454]

We (*cough* Bill Clinton *cough*) didn't feel that people like Osama bin Laden were a real threat to us either.

[cupcake]

I don't perceive Iran as an imminent threat.

However, they (the Govt, not people) hate us and our close ally Israel. Aside from speaking at the UN, why should we give them an audience on our land?

It's like inviting some dude who fucked your girlfriend over for dinner. I don't have to be "nice" to anyone.

[blaarg]

We (*cough* Bill Clinton *cough*) didn't feel that people like Osama bin Laden were a real threat to us either.

Ok I think I should have said that Iran isn't a threat to "jeopardize our way of life"
It will take more than a couple of terrorist incidents (whether coming from al Qaeda or little Venezualian trained Iranian terrorists) to bring about that...

[Testm0nkey]

I'm curious on how Iran can potentially jeopardize our way of life. I have a hard time believing some 3rd world country (regardless of who it is) will destroy the American way of life. I guess we should watch out for the Ugandans next...

Oh btw, my friend came back from Iran. Said that everyone over there thinks that the prez is a puppet anyways and don't particularly care what he says/thinks. Most of the population is more concerned about living day to day than about politics (what a surprise in a poor country). He said that the image of all of Iran being anti-American soldiers willing to die for what they believe in is so ridiculously absurd. Finally, he gave an approximate end to this particular government within 20 years.

Oh and almost all places don't have toilets, so they shit in holes.
And no trashcans in the street so they just throw their trash on the road.

That's about it.

americans having no realistic viewpoint on what the rest of the world is like and trusting images a shady media and administration (that has been caught over and over again making up lies to prod the american people) spit out at them?!

no never i dont believe it

[The Fanatic]

americans having no realistic viewpoint on what the rest of the world is like

Hell, why even talk about realistic viewpoints when most Americans can't even point out places in the world

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- After more than three years of combat and nearly 2,400 U.S. military deaths in Iraq, nearly two-thirds of Americans aged 18 to 24 still cannot find Iraq on a map, a study released Tuesday showed.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/02/geog.test/index.html

This article is kind of dated, but I am sure that it is still fairly accurate.

[Hartmann]

Hell, why even talk about realistic viewpoints when most Americans can't even point out places in the world
http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/02/geog.test/index.html

This article is kind of dated, but I am sure that it is still fairly accurate.

Uhhh, that's because the people they're polling, are in Iraq.



Look, the issue isn't free speech. This was a blatant attempt by Iran's president to make a statement on Al-Jazeera by standing up to the great Satan while in his lair and Columbia gave him the doorway. Let him speak all he wants, I just expected more from a free thinking institution who supposedly supports the freedoms granted to us by living in this country. We have (some) gay rights while Iran's president claimed "we have no problem with homosexuality or AIDS" and he didn't mean they were passive about the subject.


He now has a benchmark for his people and we let him voice preposterous comments about the future of Israel and the validity of Palestine. He wants free elections there when he himself wasn't freely elected and his own people hate him. It's almost like he's preparing everyone for some next "act".

I think the issue of the American way of life is not in question. We fear the bad people. We feared Stalin, we feared Hitler, we feared Ho Chi Mihn, etc.

Iran used to be a great place till the Ayatollah. It's the same with Syria. Damascus used to be the go to spot until that country decided it would try to annihilate Israel itself.

[Testm0nkey]

youre right the iraq example were people in the middle east.
its much better that americans in america cant find ohio or new york on a map

[cupcake]

yeah but does anyone really care where ohio is???

[Testm0nkey]

horses damn well care. and im tired of them being discounted

[The Fanatic]

Uhhh, that's because the people they're polling, are in Iraq.

Umm, no they are not.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- After more than three years of combat and nearly 2,400 U.S. military deaths in Iraq, nearly two-thirds of Americans aged 18 to 24 still cannot find Iraq on a map, a study released Tuesday showed.

