Male activists want 'say' in unplanned pregnancy, No money for you bitch Options

[woody]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/08/fatherho...t.ap/index.html

The National Center for Men has prepared a lawsuit -- nicknamed Roe v. Wade for Men -- to be filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Michigan on behalf of a 25-year-old computer programmer ordered to pay child support for his ex-girlfriend's daughter.

The suit addresses the issue of male reproductive rights, contending that lack of such rights violates the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause.

The gist of the argument: If a pregnant woman can choose among abortion, adoption or raising a child, a man involved in an unintended pregnancy should have the choice of declining the financial responsibilities of fatherhood. The activists involved hope to spark discussion even if they lose.

bout fuckin time

[M1N10N]

equal risk, equal protection

??

[Seussninja]

sounds about right

should be interesting

[kcroxyoursox]

the thing is, most guys who are in that situation probably wont voluntarily pay... punishing a woman with certain moral standards by not only making her have a baby, but now not getting support from the other half of the creator of the financial burden in the first place

[Spectatrix]

Oooh, that IS interesting. I *like* that.

I hope that wouldn't drive more women to get abortions... but I think if they were planning to keep the kid and the father declined financial responsibility, they'd probably go with adoption instead (if they couldn't afford care on their own).

[Billy]

It is a whole helluva lot easier for the father of the child to walk away than it is for a mother who carried the child for 9 months and went through all the hormonal stuff that goes along with childbearing. Adoption? Yeah right. Hold your child in your arms for the first time and then let's see you give it up. Some could. And some do. But for the majority of people, there is a really strong bond between parent and child. And as abortion is concerned, abortion is not an issue men should have any say on. We will never have to go through that, and thus we'll never really know what goes on afterwards. I have met people who have had abortions that are really emotionally messed up afterwards. So saying "hey, I got you pregnant, get an abortion or I'm leaving" isn't very fair.

To make a long story short, letting men take equal risk (unprotected or not protected enough sex) and not have to bare any of the burden is incredibly unfair.

[woody]

i'm out of the loop a bit, seeing how i never knocked up a girl...

if a guy signs his rights, does that leave him free from financial responsibilities?

This post has been edited by woody: Mar 9 2006, 11:54 AM

[nickluto]

In my opinion, if I wear a love glove, that's me saying "hey, i dont wanna have a kid, im taking all possible preventative measures on my end to make sure that doesnt happen"

if that happens and a girl gets knocked up somehow and wants to have a kid, i shouldn't have to be subjected to her will. if by some act of god we talk about it and decide to stay together and we both want the kid, sure I'll pay child support... it's my responsibility.

but its ridiculous to think that I'd have to pay in the event that I wont get to see the kid at all and she leaves never to speak to me again.

[JRockTTU]

I'm totally split on this issue. Billy has a VERY good argument, but so does Nick. What if the guy tries to protect from pregnancy, or the girl claims to be on birth control when she is not. What about the women who get knocked up on purpose so that they can live off of child support and government money?

[chook]

I'd say don't sleep with someone unless you are willing to deal with the consequences. My morals, probably because of my upbringing keep me from sleeping with a girl unless I love her and she is willing to have the child. Believe me that I do not want to have a kid now.

[pebkac]

I'm totally split on this issue. Billy has a VERY good argument, but so does Nick. What if the guy tries to protect from pregnancy, or the girl claims to be on birth control when she is not. What about the women who get knocked up on purpose so that they can live off of child support and government money?

Yes, but even birth control is 95% effective. No matter what happens, there's still that 5% chance. Now how would you prove that you weren't one of that unlucky few?

Personally, I find the proposition appalling. You helped make the baby, so it's your responsibility to help raise it.

Now as far as the government money and child support issue, it may be bad that some people are abusing the system to get out of work, but on the other hand, think of it this way: should a single mother with no one else to support her or her kid be forced to work 40 hours a week at a job instead of raising her kid?

