Blu Ray vs HD-DVD Options

[impala454]

I know we've had this question before, but it's been quite a while. Just curious what you guys think. There's a lot of stuff to consider, from cost to manufactur to cost of the players, etc.

[pebkac]

I'd go with blu-ray.

The players are more expensive. But if you've got the money to waste on a $3000 TV, I don't know what there is to complain about.

[zetec]

Honestly, i think the formats will coexist for a while. We have SD and Compactflash, and even fucking Memsticks, right? Hell, you can still even find miniDiscs if you know where to look. (Radio stations love'em.) Why not video disc formats?. The point will eventually become moot when dual format players become ubiquitous and cheap.

Only problem is that the slow rollout of HDTVs is even furthering the rollout/pricedrops of HDDVD/BVDs.

[Divergent Realit...]

give it a couple years.

[Inferia]

Isn't the porn industry supporting HD-DVD, which I've been told means that HD-DVD will win.

[Divergent Realit...]

Isn't the porn industry supporting HD-DVD, which I've been told means that HD-DVD will win.

they have been supporting such things.

we will have to see how this pans out.

[impala454]

that's what happened in the beta vs VHS war... the blu ray peeps shunned the pr0n industry at first but I think they've since rectified the issues and there's plenty of BD porn out there. i peruse AVSForum all day and it would seem that way more HD DVD stand alone players have been sold than blu ray. I honestly just don't see people going out and buying a PS3 just to watch blu ray movies. It's kinda akin to how it's taken so long for the HDTV craze to take hold, people don't realize how awesome it is until they see it for themselves. retailers like wal mart will be the determining factor, and right now they have a $500 BD player and a $300 HDDVD player.

[impala454]

just went and got 300 at lunch time, they have a SD/HD DVD combo disc for $34. kinda handy I think.

[pebkac]

that's what happened in the beta vs VHS war... the blu ray peeps shunned the pr0n industry at first but I think they've since rectified the issues and there's plenty of BD porn out there. i peruse AVSForum all day and it would seem that way more HD DVD stand alone players have been sold than blu ray. I honestly just don't see people going out and buying a PS3 just to watch blu ray movies. It's kinda akin to how it's taken so long for the HDTV craze to take hold, people don't realize how awesome it is until they see it for themselves. retailers like wal mart will be the determining factor, and right now they have a $500 BD player and a $300 HDDVD player.

You'd be surprised what the markup is on an HD Television or really any piece of HD equipment is. Price isn't necessarily the biggest selling point for people who buy HD equipment.

[impala454]

the markup isn't much. i worked in an electronics store before. they make all their money by selling you cables and speakers and car audio stuff. best buy's markup on large electronics like TVs, computers, etc is 5%. their markup on the 8' monster HDMI cable they insist you need with that TV is about 3000%.

but i'm not really sure how markup fits into this... what matters is the price to the consumer. the bottom line is that people will not pay 20% more for a BD player.

[pebkac]

the markup isn't much. i worked in an electronics store before. they make all their money by selling you cables and speakers and car audio stuff. best buy's markup on large electronics like TVs, computers, etc is 5%. their markup on the 8' monster HDMI cable they insist you need with that TV is about 3000%.

but i'm not really sure how markup fits into this... what matters is the price to the consumer. the bottom line is that people will not pay 20% more for a BD player.

The markup on an HD television is over 30% at CompUSA. And from what I'm told by people that have worked at Best Buy and Circuit City, it's pretty much the same at both of those places. We have one HD television at CompUSA that has a $100 spiff. And the HE department at Circuit City is the only department that still gets commission. HD televisions are very lucrative and that's why a lot of the major retailers focus on them so much.

(Yes, you are right though. Computers do have a very small markup as do digital cameras. Upgrades have decent markup and networking equipment is the highest markup there is other than cables and televisions)

EDIT: Here's the same TV at CompUSA and Best Buy. Same price. And I can guarantee you that the markup on this TV is about $900 at CompUSA.