[Hartmann]

Umm, no they are not.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- After more than three years of combat and nearly 2,400 U.S. military deaths in Iraq, nearly two-thirds of Americans aged 18 to 24 still cannot find Iraq on a map, a study released Tuesday showed.

Well, I was being sarcastic (18-24 years olds are in the military, in Iraq, etc.)

But then Testm0nkey pointed out that in the article they polled people in the Middle East as well.

[The Fanatic]

Well, I was being sarcastic (18-24 years olds are in the military, in Iraq, etc.)

But then Testm0nkey pointed out that in the article they polled people in the Middle East as well.

Ok, got ya on the sarcasm now

But, the article did not mention Iraqis being polled. When the article refers to "in the middle east", it is saying that these are the countries in the middle east that Americans could not identify.

This post has been edited by Dr. Gonzo: Sep 25 2007, 12:46 PM

[Hartmann]

No, they did not.

After re-reading the article for the third time you're right, it's just the way it's worded about the Middle East.

[The Fanatic]

After re-reading the article for the third time you're right, it's just the way it's worded about the Middle East.

Yeah, not the best written article in the world. It kind of reminds me of the segment on Jay Leno called "Jay Walking' where he asks ordinary citizens simple questions that they should know. I don't care who you are, if we are at a war with a country you better damn well know where it is on a map.

[impala454]

still though again with the "we polled 500 people, so that means all of America".

[The Fanatic]

still though again with the "we polled 500 people, so that means all of America".

It's called statistics...

You can't realistically poll every individual in the United States who is between the ages of 18-24. It would be impractical and would cost a fortune.

But I feel like we have had this conversation many times before, so i'll leave it at that.

[impala454]

Yes I have heard of this "statistics" you speak of. It's simply my opinion that a poll of 500 people doesn't necessarily reflect a population of 300 million. Obviously it's not reasonable to poll a large enough number to get an accurate idea, so why bother?

[The Fanatic]

Yes I have heard of this "statistics" you speak of. It's simply my opinion that a poll of 500 people doesn't necessarily reflect a population of 300 million. Obviously it's not reasonable to poll a large enough number to get an accurate idea, so why bother?

Yeah, well you are in the minority of people who do not believe in statistics. I am not going to argue the finer points of statistics because I believe it will be pointless. That's OK I guess...

[impala454]

Yeah, well you are in the minority of people who do not believe in statistics.

This is not true though, please don't put words in my mouth. I simply don't believe blanket representations of our country's population based on a 500 person poll is very accurate. Do you?

[jonathan83]

from front page of www.foxnews.com

[Melanie]

I learned something new... Iran does not have gays. Just a population of very angry, single men and women.

[Billy]

Billy, comparing the big bang theory to the holocaust is preposterous. Definitely an apples and oranges thing. We have never observed the big bang.

I am not going to make a more in-depth rebuttal, but have you read up on the Big Bang before you made this claim? There is quite a bit of observation. I will let the wikipedia entry speak for me. After reading this entry, if you are still convinced that comparing a cosmological observation that is constantly denied by religious followers to an observed historic event that is constantly denied by political opponents is analagous to comparing apples and oranges, I doubt any internet debate will change your mind; nor mine.

I apologize for the tangent.

[THECHICKEN]

I am not going to make a more in-depth rebuttal, but have you read up on the Big Bang before you made this claim? There is quite a bit of observation. I will let the wikipedia entry speak for me. After reading this entry, if you are still convinced that comparing a cosmological observation that is constantly denied by religious followers to an observed historic event that is constantly denied by political opponents is analagous to comparing apples and oranges, I doubt any internet debate will change your mind; nor mine.

I apologize for the tangent.

Pretty sure most agree you are comparing apples to oranges (scientific theory to historical fact)


But nothing anyone says will change your mind so alas, what is the point.

[Billy]

Pretty sure most agree you are comparing apples to oranges (scientific theory observation to historical fact)
But nothing anyone says will change your mind so alas, what is the point.

Then most are wrong.

[The Fanatic]

This is not true though, please don't put words in my mouth. I simply don't believe blanket representations of our country's population based on a 500 person poll is very accurate. Do you?