[Throwdown]

awesome, i've been lobbying for this (and by lobbying i mean bitching) for years.

if a woman can choose what she does with the child, a man should be able to choose whether or not to support it if they can't come to an agreement. wanna talk about personal responsibility? if a woman has the right to choose what she wants to do with her child, she should take responsibility to support it.

now, if both parents agree to have the child and the guy decides afterwards he doesn't want to support it, he should be thrown in jail

[hodge]

In my opinion, if I wear a love glove, that's me saying "hey, i dont wanna have a kid, im taking all possible preventative measures on my end to make sure that doesnt happen"

if that happens and a girl gets knocked up somehow and wants to have a kid, i shouldn't have to be subjected to her will. if by some act of god we talk about it and decide to stay together and we both want the kid, sure I'll pay child support... it's my responsibility.

but its ridiculous to think that I'd have to pay in the event that I wont get to see the kid at all and she leaves never to speak to me again.

qft

[Spectatrix]

If there was any kind of deception involved (woman claimed to be sterile or on BC when she wasn't, etc.) then I definitely think that the father should be able to opt-out of financial responsibility. Otherwise, it gets a bit more complicated.

if a guy signs his rights, does that leave him free from financial responsibilities?

I looked into this a bit and it seems as though the non-custodial parent still has to pay child support if the custodial parent didn't consent to the other signing away rights. If they both consent to it, then there's no child support. That may vary from state to state, though...

[Dogmeat]

Any guy who wants to make a stupid bitch he stuck his cock in have a kid she doesn't want is just asking to make his life a living fucking hell. Because we all know damned good and well the stupid cunt-bitch is gonna lie her ass off in court about how he beats her so she gets custody of the kid she wanted dead so he'll be financially strapped to her for 18 years as payback for not letting her murder her own baby.

[Spectatrix]

Dogmeat, what the hell does that have to do with anything? This isn't about banning women from having abortions...

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Mar 9 2006, 01:57 PM

[Dogmeat]

Dammit dammit dammit! There I go again! I don't even bother to read the initial post and make a stupid comment!

*DOH*

[Throwdown]

Any guy who wants to make a stupid bitch he stuck his cock in have a kid she doesn't want is just asking to make his life a living fucking hell. Because we all know damned good and well the stupid cunt-bitch is gonna lie her ass off in court about how he beats her so she gets custody of the kid she wanted dead so he'll be financially strapped to her for 18 years as payback for not letting her murder her own baby.

please, don't procreate. we're begging you.

[Spectatrix]

please, don't procreate. we're begging you.

We should put together a Techsans fund to get him a vasectomy. Or just stick him in a room with Rocky and a broken beer bottle.

[Throwdown]

We should put together a Techsans fund to get him a vasectomy. Or just stick him in a room with Rocky and a broken beer bottle.

setting up the paypal account as we speak

[impala454]

hope it passes

still sad though... kids nowadays are gettin the shaft when it comes to parents

[Junsui]

It is a whole helluva lot easier for the father of the child to walk away than it is for a mother who carried the child for 9 months and went through all the hormonal stuff that goes along with childbearing. Adoption? Yeah right. Hold your child in your arms for the first time and then let's see you give it up. Some could. And some do. But for the majority of people, there is a really strong bond between parent and child. And as abortion is concerned, abortion is not an issue men should have any say on. We will never have to go through that, and thus we'll never really know what goes on afterwards. I have met people who have had abortions that are really emotionally messed up afterwards. So saying "hey, I got you pregnant, get an abortion or I'm leaving" isn't very fair.

To make a long story short, letting men take equal risk (unprotected or not protected enough sex) and not have to bare any of the burden is incredibly unfair.

Thank you Billy. I agree. If this passes, what consequence will a man have to face for making the same mistake the woman did? In the end, it's the child that gets screwed over.

