Lingerie Store Raid Options

[Psykopath]

http://www.kamc28.tv/news/default.asp?mode...ews&id=2323

The crack-down on sexually oriented businesses continues, this time, targeting a local lingerie shop.
Police raided the Somethin’ Sexy lingerie store at 53rd and Slide and arrested the clerk. The law states, you can`t have more than six of the same sexual item for sale. Several explicit items were confiscated during the raid.

The owner, who asked to remain anonymous, says the raid is a waste of resources.

"I think it`s unfair, I think it`s old fashioned” he says. “I`m sure they`ll be several people who will agree that the raid was necessary and these items should not be sold in Lubbock. But I also think a lot of people think that this is wasted man hour by the police department."

No court date has been set for the store clerk. But if convicted, she would have to register as a sex offender.

The shop remains open and the owner says they are selling everything that`s legal.

Strip Clubs, Chippendale's, Lingerie Shops...

Seriously, Lubbock...you backwards-ass, hick fucking community of fundamentalist bible-thumpers.... Is there not any better way to spend those police resources?!?

FUCK

[Dogmeat]

that's fucking rediculous ...

[James]

I'm sure there's more to the story than what is being said. What law? A state law or a city ordinance?

[James]

That makes it even more confusing!

The lingerie store, Somethin’ Sexy was raided by police last week for violating Lubbock`s sexually oriented business ordinance.

Then a little while later...

Earlier this month, four officers raided the shop, confiscating several toys deemed to be illegal by the Texas penal code. The code states "a person who possesses six or more obscene devices is presumed to possess them with intent to promote the same." In other words, intent to sell.

I guess I still need to know what they're considering obscene. Just because other stores across the state keep these obscene merchandise in the open doesn't make it legal. Larger cities like Dallas have more problems to deal with than Lubbock, so they prioritize differently. Don't get pissed at the enforcers of the laws; get pissed at the creators of the laws.

[Seeker]

Those who enforce shitty laws are just as guilty as the law-makers.

[kcroxyoursox]

Everyone who is in Lubbock should go to Somethin Sexy and make a purchase to support that shop... then mail it anonymously to the police station! Maybe they have too much "tension" that needs to be "released"

[James]

Those who enforce shitty laws are just as guilty as the law-makers.

Not true at all. It's called good work ethics. It is not their place to question whether a law is shitty or not while on their job.

Enforcers consist of both the D.A. and the police. They're both part of the executive branch, the branch that acts out on what is decided by the legislative branch. It is the judicial branch's responsibility to decide if a law is shitty. When you have executors deciding, you start to have corruption, which I'm sure we both agree is not what we need.

[schwab]

why does this not surprise me.....

and the clerk will be registered as a sex offender? that is fucking bullshit

[cmac]

so a person who innocently sells a product in a store will be grouped into the same category as a child rapist.
that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[Psykopath]

I'm considering going to a City Council meeting over this...


I'm so sick and tired of the fucked up series of priorities in this city.

[JRockTTU]

I'm considering going to a City Council meeting over this...
I'm so sick and tired of the fucked up series of priorities in this city.

Now you're going to have to drive outside city limits to get your butt plugs.


But in all seriousness, this is bullshit. Not surprising in the least, but bullshit all the same. I'd encourage as many people as possible to go to a city council meeting and raise hell because our joke of a mayor and city council want to be the morals police of lubbock.

[Psykopath]

Now you're going to have to drive outside city limits to get your butt plugs.
But in all seriousness, this is bullshit. Not surprising in the least, but bullshit all the same. I'd encourage as many people as possible to go to a city council meeting and raise hell because our joke of a mayor and city council want to be the morals police of lubbock.

But I though you liked when we used butt plugs in the bedroom CUTIE PIE?!?

[JRockTTU]

But I though you liked when we used butt plugs in the bedroom CUTIE PIE?!?

I do, but I'm the straight one in this relationship, so you buy the butt plugs!

[schwab]

it wont make a difference, they will just sasy that the city council meeting is not about that and wont comment

[James]

Yeah. Yall are barking up the wrong tree. City council and mayor have no control over this law. If you want to complain, have a chit-chat with the state representatives.