Yes, as long as the sample was completely random

And you obviously don't believe in statistics since using representative samples is part of that discipline.

[THECHICKEN]

Then most are wrong.

"im not crazy, everyone else is"

[Spectatrix]

Yes I have heard of this "statistics" you speak of. It's simply my opinion that a poll of 500 people doesn't necessarily reflect a population of 300 million. Obviously it's not reasonable to poll a large enough number to get an accurate idea, so why bother?

It comes down to proper sampling technique, Impala. If subjects are chosen at random, the sample should be representative of the population, within a certainty of a few percentage points. There is a large amount of research devoted to proper sampling technique, but a lot of national surveys are conducted over the telephone, with numbers chosen randomly by a program.

That having been said, it's certainly possible for a sample to not closely represent the population, even if traditional sampling theory is used. That's why statistics are more likely to be trusted if a similar range of numbers has been discovered though multiple, independently-conducted surveys.

[Billy]

"im not crazy, everyone else is"

Witty quotes won't make you any more educated on the topic.

If you would like to know more about the Big Bang, I would recommend talking to Dr. Anderson or take his Nuclear Engineering course (you're still at Tech right?). Honestly, he has more credibility than anyone on this message board. So if it's between some law student or a pot heat claiming the Big Bang is just theory and him saying it isn't, I think I'm going to believe him. But he must be crazy since Seth knows everything about everything.

[GOB]

my cousin beth goes to columbia, she posted some pictures on facebook:

people gathering to watch the speech outside


hippies not working


more hippies not working


spot the secret service and win $5


spot the nypd and win $10


probably written by some hippie/immigrant

[The Fanatic]

HAHAHA

He misspelled Bin Laden!

[impala454]

Yes, as long as the sample was completely random

And you obviously don't believe in statistics since using representative samples is part of that discipline.

there you go again, putting words in my mouth. let me ask you something, where do you think they come up with "representative samples" (for these types of polls)?

[THECHICKEN]

Witty quotes won't make you any more educated on the topic.

If you would like to know more about the Big Bang, I would recommend talking to Dr. Anderson or take his Nuclear Engineering course (you're still at Tech right?). Honestly, he has more credibility than anyone on this message board. So if it's between some law student or a pot heat claiming the Big Bang is just theory and him saying it isn't, I think I'm going to believe him. But he must be crazy since Seth knows everything about everything.

Because taking a class on the THEORY of big bang (since we can't ACTUALLY GO BACK AND WATCH), makes your talking about apples and oranges different.

You think questioning scientific THEORY is the same as questioning something that is FACT and not in the abstract. Holocaust is well documented, witnessed, etc.

No matter how well the big bang is theorized (which im sure its all but sure in some eyes) it still is an abstract, non-witnessed, and non-finalized theory. The point of science is to never declare something a fact. Yet the holocaust has nothing to do with the idea of science... it DID happen through well documented WITNESSES

So unless your prof. can dig up some eye witnesses or what not... you really can't compare the two...

im honestly not sure why i had to even explain this

ok, back to my "pot" and law school writing(anyone have any good information on soldiers having their families being deported?)

[The Fanatic]

Because taking a class on the THEORY of big bang (since we can't ACTUALLY GO BACK AND WATCH), makes your talking about apples and oranges different.

You think questioning scientific THEORY is the same as questioning something that is FACT and not in the abstract. Holocaust is well documented, witnessed, etc.

No matter how well the big bang is theorized (which im sure its all but sure in some eyes) it still is an abstract, non-witnessed, and non-finalized theory. The point of science is to never declare something a fact. Yet the holocaust has nothing to do with the idea of science... it DID happen through well documented WITNESSES

So unless your prof. can dig up some eye witnesses or what not... you really can't compare the two...

im honestly not sure why i had to even explain this

ok, back to my "pot" and law school writing(anyone have any good information on soldiers having their families being deported?)