[Junsui]

In my opinion, if I wear a love glove, that's me saying "hey, i dont wanna have a kid, im taking all possible preventative measures on my end to make sure that doesnt happen"

The only way to guarantee you won't have a kid is to not have sex or get a vasectomy.

[hodge]

The only way to guarantee you won't have a kid is to not have sex or get a vasectomy.

vasectemy isnt always an option. you could say if a woman didnt want to have a kid she could get her tubes tied and all abortions should be illegal by following your same thought.

[¿¿WhatYouS...]

I'M THE JUGGERNAUT BITCHHHHHHHHHH!!!

MY SUIT IS SO TIGHT!!

[Junsui]

vasectemy isnt always an option. you could say if a woman didnt want to have a kid she could get her tubes tied and all abortions should be illegal by following your same thought.

True and maybe they should. I don't think a lot of people in this world should be reproducing. Also a vasectomy is an easier operation than a hysterectomy.

[¿¿WhatYouS...]

True and maybe they should. I don't think a lot of people in this world should be reproducing. Also a vasectomy is an easier operation than a hysterectomy.

It is easier and can be reversed.

Its the king of condoms too.

[rabble]

Vacetomies arent 100% either, there are people who have had them and still gotten their girls pregnant.
I have to agree with the fact that If you have sex with someone, you should be ready for anything that might pop out 9 months later, But I also agree with the fact that if you take as many preventative measures as possible and you still get her pregnant you should be able to argue that you shouldn't have to pay.

I suppose the fact of the case should be giving the guy a right to deny child support based on the circumstances of each case, not just saying that if a guy says "Im not paying" then they dont have to.

Things like condom use + Birth Control and talking with the girl about what they will do in case of a pregnancy should be standard procedure for this stuff. If she says that she will get an abortion if she gets pregant and then backs out of that if it happens, the guy should not be financially responsible because the two people came to an agreement. However, if you throw caution to the wind and just do everything on a whim you should face the full force of a baby.

[pebkac]

Vacetomies arent 100% either, there are people who have had them and still gotten their girls pregnant.
I have to agree with the fact that If you have sex with someone, you should be ready for anything that might pop out 9 months later, But I also agree with the fact that if you take as many preventative measures as possible and you still get her pregnant you should be able to argue that you shouldn't have to pay.

...

So you wore a jimmy hat that didn't work. This isn't your fault. So then it must be hers?

[rabble]

...

So you wore a jimmy hat that didn't work. This isn't your fault. So then it must be hers?

did you even read the bottom part?
You still need to talk about the "What if" situation with your partner.
And no, its not her fault if the condom breaks, but its not His either. That leaves them on equal ground for what happens next. If he tells her to get an abortion and she refuses, then that child is on her, not him.

However nowhere did I say that all guys should be exempt from paying child support, I said it should be taken on a case by case basis so that the people who took all precausions can be protected from something they worked to prevent and the people who throw their penis around are stuck with an unwanted child.

If you know beforehand that she wont get an abortion then you shouldnt put it in her, if she says "Ill get an abortion if it happens" and then she comes back and says she wont, then its not his fault.

[nickluto]

did you even read the bottom part?
You still need to talk about the "What if" situation with your partner.
And no, its not her fault if the condom breaks, but its not His either. That leaves them on equal ground for what happens next. If he tells her to get an abortion and she refuses, then that child is on her, not him.

However nowhere did I say that all guys should be exempt from paying child support, I said it should be taken on a case by case basis so that the people who took all precausions can be protected from something they worked to prevent and the people who throw their penis around are stuck with an unwanted child.

If you know beforehand that she wont get an abortion then you shouldnt put it in her, if she says "Ill get an abortion if it happens" and then she comes back and says she wont, then its not his fault.

ATTN: Rabble. This is your new avatar



You're welcome.

[Seussninja]

MINORITEAM

[nickluto]

MINORITEAM

week from sunday!