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/...00.htm#43.23.00

There's the law. Pretty easy to read. So yeah, when you contact your state representative, at least you have the exact code to reference.

[James]

Oh yeah, and I'm not sure why or how they're registering them as a sex offender. Obscenity doesn't qualify as an offense that requires registering as a sex offender according to the Code of Criminal Procedure Chapter 62 - http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/...0.htm#62.001.00 - UNLESS there is evidence they sold these products to minors or the products involved minors, in which case, I think we would all agree these bastards need to rot in hell and shame on the media for failing to report that part.

[THECHICKEN]

Um... i doubt they are being charged with obscenity (and if they are the statute has been twisted it seems like)... considering the fact that "6 Identical items" in that statute refers to PRESUMING the person to be guilty of intent to distribute obscene material. If the material is obscene (and its a store that sells it) then you don't need the "6 item" thing.

(e) A person who promotes or wholesale promotes obscene
material or an obscene device or possesses the same with intent to
promote or wholesale promote it in the course of his business is
presumed to do so with knowledge of its content and character.
(f) A person who possesses six or more obscene devices or
identical or similar obscene articles is presumed to possess them
with intent to promote the same.

So yeah, im guessing its a zoning ordinance where in that zone you can't do the certain thing (over 6 items or what not) without being in violation of the zone and then maybe a presumtion of sex crime?

Seems like a wierd law honestly if it takes selling more than 6 to equal a crime....
If only i wasn't too lazy to use my law school resources to look it up haha. (writing a paper)

[James]

Um... i doubt they are being charged with obscenity (and if they are the statute has been twisted it seems like)... considering the fact that "6 Identical items" in that statute refers to PRESUMING the person to be guilty of intent to distribute obscene material. If the material is obscene (and its a store that sells it) then you don't need the "6 item" thing.
So yeah, im guessing its a zoning ordinance where in that zone you can't do the certain thing (over 6 items or what not) without being in violation of the zone and then maybe a presumtion of sex crime?

Seems like a wierd law honestly if it takes selling more than 6 to equal a crime....
If only i wasn't too lazy to use my law school resources to look it up haha. (writing a paper)

Nah, they're only presuming the person to be knowledgeable of the content and character of the material. Back to what the D.A. was talking about selling something as a sex toy vs selling something as a cake topping or whatever.

The more than six part is there to mean that any person owning more than six must have possessed so many because they intended to sell them. Not sure why their even mentioning this either since he was selling the stuff openly.

[THECHICKEN]

Nah, they're only presuming the person to be knowledgeable of the content and character of the material. Back to what the D.A. was talking about selling something as a sex toy vs selling something as a cake topping or whatever.

The more than six part is there to mean that any person owning more than six must have possessed so many because they intended to sell them. Not sure why their even mentioning this either since he was selling the stuff openly.

A person who possesses six or more obscene devices or
identical or similar obscene articles is presumed to possess them
with intent to promote the same.

No it means that with 6 you are presumed to have intent to sell (promote, whatever), thats all it means. And if you are a store actively selling them, then the 6 items doesn't matter. The 6 items says nothing to the obscenity. If its obscene... and you intend to sell it (a store) then they can get you. The 6 item thing isn't even a factor. thats why im confused (if it is indeed an obscenity violation)

[James]

That's what I just said?

[zetec]

funny story: When I was hit by a suburban my freshman year which totaled my car and landed me in the hospital, I was driving outside of city limits to some sex shop the interweb said was there (I don't think it really was) to buy one of my friends a vibrator for her birthday. (not a gag gift, lol, she really asked for one).

Anyways, the state trooper is getting the accident report from me at the hospital, I'm loaded up with morphine and start to tell him the story, not knowing anything about the laws on the subject. All of a sudden, as soon as I jokingly say the word vibrator, his face gets super duper serious and he starts looking at me like I was hauling 50 kilos of coke or something like that. He started questioning me all super pissedoff/serious/intimidatingish about the location of the store and how many i was buying and who it was for etc etc etc. I was kinda like, dude, never even made it to the store, as you can fucking see, chill out.

long story short, this analness has been going on for a while.

[THECHICKEN]

That's what I just said?