Just going to add to what you said. According to Karl Popper, the purpose in constructing scientific theory is falsifiability. If a theory is designed which can not be falsified, then it is not a scientific theory. Basically, there is no truth in science. Instead, there are only theories which have not yet been falsified. Taking this into account, there is a lot of evidence for the big bang. However at this juncture, there is no way to ever prove that the big bang occurred for one hundred percent. Some people search for truth, while others simply admit that there is no absolute truth. The Big Bang rests on the theory of relativity. Now, while this remains the fundamental paradigm through which the world of physics is viewed and explored, someday it could be replaced by a more relevant theory of "mostly everything". This is the very nature of the "new religion" known as science.

Now the main point is, there may be all these mathematical formulas, theory, and evidence to support that the big bang COULD have happened. And while I believe it is certainly a possibility, I pride myself on admitting that there are some things that we can never possibly comprehend. At least not in our current biological and technological molds. Has the Big Bang been witnessed? No. But pictures speak a thousand words...





VS.



bang...



What other research needs to be conducted?? Scholarly scrutiny could lead to dangerous propositions that the holocaust was a massive international hoax to implant some sort of Zionic world conspiracy. As time flows, memories become dull as the generations march on. In closing, there is no need to do put the holocaust under the same scrutiny as other disciplines because it differs on fundamental principles. It is much closer to the human consciousness and grasp than lofty ideas of universal creation.

This post has been edited by Dr. Gonzo: Sep 25 2007, 10:25 PM

[Billy]

Because taking a class on the THEORY of big bang (since we can't ACTUALLY GO BACK AND WATCH), makes your talking about apples and oranges different.

You think questioning scientific THEORY is the same as questioning something that is FACT and not in the abstract. Holocaust is well documented, witnessed, etc.

No matter how well the big bang is theorized (which im sure its all but sure in some eyes) it still is an abstract, non-witnessed, and non-finalized theory. The point of science is to never declare something a fact. Yet the holocaust has nothing to do with the idea of science... it DID happen through well documented WITNESSES

So unless your prof. can dig up some eye witnesses or what not... you really can't compare the two...

im honestly not sure why i had to even explain this

ok, back to my "pot" and law school writing(anyone have any good information on soldiers having their families being deported?)

So in other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

Surprise, surprise.

And by the way, the Big Bang is usually just refered to as the Big Bang. The 'Theory' was dropped quite a bit of time ago once the mathematical predictions made in the 60's came true.

You seem to be stuck on "witnesses". As in, nothing is proven unless witnessed. Unfortunately, science witnesses very few things, such as the electron. However, the electron is proven to exist via mathematical models and experimentation. Its behavior is predicted, and then that prediction is observed. Because of the observation of the prediction, the electron is considered to be proven to exist, though no one has ever "seen" one.

The Big Bang is the same way. Because it is proven mathematically, and predictions made about the universe based on the original theory behind the Big Bang was observed, it is considered proven that the Big Bang existed.

This is too much for you to understand because A) You do not have a background in science and B) Being wrong on Techsans is worse than death (even if it's about a subject you were completely talking out your ass about anyway).

But please continue. I always welcome the affimation one is an idiot.

[THECHICKEN]

So in other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

Surprise, surprise.

And by the way, the Big Bang is usually just refered to as the Big Bang. The 'Theory' was dropped quite a bit of time ago once the mathematical predictions made in the 60's came true.

You seem to be stuck on "witnesses". As in, nothing is proven unless witnessed. Unfortunately, science witnesses very few things, such as the electron. However, the electron is proven to exist via mathematical models and experimentation. Its behavior is predicted, and then that prediction is observed. Because of the observation of the prediction, the electron is considered to be proven to exist, though no one has ever "seen" one.

The Big Bang is the same way. Because it is proven mathematically, and predictions made about the universe based on the original theory behind the Big Bang was observed, it is considered proven that the Big Bang existed.

This is too much for you to understand because A) You do not have a background in science and Being wrong on Techsans is worse than death (even if it's about a subject you were completely talking out your ass about anyway).