[woody]

The only way to guarantee you won't have a kid is to not have sex or get a vasectomy.

The Virgin Mary

THE VIRGIN MARY!!

[FORSAKENR320]

The Virgin Mary

THE VIRGIN MARY!!

mary was only a virgin if you don't count anal

[Testm0nkey]

thats an interesting thing to bring up. how can i protect myself from divine conception

[GOB]

thats an interesting thing to bring up. how can i protect myself from divine conception

have a bun in the oven at all times

[FORSAKENR320]

thats an interesting thing to bring up. how can i protect myself from divine conception

[GOB]

hey weren't you told to change your avatar like months ago because it was incredibly inappropriate, especially in public? it's deja vu all over again

[JRockTTU]

hey weren't you told to change your avatar like months ago because it was incredibly inappropriate, especially in public? it's deja vu all over again

He's been told like 20 times since he's been here, with the most recent being like 2 weeks ago. For some reason it's priority number one to delete TTULow's threads without sources, but nobody does anything about a member having highly NSFW avatars.

[Throwdown]

brandon should be banned for a week. maybe that will get the point across, because it seems nothing else will

and jason, you should be banned for life and thrown in jail. uncle jesse just gave me an epileptic seizure

[FORSAKENR320]

brandon should be banned for a week. maybe that will get the point across, because it seems nothing else will

and jason, you should be banned for life and thrown in jail. uncle jesse just gave me an epileptic seizure

and i think you should be banned from sucking my dick

[DaveFireDancer19]

Thank you Billy. I agree. If this passes, what consequence will a man have to face for making the same mistake the woman did? In the end, it's the child that gets screwed over.

I agree with billy also....

here comes a whole shitload of "he said, she said"

how exactly are you supposed to prove that "we had a talk about if we got pregnant and....." in court when it comes to child support? ESPECIALLY if its just a one-night drunken thing ya know?

Sex is gonna start to require a contract

[Epic]

okay, there's a bigger issue behind this activism.

The men of the case don't really want to win. What they want is for the abortion issue to be considered for men. One of their core values is trying to establish a role in the issue of unplanned pregnancy. The way it stands the policy is inconsistent. If a two people copulate, the unplanned pregnancy issue gives the woman all the rights. The rights these men really want (there's a small group on campus here) is the right to have the child, not to force the woman to abort or abandon responsibility.

If a woman gets pregnant and chooses to have an abortion against the man's desire, that's ok according to the current system. If a woman gets pregnant and chooses to have the child, against the man's wishes, that's also ok.

What's not ok in the system is a man who wants the child but the woman wishes to abort. So they man is removed from having any rights in the situation except for financial responsibility. He is never involved in the decision and has no legal foot to stand on. In this current trend of abortion as birth control, a lot of men (myself included) are wanting to stand up for the right to be a part of the pregnancy issue. And while no man I know would ever want to legally force a woman to have an abortion, I do believe men should gain some rights in this area.

[DaveFireDancer19]

yeah i agree with the aspect that blue talked about...but you know irresponsible douche bags are gonna use it to get out of paying for a child...just because some people are asshats

[FORSAKENR320]

yeah i agree with the aspect that blue talked about...but you know irresponsible douche bags are gonna use it to get out of paying for a child...just because some people are asshats

the current trend is also for woman to keep the child so they can get a paycheck


i have several female friends that are single mothers, and forced the man into child support, and those kids don't see a dime of any of that money


hell, one of them even told me the only reason she didn't abort the kid was to get back at the guy for dumping her for another woman before she even knew she was pregnant

[Rocky]

yeah i agree with the aspect that blue talked about...but you know irresponsible douche bags are gonna use it to get out of paying for a child...just because some people are asshats

That's why you have to build a method to deterr this. Perhaps a bit of a legal process, paperwork, and costs.

[DaveFireDancer19]

That's why you have to build a method to deterr this.  Perhaps a bit of a legal process, paperwork, and costs.

yeah like i said..sex requires a contract.