Im sorry, when i seen you put "Nah, it means......yada yada" i figured you were going against what i said the first time. So i just quoted and repeated lol. Glad im not the only one confused about that "6 item thing"

[JRockTTU]

funny story: When I was hit by a suburban my freshman year which totaled my car and landed me in the hospital, I was driving outside of city limits to some sex shop the interweb said was there (I don't think it really was) to buy one of my friends a vibrator for her birthday. (not a gag gift, lol, she really asked for one).

Anyways, the state trooper is getting the accident report from me at the hospital, I'm loaded up with morphine and start to tell him the story, not knowing anything about the laws on the subject. All of a sudden, as soon as I jokingly say the word vibrator, his face gets super duper serious and he starts looking at me like I was hauling 50 kilos of coke or something like that. He started questioning me all super pissedoff/serious/intimidatingish about the location of the store and how many i was buying and who it was for etc etc etc. I was kinda like, dude, never even made it to the store, as you can fucking see, chill out.

long story short, this analness has been going on for a while.

I'm assuming you're talking about the shop on west 19th street. It's there, just really small and really hard to notice.

[zetec]

nah, this was supposedly off of university WAAAAY outside of city limits. never found the place.

[Divergent Realit...]

same crap has happened to a shop in austin a few times. if someone gets not lazy they can search-fu it out.

[Billy]

It's only a matter of time before they start arresting homosexuals.

And then non-believers.

And then jews.

[kcroxyoursox]

Yeah. Yall are barking up the wrong tree. City council and mayor have no control over this law.

I'm not sure it's the law they're wanting to argue. It's more that with all the drugs, prostitution, crime and other BIG DEAL issues in Lubbock, this is their top priority.

[James]

I highly doubt that this was their top priority but more of a media's priority. Has no one heard of multi-tasking? Not like it took a lot of manpower to "raid" one store with one employee.

[Psykopath]

I highly doubt that this was their top priority but more of a media's priority. Has no one heard of multi-tasking? Not like it took a lot of manpower to "raid" one store with one employee.

According to the news, 4 patrol cars took part in the "raid."

But hey, I didn't see it on Fox News so it was probably a lie...Because you just KNOW this city doesn't waste man power/resources at all! I mean, they only used 8+ officers, a paddy wagon, and leg irons for the Chippendale's fiasco. That wasn't over the line at all either.

[chook]

I love the shitty english, six sexual item

[impala454]

yay lets again immediately blame Christians. it must be their fault. they're the only people on the planet who don't like having dildo shops down the street from them.

on a more serious note, it sure does seem the lubbock police have turned into a new vice squad and I totally agree it's a waste of resources. then again, I also think it was a waste of resources to have some dude driving around in a car issuing warnings for city ordinance regarding yard maintinence.

I would be interested to know if there were any warnings given to the owners about violating city ordinance (before the "raid" (lol "raid"... did they go in wearing body armor with mp5s? ("DROP THE 5 FOOT COCK BITCH")))

[JRockTTU]

According to the news, 4 patrol cars took part in the "raid."

But hey, I didn't see it on Fox News so it was probably a lie...Because you just KNOW this city doesn't waste man power/resources at all! I mean, they only used 8+ officers, a paddy wagon, and leg irons for the Chippendale's fiasco. That wasn't over the line at all either.

Why would Fox News cover a stupid bust of a sex toy shop in Lubbock, Texas? I'm not sure if you mean Fox News or the crappy Fox local affiliate "news" team. I understand that you're trying to take a jab at James in a sarcastic tone and implying that he's the voice of conservatism, but I just don't understand the reference to "it can't be true if Fox News didn't report it."

[Psykopath]

yay lets again immediately blame Christians. it must be their fault. they're the only people on the planet who don't like having dildo shops down the street from them.

on a more serious note, it sure does seem the lubbock police have turned into a new vice squad and I totally agree it's a waste of resources. then again, I also think it was a waste of resources to have some dude driving around in a car issuing warnings for city ordinance regarding yard maintenance.