But please continue. I always welcome the affimation one is an idiot.

lol if only being a pompous ass, who thinks he knows it all, equaled being right. You make a completely retarded statement, fail to do anything to show how it REMOTELY makes since except to try and act as though a theory is anything but.

Trying to paint me as someone who doesn't know anything about the big bang (or someone who questions it) is laughable. You trying to say that well established science being questioned shows that it is reasonable to question THE HOLOCAUST for purely RACIST reasons is completely illogical and even more laughable. Well documented history that is simply fact is not the same as a scientific theory that by its very nature should ALWAYS be questioned in comparison with newer thoughts and ideas on HOW it happened (not that it DID happened)

God, why do i keep wasting my time? Here i'll go ahead and prepare your answer to save us the time:
"omg, even though im the only one that is believing this crap , you are wrong because the big bang happened and you don't know about it and smoke pot (which i don't haha)"

So go learn about the big bang, and then you'll see that my position is completely correct and that everything you are saying makes you look like a complete retard. And since your lack of knowledge is creating this problem i suggest you go take a class with... wait, scratch that, go hang with a survivor of the holocaust and then sit back and describe how the Big Bang means that everything that they went through should be questioned by racist idiots...

[The Fanatic]

So in other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

Surprise, surprise.

And by the way, the Big Bang is usually just refered to as the Big Bang. The 'Theory' was dropped quite a bit of time ago once the mathematical predictions made in the 60's came true.

You seem to be stuck on "witnesses". As in, nothing is proven unless witnessed. Unfortunately, science witnesses very few things, such as the electron. However, the electron is proven to exist via mathematical models and experimentation. Its behavior is predicted, and then that prediction is observed. Because of the observation of the prediction, the electron is considered to be proven to exist, though no one has ever "seen" one.

The Big Bang is the same way. Because it is proven mathematically, and predictions made about the universe based on the original theory behind the Big Bang was observed, it is considered proven that the Big Bang existed.

This is too much for you to understand because A) You do not have a background in science and Being wrong on Techsans is worse than death (even if it's about a subject you were completely talking out your ass about anyway).

But please continue. I always welcome the affimation one is an idiot.

Science can not "prove" anything.

[chook]

at least he came and said what he believed, even if its crazy shit.

[FORSAKENR320]

He doesn't deserve to have a thread on this message board, much less speak in an open forum in an American university. These kinds of people need to be removed from power.

when the world defeated germany in wwI these feelings were pretty much the same. we took and denied so much from germany economically and politically that the only way their country COULD break out of the rut was through war.

i'm not claiming that this person shouldn't be taken from power, but there should be limitations to how much harm we wish to inflict. with sentiments like yours prominant, it would just be a repeat of history.

[rabble]

today is the day, I can feel it. The day for what I dunno, but its today.

[Dogmeat]

this guy is seriously the biggest political boner I've ever seen.

I mean seriously, who the FUCK takes this jackass seriously?

He acts like "Oh well the US lies so I can too! YAY!"

But he's TERRIBLE at it so he just looks like a schmuck!

I mean god dude, if you're gonna come over here and spew a bunch of horse shit propaghanda, at least make it SOMEWHAT believable instead of just babbeling on about the lack of gay dick you get in your country.

Fucking idiot! BAH!

[Hartmann]

when the world defeated germany in wwI these feelings were pretty much the same. we took and denied so much from germany economically and politically that the only way their country COULD break out of the rut was through war.

i'm not claiming that this person shouldn't be taken from power, but there should be limitations to how much harm we wish to inflict. with sentiments like yours prominant, it would just be a repeat of history.

You are implying that the U.S. was actively trying to cut Germany off, which is exactly opposite of what happened.

We tried to separate ourselves as much as possible from the proceedings of the Versailles Treaty as we wanted to keep our isolationism and have continued trade with Germany.

Germany was in a rut just like the U.S. was but the difference was that Germany used creation of military machines to break themselves out while the U.S. created an industrial state that did not include purely military purposes.