[basschick]

I'm totally split on this issue. Billy has a VERY good argument, but so does Nick. What if the guy tries to protect from pregnancy, or the girl claims to be on birth control when she is not. What about the women who get knocked up on purpose so that they can live off of child support and government money?

yipes you and i are thinking the same things!

i like billy's argument, being a girl and all
but I see the other side too, it's difficult
if people could put aside anger long enough to think about the welfare of the child...That should be the main thought in all this. Not the guy or the girl, but what's good for the kid. I think that's why some people can give up their children (other than the crazy ones with problems), because they know in the end, that child will have a better life. So, the question should be, what's best for the product of all this? Can mom survive with out the money? What will happen if she doesn't have the money?

[Spectatrix]

i have several female friends that are single mothers, and forced the man into child support, and those kids don't see a dime of any of that money

That was apparently nearly the case with me (or so I found out just a few months ago). I think my dad's actual child support payments went towards care for me (or most of it did), but my dad would also send extra money for new clothes or whatnot and my mom would apparently use it on god-knows-what and just give me hand-me-downs.

[FORSAKENR320]

That was apparently nearly the case with me (or so I found out just a few months ago). I think my dad's actual child support payments went towards care for me (or most of it did), but my dad would also send extra money for new clothes or whatnot and my mom would apparently use it on god-knows-what and just give me hand-me-downs.

2 of those friends of mine use that money to support their meth habits

[Mommy]

if my real dad had a say in my mom's pregnancy, i wouldnt be here right now. i think thats why i dont support abortion. i think before we initiate population control by killing fetuses (wtf is the plural of fetus), we should enact population control by ridding the planet of scumbags like my real dad who accused my mom of becoming pregnant because she whored around on him, then leaving her when she was 4 months pregnant, refused to pay a dime of child support, followed by months of court battles because he wouldnt sign and return the divorce papers. It all ended though when he didnt show up to my custody hearing and they gave full custody to my mom. well, until his parents stepped in and wanted partial custody which they had no right to so that went to court too.

on the other hand, women can be just as trashy so i think that males and females should both have a say in the outcome.

[FORSAKENR320]

i believe that we should just crater several 3rd world countries. that should be good population control

[Mommy]

mexico and a bunch of muslim countries should be the first to go.

[Jim]

And then stick the stupid people, the scumbags, the right wing nut jobs, the left wing nut jobs, the nut jobs in general, and anyone else who falls into those categories into those craters and then make even larger craters.

And then, I shall take over America and make it a better place. EVERYONE shall get free unicorns and puppies. EVERYONE!!!

[Spectatrix]

We should start a "Condoms for Catholics" campaign.

[FORSAKENR320]

We should start a "Condoms for Catholics" campaign.

i vote for nuklear sterolization of mexico

[Jim]

i vote for nuklear stereolization of mexico

I like stereolization better.

[nickluto]

The only way to guarantee you won't have a kid is to not have sex or get a vasectomy.

And the only way to guarantee you won't get in a car accident is to never drive...

[Testm0nkey]

if it boils down to lawsuits and petty battles neither parent is mature enough to be a proper parent. thusly the child is better off not being born = population control
and how about adopting instead of milking yourself on human fertilizers and popping out 8 babies
and whats with exporting births? adopt american babies. there are children in this country that really need homes. dumb celebrities

[rabble]

If I had to pay child support I would want an agreement that all the money I send her is for the child only. This would include complete monthy expense reports as well as an annual report and inspection of the child's residence and the woman's tax filings plus entire year's income and expenses by a 3rd party and the CPS.
Long story short, I wouldn't want a dime of that money to buy her anything. 100% should go to the child, she can die in a ditch for all I would care, just as long as the kid had his/her necessities.

If my inputs dont equal the outputs on the child, then I would file that he/she be removed from her custody and put in mine because they are not recieving the fair treatment from the mother that they deserve and they would be treated better under my supervision.