This post has been edited by pebkac: Aug 15 2007, 09:55 PM

[impala454]

well it must have drastically changed since i worked at a best buy (admittedly a long time ago). when i was there it was like: TVs, computers, appliances, basically any large items, were only about 5% markup. av components maybe about 10%, speakers, car stereo stuff, about 20-25%, and any kind of cabling/accessories literally, not joking, around 2000-3000% (i would bring $600 worth of cable to the register and pay about $30), and i'm sure it's gotten even worse with these friggin $150 HDMI cables. btw if anyone is looking for good prices on cables go to www.monoprice.com, awesome site.

[impala454]

Paramount and Dreamworks dump Blu Ray and go exclusively HD-DVD

[impala454]

here's another article
http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9762761-7.html

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation citied lower manufacturing costs of the HD DVD discs and lower prices for its players as reasons why deciding to go with the format.

[impala454]

pretty funny lil pic someone posted on this news:

[impala454]

The Toshiba HD-DVD player is currently the best selling piece of electronics on Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/

[Seeker]

Personally, I'd go with HD-DVD. It's a more open format, less proprietary, and includes less DRM.

Sony is pushing Blu-Ray, that's reason enough right there to support HD-DVD instead.

For those of you intelligent enough to get what I'm saying:
Blu-Ray = Betamax
HD-DVD = VCR

[impala454]

yeah sony was actually the ones behind beta... guess they didnt learn

[zetec]

people are still talking about this?

Honestly, I think both formats will survive for quite some time. Everybody remember DVD+R and DVD-R? They're still both around, it's just pretty much everything can play/record both of them now. Each had it's perks (+'s were better at video, IIRC, and -'s were cheaper to make) but the creation of dual-format combo drives really kinda killed any competition.

Really, if one format is to eventually be declared a winner in this, it'll be the format that lowers prices on the discs first -- when they're cheap enough, and enough dual-format players are ubiquitous (they're already out there, BTW), people are going to buy whichever format is cheaper, since they won't have dedicated hardware.

And nobody better throw out that porn supports HD-DVD -- that's a piece of shit argument.

A) I'm not going to pay for high-def porn
B) especially when the internet can get it to me for free
C) especially since the porn industry releases more movies than any other film industry (you should see the release groups race XXX releases on some of the private topsites)
D) before VHS, there WAS no way to watch porn at home -- only in a seedy pee-wee herman-busted-style theater.
E) Once again, the internet and even Pay-Per-View has replaced this, not to mention DVD's are waaaaay cheaper, especially considering it's fucking spankbait.

[impala454]

people are still talking about this?

geez. is HD optical disc technology old to you now?

Honestly, I think both formats will survive for quite some time. Everybody remember DVD+R and DVD-R?

yeah, they played in the same drives & players. The difference between them is miniscule. HD DVD and BD are completely different formats. They do not play in the same players and have completely different features and setups. One or the other will "win". There's no way in hell there will be major production continuing on for both of these completely different formats.

Really, if one format is to eventually be declared a winner in this, it'll be the format that lowers prices on the discs first

so if the player is 50% more, but the discs are 2% cheaper, you think that'll sell them?

-- when they're cheap enough, and enough dual-format players are ubiquitous (they're already out there, BTW)

there is (to my knowledge) a total of 1. it is something like $900, and has received horrible reviews.

, people are going to buy whichever format is cheaper, since they won't have dedicated hardware.

right, so if one is cheaper and people are buying it up, why the hell would movie studios & publishers continue to release the other format??

And nobody better throw out that porn supports HD-DVD -- that's a piece of shit argument.

it was the determining factor in beta vs vhs

A) I'm not going to pay for high-def porn

do you not think people pay for SD porn already?

especially when the internet can get it to me for free

you can get SD movies for free too, yet strangely enough, DVDs still sell

C) especially since the porn industry releases more movies than any other film industry (you should see the release groups race XXX releases on some of the private topsites)

exactly so... if they release more films than any other industry... how would them supporting HD-DVD be a bad argument?

D) before VHS, there WAS no way to watch porn at home -- only in a seedy pee-wee herman-busted-style theater.