I would be interested to know if there were any warnings given to the owners about violating city ordinance (before the "raid" (lol "raid"... did they go in wearing body armor with mp5s? ("DROP THE 5 FOOT COCK BITCH")))

Not blaming Christianity, just the "Christians" (or the ones beefing up obvious Christian Right morality) for enforcing their morals on everyone else. Same goes with the whole alcohol thing.

And yeah, the yard maintenance thing is a motherfucking joke. They once walked past my parent's house and issued them a $300+ citation for the chipped up sidewalk in front of their house (sidewalk that had been that way before we moved in the house). Now, isn't the sidewalk city property, technically? If it's not, then I wonder how they'd feel if my folks just tore it all up and planted bushes? heh

Why would Fox News cover a stupid bust of a sex toy shop in Lubbock, Texas? I'm not sure if you mean Fox News or the crappy Fox local affiliate "news" team. I understand that you're trying to take a jab at James in a sarcastic tone and implying that he's the voice of conservatism, but I just don't understand the reference to "it can't be true if Fox News didn't report it."

Just a lame sarcastic jab...nothing more.

This post has been edited by Psykopath: May 22 2007, 11:59 PM

[James]

According to the news, 4 patrol cars took part in the "raid."

But hey, I didn't see it on Fox News so it was probably a lie...Because you just KNOW this city doesn't waste man power/resources at all! I mean, they only used 8+ officers, a paddy wagon, and leg irons for the Chippendale's fiasco. That wasn't over the line at all either.

Four patrol cars That's four to eight officers. Not a lot considering they may not have known who or what was in the building at the time. And again, if they're going to try and put someone on the sex offender list, then there's more to this story than has been reported.

I don't know where you come off with the Fox News joke. I don't recall ever saying that. When I referred to the media, I was referring to the issue of them exaggerating the news to pique viewer interest. I'm sure drug arrests happen all the time, but what do people want to hear about more - the drug bust that happens at least once a week and is repetitive or the sex shop getting "raided" and removing a new kind of bad element from town (Hint: it's the latter; that's why it's called news instead of repetitives).

If I recall correctly, didn't the bar that Chippendale's was performing in at the time contain people? Lots of people? If so, then you should have no problem taking 8+ officers to the property in order to better guarantee the safety of the officers. The mob is very fickle and very dangerous. Paddy wagon, easier transportation, duh. Leg irons, probably excessive, but also probably mandatory by TCLEOS for larger arrests, again, for the officer's safety.

[impala454]

Not blaming Christianity, just the "Christians" (or the ones beefing up obvious Christian Right morality) for enforcing their morals on everyone else. Same goes with the whole alcohol thing.

well maybe that's not what you meant, but I dunno how else to read "Lubbock...you backwards-ass, hick fucking community of fundamentalist bible-thumpers"

and they weren't enforcing morals, they were enforcing city ordinance. apparently (if I read the article correctly) the city ordinance allows up to six similar sexually explicit items, and this store exceeded that number. so, you can say it's the people pushing their morals on others, but it seems fairly lax to me if the ordinance says "you can only have six purple three headed dildos on display at a time".

the police were perfectly justified in doing what they did. my only question would be is if they ever issued a warning. not that they would have to, but you'd think they would.

[JRockTTU]

Four patrol cars That's four to eight officers. Not a lot considering they may not have known who or what was in the building at the time. And again, if they're going to try and put someone on the sex offender list, then there's more to this story than has been reported.

I don't know where you come off with the Fox News joke. I don't recall ever saying that. When I referred to the media, I was referring to the issue of them exaggerating the news to pique viewer interest. I'm sure drug arrests happen all the time, but what do people want to hear about more - the drug bust that happens at least once a week and is repetitive or the sex shop getting "raided" and removing a new kind of bad element from town (Hint: it's the latter; that's why it's called news instead of repetitives).

If I recall correctly, didn't the bar that Chippendale's was performing in at the time contain people? Lots of people? If so, then you should have no problem taking 8+ officers to the property in order to better guarantee the safety of the officers. The mob is very fickle and very dangerous. Paddy wagon, easier transportation, duh. Leg irons, probably excessive, but also probably mandatory by TCLEOS for larger arrests, again, for the officer's safety.