[Testm0nkey]

id say thats pretty fair. child support for child support and alimony be set up for the womans existance. i mean the mom could be a stone cold bitch but i wouldnt want the mother of my child, the woman seen in public with my child, some toothless whore - unless she started out that way giggity

[rabble]

id say thats pretty fair. child support for child support and alimony be set up for the womans existance. i mean the mom could be a stone cold bitch but i wouldnt want the mother of my child, the woman seen in public with my child, some toothless whore - unless she started out that way giggity

fuck the bitch, if she sees the kid as a paycheck then she shouldn't get a dime of the money.

[FORSAKENR320]

fuck the bitch, if she sees the kid as a paycheck then she shouldn't get a dime of the money.

agreed


and another point. if the father has custody of the child, the mother should be paying child support too. you don't see that shit happening either

[Seussninja]

agreed


and another point. if the father has custody of the child, the mother should be paying child support too. you don't see that shit happening either

quotin dis

[Junsui]

agreed


and another point. if the father has custody of the child, the mother should be paying child support too. you don't see that shit happening either

If the father has custody, the mother has to pay child support. It doesn't happen often because usually the court will give custody to the mother.

[rabble]

If the father has custody, the mother has to pay child support. It doesn't happen often because usually the court will give custody to the mother.

yes, I would make her pay child support. And I would support the child with it.

[Junsui]

Not every single mother who receives child support is out spending it on themselves.

[Testm0nkey]

yes they do. clothes, makeup and sweets theyre women. you cant fully blame them though because of their ignorance

[Spectatrix]

Rabble, you seem to have a pretty overblown view of how much input the father (or either parent, really) gets in child support agreements. Few judges are likely to consent to the kind of agreement you would want, unless there is some prior evidence that the mother would hoard child support money or otherwise mistreat the child.

[Junsui]

yes they do. clothes, makeup and sweets theyre women. you cant fully blame them though because of their ignorance

You were in my dream last night. Kind of weird.

[rabble]

Rabble, you seem to have a pretty overblown view of how much input the father (or either parent, really) gets in child support agreements. Few judges are likely to consent to the kind of agreement you would want, unless there is some prior evidence that the mother would hoard child support money or otherwise mistreat the child.

Well then thats exactly what this court case should address.
It would be my kid as well. If I'm willing to pay child support and I'm not a deadbeat I should have control over where my money goes.

[Testm0nkey]

You were in my dream last night. Kind of weird.

parts of you were in my dream last night too. then i found some other parts.

[FORSAKENR320]

Well then thats exactly what this court case should address.
It would be my kid as well. If I'm willing to pay child support and I'm not a deadbeat I should have control over where my money goes.

there IS a way that is handled too. it's more complicated, but a father CAN buy all the things for his child, deliver them, and file the receipt. i believe it has to have the mothers signature saying that she received them though, and i know alot of scandalous bitches who would avoid signing it out of spite.

then you got the guy with a bunch of stuff, no way to deliver it no signature, and her filing a complaint that he's not paying child support because it's not in cash

[Testm0nkey]

or you could just kidnap your child and move to a country that doesnt acknowledge america's legal turf

[Junsui]

there IS a way that is handled too. it's more complicated, but a father CAN buy all the things for his child, deliver them, and file the receipt. i believe it has to have the mothers signature saying that she received them though, and i know alot of scandalous bitches who would avoid signing it out of spite.

then you got the guy with a bunch of stuff, no way to deliver it no signature, and her filing a complaint that he's not paying child support because it's not in cash

You seem to be friends with (or just know a lot of) some of the worst people.