E) Once again, the internet and even Pay-Per-View has replaced this, not to mention DVD's are waaaaay cheaper, especially considering it's fucking spankbait.

what does this have to do with anything?

the internet and pay-per-view have replaced what? and of course SD DVDs are waaay cheaper... you're talking about a 640x480 picture vs a 1920x1080x2 amount more pixels. i'd be willing to be that HD porn will boost porn sales insanely




is there a f'n quote limit or somethin? i swear i don't see where i missed a bracket or slash.

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Aug 29 2007, 06:53 AM

[GOB]

it's a nerd overload

[impala454]

if there's a quote limit that's dumb... it doesn't save the server anything...

[Seeker]

you forgot to close one of your quotes and it fucked them all up

[impala454]

dammit i thought i had it... guess i'll check again

[zetec]

impala: shut up.

let people voice their opinions.

post your own opinions.

just stop trying to be a douchebag and be 100% right about everything. If you have a crystal ball and can see who wins the format war, please, enlighten us. otherwise, shut the fuck up.

This is the internet. People post their opinions, not their dissertations. please don't dissect our paragraphs, we don't do that to yours. We don't have the time or the patience, and it's somewhat disturbing that you do.

seriously, this whole "I'm right, you're wrong and here's why, specifically this typo in paragraph 2, sentence 3" attitude you have going on has gotten VERY old.

This post has been edited by zetec: Aug 29 2007, 12:56 AM

[Spectatrix]

Nope, looks like there is indeed a quote limit (10). You were one over the limit. I combined the last two so that your entire post looks cleaner.

[impala454]

impala: shut up.

let people voice their opinions.

post your own opinions.

just stop trying to be a douchebag and be 100% right about everything. If you have a crystal ball and can see who wins the format war, please, enlighten us. otherwise, shut the fuck up.

This is the internet. People post their opinions, not their dissertations. please don't dissect our paragraphs, we don't do that to yours. We don't have the time or the patience, and it's somewhat disturbing that you do.

your "opinion" that you post is coming on here to be an asshole, so don't expecting anything less in return. this is a discussion board, the point is to discuss things. if you feel you've completely explored the topic and have no further comments that's fine, but that's no reason to belittle those that are still discussing the topic. "People are still talking about this?"... yeah motherfucker we're talkin about it... if you don't wanna talk about it feel free not to post!
If you get upset when you have a comment refuted as incorrect then you got a couple of choices: 1. don't get upset about it, 2. do a little more research before you post, 3. don't pull stuff outta your ass.

seriously, this whole "I'm right, you're wrong and here's why, specifically this typo in paragraph 2, sentence 3" attitude you have going on has gotten VERY old.

i don't point out typos. i do the long string of quotes because it's easier to follow, and easier to address something specifically that i want to address. maybe you see it as me being a know it all, but i see it as keeping misinformation from being construed as fact by those who may not know otherwise. people take things they read on the internet as fact without question nowadays and i personally feel that anything that's remotely inaccurate needs to be refuted.


and thanks christine i coulda sworn i had a matching /quote for every quote. i wonder what kinda crap code invision put in this thing where they felt the need for a quote limit. you'd think the bb code segments would be nothing more than a quick string replace... /shrug.

[Spectatrix]

I think the quote thing is an admin setting. I seem to recall seeing such in Invision 1.3, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Seeker]

quote limit upped to 15

[impala454]

woot... now i can chop up teh posts even more

[pysex]

i prefer hd-dvd over blu-ray simply because i detest sony in every way

[Seeker]

i prefer hd-dvd over blu-ray simply because i detest sony in every way

win

[impala454]

i've only had 2 (out of probably 30) sony items i have been completely satisfied with.