I don't know how many patrol cars they had, but they "raided" it with 4 uniformed officers. The sex toys were in a hidden location that one would have to ask to see before they were shown the items. An undercover officer went in the night before the raid and asked to see the items. He purchased a dildo (or vibrator, don't remember) from the clerk working at the store. The next day they took 4 cops up there to bust the joint and confiscate all of the sex toys. So now not only are we using 4 cops to bust a store that discreetly sells items to be used in the privacy of one's home, we are also using the manpower of undercover officers!

I'm a conservative individual, but my fiance's car got a cinder block thrown at it a month ago and caused over $2000 in damage while it was parked in front of our house on a thursday night. I'm glad to see that the police are more concerned about people masturbating than they are finding people who are doing property damage (6 blocks from the Somethin' Sexy, 3 away from Jake's). I'm fed up with this bullshit that they enforce their laws to stifle the "moral corruption" in Lubbock, all of the moral corruption I see is in city hall.

Impala: It's not a city ordinance, it's a state law about the sex toys. The funny thing is that no other city seems to enforce the law because they have bigger fish to fry. The city is just selectively enforcing these sex laws instead of things that actually hurt people. There have been a few scattered cases of this being enforced in Texas, but not many. One of them involved an undercover cop busting one of those sex toy parties that women have (like tupperware parties but with fake dicks).

I can link my sources after work if you need more info on where I got my facts.

[Divergent Realit...]

all of the moral corruption I see is in city hall.

ding ding ding.

we have a winner.

[impala454]

oh I never said it was a good use of cops, just sayin they were within their jobs to do it.

and as far as other cities in the state having bigger fish to fry, yeah, houston, dfw, SA, austin, etc. but what terrible rampant crime is there in lubbock? honestly lubbock is a city where the cops have nothing better to do.

so your gf got her car vandalized... are you saying that four cops on one raid on one night would have prevented it? it's not like they're busting a store every damn night. it's kinda like the chippendales thing.. yeah it was dumb, but it was one night. and people go all nuts saying "omg there's never police around because they're out doin stuff like this!"

chippendales raid = dumb, yes, it was a mis-use of cops
dildo store raid = dumb, yes, it was a mis-use of cops
total cop time wasted = 5-6 hrs? out of the past how many years?

[cmac]

they had to spend time planning the raids.
so 20-40 hours.


i still don't get how this shop owner can be classified into the same category as a child rapist.
if s/he becomes a sex offender.

This post has been edited by cmac: May 23 2007, 12:33 PM

[Psykopath]

they had to spend time planning the raids.
so 20-40 hours.


i still don't get how this shop owner can be classified into the same category as a child rapist.
if s/he becomes a sex offender.

Remember, Texas takes its "sex" crimes quite seriously!

They bust homosexuals getting busy in the privacy of their own house so as to protect the morality status quo.



Yeah, I'm still not seeing how this person could be considered a sex offender. I mean, dildos deal with sex, but...I mean come on: It's not like the store clerk was randomly jamming them into the vaginas of customers or something.

For fuck's sake, these whacked out laws get on my nerves.

This post has been edited by Psykopath: May 23 2007, 12:46 PM

[Seeker]

Impala, you're forgetting all the wasted tax-payers dollars that paid for these ridiculous raids, and hundreds of thousands of dollars that will go towards lawyer's fees, DA fees, etc. in the prosecution of the poor clerk. Then all the wasted tax-payers dollars that will be needed to either jail the poor clerk or put him on probation.

[impala454]

hundreds of thousands of dollars? I don't think so.

the point was, it's not like the streets of lubbock have been running rampant with crime the past however many years because a handful of cops took part in a few hours worth of questionable raids.

[The Fanatic]

Why did the clerk get arrested but not the owner? That makes even less sense.