[FORSAKENR320]

You seem to be friends with (or just know a lot of) some of the worst people.

i come from a bit rougher group of people

[Testm0nkey]

people dont even know how our homies roll, man

[M1N10N]

there IS a way that is handled too.    it's more complicated, but a father CAN buy all the things for his child, deliver them, and file the receipt.  i believe it has to have the mothers signature saying that she received them though, and i know alot of scandalous bitches who would avoid signing it out of spite.

then you got the guy with a bunch of stuff, no way to deliver it no signature, and her filing a complaint that he's not paying child support because it's not in cash

Escrow account

Deliver the items to a DA, and have the person sign off

Deliver the check to a DA, and have the person sign off

Rabble, your request would cost the state more money than what you are paying for the child.

If the mother refuses visitation to the father, call the DA. The DA can halt payments and file official complaints.

and some advice, make the child exchange take place in a neutral, safe environment ... like a police department or courthouse

[M1N10N]

That sort of controlled costs arrangement that is being mentioned here does not consider all the costs associated with raising a child. There are shared costs with the child and the parent such as transportation, housing, food etc. Things that are shared between the two so sorry, it's not going to be all or nothing.

But honestly, if you don't want to run the risk of a child. No matter how many precautions you take you ALWAYS have the chance of creating a child unless you just are abstaining. Passage of this bill would be detrimental to children's rights, rights of women and set back women's rights to a time most just shouldn't even consider.

Something like this won't happen. Stop dreaming guys.

[GOB]

mar 13, 2006

[Mommy]

mar 13, 2006

dat was my birfday, dawg

[fingercuffs]

Happy past birthday!

[FORSAKENR320]

But honestly, if you don't want to run the risk of a child. No matter how many precautions you take you ALWAYS have the chance of creating a child unless you just are abstaining.

even that isn't 100% effective





remember jesus?

[GOB]

remember jesus?

who?

[woody]

jesus!!!

that vato from segundo who's mom got knocked up from lil pupet from the locos

[woody]

even that isn't 100% effective





remember jesus?

wasn't the same said about alexander the great

and mithra

[FORSAKENR320]

wasn't the same said about alexander the great

and mithra

hmm. not as familiar with non-american history

haven't been able to read on that, but it sounds interesting. you wouldn't happen to know where i might find a reference for that, would you?

[M1N10N]

That sort of controlled costs arrangement that is being mentioned here does not consider all the costs associated with raising a child. There are shared costs with the child and the parent such as transportation, housing, food etc. Things that are shared between the two so sorry, it's not going to be all or nothing.

But honestly, if you don't want to run the risk of a child. No matter how many precautions you take you ALWAYS have the chance of creating a child unless you just are abstaining. Passage of this bill would be detrimental to children's rights, rights of women and set back women's rights to a time most just shouldn't even consider.

Something like this won't happen. Stop dreaming guys.

Log into your own damn account

[M1N10N]

even that isn't 100% effective





remember jesus?

is he like a 4 sided triangle?

[zetec]

these laws need to be made.

Not long ago, some dude who donated sperm anonymously was tracked down and forced to pay child support to some bitch on a rag that just wanted the cash. Shit like that cannot be legal.

Not to mention the chicks that go grab the condom outta the trash and dump it back in them, or the chicks that poke holes in condoms. The more cash you have, the more susceptable you are to this. Sounds far fetched, but it happens all the time.

[chook]

these laws need to be made.

Not long ago, some dude who donated sperm anonymously was tracked down and forced to pay child support to some bitch on a rag that just wanted the cash. Shit like that cannot be legal.

Not to mention the chicks that go grab the condom outta the trash and dump it back in them, or the chicks that poke holes in condoms. The more cash you have, the more susceptable you are to this. Sounds far fetched, but it happens all the time.

flush em down the toilet next time

[Spectatrix]

Not long ago, some dude who donated sperm anonymously was tracked down and forced to pay child support to some bitch on a rag that just wanted the cash. Shit like that cannot be legal.

Do you happen to have a reference for that? I looked on Google News and couldn't find anything on it.