Hitler wanted war simply because he was power hungry. It had nothing to do with trying to break his country out of a rut. If he wanted to get his country out of a rut he would have surrendered as soon as the British burned Cologne to the ground.

[Hartmann]

Also, Ahmadinejad's speech to the U.N. was pretty appalling. Nothing useful was said, just a diatribe against Israel and the west.

He pretty much said "F-you, we'll continue our nuclear programs till you bomb us"...

[impala454]

i'm not claiming that this person shouldn't be taken from power, but there should be limitations to how much harm we wish to inflict. with sentiments like yours prominant, it would just be a repeat of history.

limitations like what? it's thoughts like this that will be our downfall "well, just because he wants to commit genocide and destroy another country and set the west in flames doesn't mean we should attack him."

[FORSAKENR320]

You are implying that the U.S. was actively trying to cut Germany off, which is exactly opposite of what happened.

We tried to separate ourselves as much as possible from the proceedings of the Versailles Treaty as we wanted to keep our isolationism and have continued trade with Germany.

Germany was in a rut just like the U.S. was but the difference was that Germany used creation of military machines to break themselves out while the U.S. created an industrial state that did not include purely military purposes.

Hitler wanted war simply because he was power hungry. It had nothing to do with trying to break his country out of a rut. If he wanted to get his country out of a rut he would have surrendered as soon as the British burned Cologne to the ground.

sorry, misinterpretation. i ment "we" as "the rest of the world" not just america. my bad.

[Billy]

... and you don't know about it and smoke pot (which i don't haha)"

Being that you've remarked about this twice (me claiming you smoke pot) tells me you don't have the reading comprehension necessary to comment on my posts.

[THECHICKEN]

Being that you've remarked about this twice (me claiming you smoke pot) tells me you don't have the reading comprehension necessary to comment on my posts.

Weak attempt at shit talk (to avoid your previous stupid argument) noted.

[FORSAKENR320]

the 2 of you need to shut up and start penis waggling already

[Billy]

Weak attempt at shit talk (to avoid your previous stupid argument) noted.

How can you possibly understand my argument if you can't even read the posts I make?

I wouldn't call that weak. The argument isn't stupid. The big bang isn't any more of a theory than the "theory" of gravity. Easily observable, difficult to understand.

Anyway, the whole point of my first post was to point out the absurdity of denying anything for political gain. I used an example that struck home for many of you. You can go on and on about how you think the big bang is just theory and there is doubt that it happened, but I promise, you're just as absurd as someone who denies the holocaust happened. But whatever. I rest my case.

[impala454]

You don't have to be a theoretical physicist to know for a fact that the holocaust happened. And I don't see how it's absurd for an Islamic leader who's already said he wants Israel wiped off the map to deny the single worst series of events that's ever happened to the Jews.

[chook]

Just remember Billy its unpatriotic to question anything!

[FORSAKENR320]

You don't have to be a theoretical physicist to know for a fact that the holocaust happened. And I don't see how it's absurd for an Islamic leader who's already said he wants Israel wiped off the map to deny the single worst series of events that's ever happened to the Jews.

you mean other than the countless other times jews have been persecuted...

i'm sure than whole egyptian slavery thing bit pretty hard....

















geez, you'd think they'd be used to it by now or something

[The Fanatic]

How can you possibly understand my argument if you can't even read the posts I make?

I wouldn't call that weak. The argument isn't stupid. The big bang isn't any more of a theory than the "theory" of gravity. Easily observable, difficult to understand.

UM no.

I observe gravity EVERY second of every day. I have never observed the big bang. Major difference right there. I don't know why you think theory is such a dirty word.

[Hartmann]

sorry, misinterpretation. i ment "we" as "the rest of the world" not just america. my bad.

I figured it was, just wanted to clarify. I know you are somewhat of a history buff like myself.

[FORSAKENR320]

I figured it was, just wanted to clarify. I know you are somewhat of a history buff like myself.

yarp