[zetec]

oh I never said it was a good use of cops, just sayin they were within their jobs to do it.

and as far as other cities in the state having bigger fish to fry, yeah, houston, dfw, SA, austin, etc. but what terrible rampant crime is there in lubbock? honestly lubbock is a city where the cops have nothing better to do.

so your gf got her car vandalized... are you saying that four cops on one raid on one night would have prevented it? it's not like they're busting a store every damn night. it's kinda like the chippendales thing.. yeah it was dumb, but it was one night. and people go all nuts saying "omg there's never police around because they're out doin stuff like this!"

chippendales raid = dumb, yes, it was a mis-use of cops
dildo store raid = dumb, yes, it was a mis-use of cops
total cop time wasted = 5-6 hrs? out of the past how many years?

it takes time to plan a raid (20-40 hours), rehearse a raid (assuming they're following SOP - 12 hours) do paperwork from each cop both before and after the raid (4 hours per cop- each cop has to write a report for each arrestee) not to mention they get paid for all of this, (city dollars) and the undercover officers in the first place (?? hours)

[James]

LOL

[JRockTTU]

Impala, you're forgetting all the wasted tax-payers dollars that paid for these ridiculous raids, and hundreds of thousands of dollars that will go towards lawyer's fees, DA fees, etc. in the prosecution of the poor clerk. Then all the wasted tax-payers dollars that will be needed to either jail the poor clerk or put him on probation.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was going to say in response.

hundreds of thousands of dollars? I don't think so.

the point was, it's not like the streets of lubbock have been running rampant with crime the past however many years because a handful of cops took part in a few hours worth of questionable raids.

I know that these 2 incidents don't take a lot of time, but the keyword here shouldn't be police time, it should be "resources." As in the police officers that are assigned to a dildo store raid instead of patrolling the streets, the guy that was shot over rent money in a domestic dispute at the same time the city had like 20 cops and at the Chippendale's show, the DA's resources, the lawyer fees and court fees associated, and whatever other processing fees that I do not see on the outside. Us taxpayers pay for all of this crap. These two separate incidents are good indicators of where the city's priorities are! It tells me that they must not really care about drugs, violence, and other harmful crimes if they're willing to set up these stings ahead of time and use more manpower than necessary to accomplish them.

Why did the clerk get arrested but not the owner? That makes even less sense.

Because they used an undercover cop the night before to go in and buy a dildo from the clerk. The clerk was arrested for selling the obscene toy to the cop and they confiscated everything else.

[zetec]

speaking of police resources, that's one thing that LPD apparently doesn't have much of, considering how badly they're wanting to hire (and train) new officers... This is not what one would call effective marketing.

[James]

I honestly doubt LPD's target recruitment pool will be impacted by this one way or the other. If anything, the average salary for West Texas and lack of excitement are the biggest deterrents.

[jwttu]

speaking of police resources, that's one thing that LPD apparently doesn't have much of, considering how badly they're wanting to hire (and train) new officers... This is not what one would call effective marketing.

ya arent "now hiring" signs for them on almost every corner

and then they do this?!?!

[JRockTTU]

Yeah, that was another point I was going to bring up: they have been recruiting new officers for quite some time now and complaining about being understaffed but they spend use the time of their current force for pointless tasks such as this.

There was another big problem recently, I think they were complaining about not having enough funds to supply new uniforms for their officers but they went out and bought a whole lot of new police cars. Don't remember exactly, but I think that was the situation.

They should just hire Vic Mackey and get it over with. He'll tear down the crime in this city.

[jwttu]

Yeah, that was another point I was going to bring up: they have been recruiting new officers for quite some time now and complaining about being understaffed but they spend use the time of their current force for pointless tasks such as this.

There was another big problem recently, I think they were complaining about not having enough funds to supply new uniforms for their officers but they went out and bought a whole lot of new police cars. Don't remember exactly, but I think that was the situation.

They should just hire Vic Mackey and get it over with. He'll tear down the crime in this city.

ya they arent good at finding solutions to their problems, which is an elementary school skill

[GOB]

the lpd was advertising a lot at the beginning of the fall semester, but stopped when they had a promising group for the second round of the hiring process. they started it up again early this year because a huge percentage of recruits didn't make it past the background-check part.

people aren't "badly" needed, lubbock just needs to realize that it's not a small town anymore. this place has horrible big city crime, so focusing on shit like closing down sex shops, busting traveling strippers, and allocating 350 cops for every tech sporting event is ridiculous.


i remember there being complaints about the amount of cars/trucks the city owns. i think it's something like there are more city vehicles than city employees.