[Mommy]

I cant see that happening unless the sperm donation was under the table and the legal papers were not fully legit.

[woody]

hmm. not as familiar with non-american history

haven't been able to read on that, but it sounds interesting. you wouldn't happen to know where i might find a reference for that, would you?

actually i retract alexander the great

his mom was fucking phillip, but zeus was the father

mithra on the other hand...

well that's almost like christianity before jesus (alot of similar stories)

in fact, constantine (the roman emperor who legalized christianity) believed in mithra

[zetec]

Do you happen to have a reference for that? I looked on Google News and couldn't find anything on it.

tom leykis was talking about it last week, he had the actual source but i can't recall it, recent news story, i'll look it up. the problem is, even though it's supposed to be anonymous, promise of no child support and all that, it's currently not legal to sign away the right to child support no matter what kind of contract you have. therefore, any bitch that stuck a turkey baster up her snatch can still get child support, even if it means getting a subpoena for the ID of her vial of jizz.

[zetec]

I cant see that happening unless the sperm donation was under the table and the legal papers were not fully legit.

it doesn't matter, even if it's legit a judge can order a subpoena to reveal the identity of the donor for child support, contracts in the united states cannot waive the right to child support, any contract that does so is void under law. i'mma go look for the source now. i think it was in ohio or something.

[GhostofTHECHICKE...]

tom leykis was talking about it last week, he had the actual source but i can't recall it, recent news story, i'll look it up. the problem is, even though it's supposed to be anonymous, promise of no child support and all that, it's currently not legal to sign away the right to child support no matter what kind of contract you have. therefore, any bitch that stuck a turkey baster up her snatch can still get child support, even if it means getting a subpoena for the ID of her vial of jizz.

you should die a horrible death just for listening to tom leykis..

[zetec]

first result on google for "child support sperm donor":

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04206/351160.stm

State Superior Court rules sperm donor must pay support

Saturday, July 24, 2004
By Mark Scolforo, The Associated Press

HARRISBURG -- In a case that bioethicists say could have wide implications, the state Superior Court invalidated a verbal agreement between a woman and her sperm donor and ordered him to pay child support for twin boys born nearly 10 years ago.

A three-judge panel said the deal between Joel L. McKiernan and Ivonne V. Ferguson that he would not be obligated for any child support was "on its face" a valid contract, but it was unenforceable due to "legal, equitable and moral principles." Previous state appellate rulings had determined that parents may not bargain away a child's right to support.

"We agree with the trial court, 'although we find [Ferguson's] actions despicable and give [McKiernan] a sympathetic hue, it is the interest of the children we hold most dear,'" wrote Senior Judge Patrick R. Tamalia in a ruling issued Thursday.

The decision should give pause to sperm and egg donors who expect anonymity, said Arthur Caplan, a professor and medical ethicist at the University of Pennsylvania.

"Anybody who is a sperm donor ought to understand that their identity could be made known to any child that's produced and they could be seen by the courts as the best place to go to make sure the child has adequate financial support," Caplan said yesterday.

Ferguson and McKiernan met at work and had a two-year affair that had "waned" by late 1993, when Ferguson persuaded him to act as a sperm donor with no responsibility for any child born as a result, according to the trial judge's written opinion.

Ferguson, who separated from her husband in 1992, maintains that McKiernan was a willing partner in the in-vitro fertilization.

The twins were born prematurely in August 1994. Ferguson filed for support nearly five years later.

McKiernan has been paying up to $1,520 a month in support since losing the Dauphin County case. Since the twins were born, he has married, had two children and moved to the Pittsburgh area.

"Obviously I'm not happy with what occurred, but I don't want to comment any further," he said. His lawyer, John W. Purcell Jr., said he may appeal to the state Supreme Court.

"The cautionary tale is you can't trust anybody any more," Purcell said.

[zetec]

you should die a horrible death just for listening to tom leykis..

you hate him until you realize he's right.

it happens.