[zetec]

your "opinion" that you post is coming on here to be an asshole, so don't expecting anything less in return. this is a discussion board, the point is to discuss things. if you feel you've completely explored the topic and have no further comments that's fine, but that's no reason to belittle those that are still discussing the topic. "People are still talking about this?"... yeah motherfucker we're talkin about it... if you don't wanna talk about it feel free not to post!
If you get upset when you have a comment refuted as incorrect then you got a couple of choices: 1. don't get upset about it, 2. do a little more research before you post, 3. don't pull stuff outta your ass.
i don't point out typos. i do the long string of quotes because it's easier to follow, and easier to address something specifically that i want to address. maybe you see it as me being a know it all, but i see it as keeping misinformation from being construed as fact by those who may not know otherwise. people take things they read on the internet as fact without question nowadays and i personally feel that anything that's remotely inaccurate needs to be refuted.
and thanks christine i coulda sworn i had a matching /quote for every quote. i wonder what kinda crap code invision put in this thing where they felt the need for a quote limit. you'd think the bb code segments would be nothing more than a quick string replace... /shrug.

you're doing it again. quit being such a whiny bitch that has to have the last word. nobody cares. Trust me, you don't even want to know what's said about you in the moderators forum, people are sick of you trying to prove your internet IQ.

[Seeker]

hd-dvd for teh win, blu-ray = dead

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/format-wars/fir...7000-294791.php

[impala454]

you're doing it again. quit being such a whiny bitch

what am I whining about? you're the jackass that keeps taking this off topic.

that has to have the last word.

as i browse the nerdery, i see six out of the last 40 topics where i had the last post. 5 of the last 40 in NPR. please though, continue with the incorrect statements.

nobody cares. Trust me, you don't even want to know what's said about you in the moderators forum, people are sick of you trying to prove your internet IQ.

oh noes do someone i don't give a shit about say bad fings about me?!?

[zetec]

yeah, HD's throwing out some serious incentives right now on the discs too... I hear you can get the 360 drive with 5+1 movies (1 you don't get to choose the title, I forget what it was) all for $179, drive, movies and all.

I think Sony has a similar incentive going on, but ONLY for the PS3, not for the rest of their players, IIRC, and that still a lot more expensive.

Like I said, I think it's all going to come down to price.

[impala454]

hd-dvd for teh win, blu-ray = dead

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/format-wars/fir...7000-294791.php

heh yeah i saw that on AVS a sec ago... the dudes in the HD-DVD forum are all goin nuts over it... the BD forum guys are all cryin

[impala454]

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.pht...ray-group.phtml

Sony invites Toshiba and Microsoft to join Blu-ray camp

"Never thought the price was an issue... when it comes to investing in a state of the art entertainment system with HD-Ready television and surround sound system, having to spend a bit extra to get Blu-ray, we feel, isn't going to drive customers away. It's the bigger picture we are looking at."

...

"We believe consumers are smart enough to realise the benefits and pay the extra accordingly."

...

When questioned on the internet, and the potential for the format war to be eclipsed entirely by movie downloads, sounding like music execs from the turn of the last century, both Eklund and Marty dismissed the potential of the internet:

"People aren't interested in downloading videos at the moment. The internet is a good way of delivering music but not video," said Eklund. "Blu-ray has a good 8 to 10 years before the internet catches up."

...

And as for how consumers are supposed to get around the Dreamworks and Paramount shift to HD DVD? "Buy it on DVD," Marty suggested - before quickly adding that Blu-ray players have upscaling features so you can still get the most out of the picture quality.

lawlz these guys are delusional

edit: these are quotes from the "executive VP of advanced technology" at sony pictures

[Seeker]

A rumor out right now says the latest firmware update for the ps3 disables blu-ray playback.

[pebkac]

i prefer hd-dvd over blu-ray simply because i detest sony in every way

Sony does make good laptops. They're just too fucking expensive.

[impala454]

http://blog.homecinemachoice.com/page/home...ays_profile_1_1

Denon (one of the higher end home theater companies) has delayed its blu ray player that was supposed to be out in october. Supposedly it's a pain in the ass to develop.

[impala454]

i was reading some industry insider posts today that every DVD production line (manufacturing machine) purchased over the past two years (approx 200) also has the capability to produce HD DVDs. apparently this is compared to 8 blu ray production lines in existence. the costs involved to bring up enough lines to match are in the billions.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....82#post11474482
and
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....03#post11475003