Vegan couple sentenced to life over baby's death Options

[moebary]

Malnourished baby was fed soy milk and apple juice, weighed 3 1/2 pounds

[Testm0nkey]

old!


horrible stupid stupid people
glad the court system went the obvious route and straight to the slammer
dumb dirty hippies
i wish they had pictures of them somewhere. how they dont take responsilibity for the boys death is horrible. and im sorry but you can tell when something is starving to death. infants put on enourmous amounts of weight quickly, it most likely dropping weight to 3lbs = disgusting. thats premature baby weight for a baby i cant remember how many months old. that and the nonstop crying

[griseyeux]

just goes to prove my theory that veganism is a form of neglect.

[Spectatrix]

Veganism is not inherently a form of neglect -- these people were just retards.

[Aaron]

Are they probably two of the dumbest people on the planet? Absolutely.

Did they maliciously withhold food from their kid? I don't think so.

I don't know, maybe it's just me but I don't think anyone should get life in prison for being stupid. They should get jail time, absolutely, but somehow I think the knowledge that your stupidity was directly responsible for your child's death seems like it's almost punishment enough.

[Seussninja]

I'd blame "retarded parents" over veganism.

[pysex]

a vegan diet not giving proper nutrition?!?!?!

NO WAI

[James]

Are they probably two of the dumbest people on the planet? Absolutely.

Did they maliciously withhold food from their kid? I don't think so.

I don't know, maybe it's just me but I don't think anyone should get life in prison for being stupid. They should get jail time, absolutely, but somehow I think the knowledge that your stupidity was directly responsible for your child's death seems like it's almost punishment enough.

Can you imagine the headaches if not only did prosecutors have to handle "Innocent until proven guilty," but also "Ignorant until proven smart?" One could even argue that anyone committing any crime is stupid.

[impala454]

a vegan diet not giving proper nutrition?!?!?!

NO WAI

lawlz

[FORSAKENR320]

NSFW

This post has been edited by jonathan83: May 10 2007, 08:37 AM

[Spectatrix]

Eh, I'm not vegan, but vegan diets certainly can provide adequate nutrition. Again, these folks were just retards. I mean, what kind of idiot parent can't tell that something is wrong when their 6-week-old baby is skin and bones?!?

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: May 10 2007, 09:02 AM

[impala454]

Eh, I'm not vegan, but vegan diets certainly can provide adequate nutrition.

apparently not for a baby

[prefix]

Eh, I'm not vegan, but vegan diets certainly can provide adequate nutrition.

No they can't that's why vegans have to take all those vitamin supplements and are still all skinny and anarexic looking.

[Aaron]

Can you imagine the headaches if not only did prosecutors have to handle "Innocent until proven guilty," but also "Ignorant until proven smart?" One could even argue that anyone committing any crime is stupid.

I never said that it should be incorporated into the justice system, I was just saying I didn't think they deserved life in prison for it. Though, it seems like their life sentences were automatic, so it couldn't have been helped.

[impala454]

I never said that it should be incorporated into the justice system, I was just saying I didn't think they deserved life in prison for it. Though, it seems like their life sentences were automatic, so it couldn't have been helped.

would it have changed your mind if it was a 5 year old kid they'd let starve to death? I have heard that malnutrition is extremely painful.

[Aaron]

Any five year old kid would be able to vocalize any discomfort or ill feelings, so, yes, my feelings would be different in that case.

[impala454]

well, i dont think that really had much to do with it in this case. whatever they said, it sounds to me more like a strict belief in their ideals backfired on them, not simple ignorance.

[Aaron]

I didn't realize "ignorance" and "strict belief" were mutually exclusive.

[impala454]

they matter in sentencing. if they knew they were starving the baby, but refused to do anything about it because of beliefs, they deserved their sentence. if they were ignorant of the baby's condition I suppose 20-30 years might have been more fitting.

and to me, it's just pathetic. the bitch wouldn't even breast feed him? how much more "natural" can you get than that?

[James]

I never said that it should be incorporated into the justice system, I was just saying I didn't think they deserved life in prison for it. Though, it seems like their life sentences were automatic, so it couldn't have been helped.

What do you think would happen if they were given a reduced sentence for a crime such as this? It would set precedent and be incorporated into the justice system, allowing any defense attorney to use it for their client.

Additionally, penalty is written into the law books along with the actual crime, and since it's not really a judge's position to make new laws, the only way they could've received that kind of reduced sentence is to be charged with a lesser crime or to have ignorance be an acceptable defense.

[Seussninja]

I'd blame "retarded parents" over veganism.

[GOB]

i'd be interested to see how much the baby weighed when it was born

[Aaron]

What do you think would happen if they were given a reduced sentence for a crime such as this? It would set precedent and be incorporated into the justice system, allowing any defense attorney to use it for their client.

Additionally, penalty is written into the law books along with the actual crime, and since it's not really a judge's position to make new laws, the only way they could've received that kind of reduced sentence is to be charged with a lesser crime or to have ignorance be an acceptable defense.

Listen, am I crying myself to sleep because these two idiots are going to be spending a lot of time in the clink? No.

Do I think that a life sentence is too severe for what they did? Yes.

That's it. Period, end of story.

I'm not advocating that laws be overturned, judges thrown off the bench, district attorneys be recalled or anything like that. I'm not offering commentary on the justice system, or judging the judge's (lolz) actions.

[impala454]

I think the prosecuter said it best

No matter how many times they want to say, ‘We’re vegans, we’re vegetarians,’ that’s not the issue in this case. The child died because he was not fed. Period.

[schwab]

fucking ignorant people, im curious how many people told them that they are killing their child by doing this before it happened

[Seussninja]

Ugh truthfully these people were probably totally insane crazy vegans. Normal Vegans at least have some sort of common sense about this sort of shit, trust me.

[impala454]

well what gets me is that there's all kinds of things that are unhealthy for kids, but fine for adults... this bugs the shit outta me. when my sister was pregnant, they told her to stay away from the cat litter box. i'm sittin here thinkin... why the hell is it ok for ME to be near it then!?!?! if a vegan diet is sooo healthy, how come a baby dies of malnutrition!??!

[Seussninja]

well what gets me is that there's all kinds of things that are unhealthy for kids, but fine for adults... this bugs the shit outta me. when my sister was pregnant, they told her to stay away from the cat litter box. i'm sittin here thinkin... why the hell is it ok for ME to be near it then!?!?! if a vegan diet is sooo healthy, how come a baby dies of malnutrition!??!

These parents probably didn't weigh their options very well. A baby's immune system is still developing and there is a certain toxin in cat shit that can cause birth defects so that explains that part, however, the truth of the matter is that a Vegan diet is ONLY healthy if you make all of the right steps to balance your nutrients.

Hell I can eat nothing but fucking french fries and be a "vegan" but i'll die from a heart attack in a few years.

[impala454]

so cat shit can grow the kid a third arm, but wont do anything to me? it's just strange to me is all

[Seussninja]

so cat shit can grow the kid a third arm, but wont do anything to me? it's just strange to me is all

I'm not really familiar with the phenomenon myself, so I can't really tell you what causes it, I just know it happens.

[Seussninja]

so cat shit can grow the kid a third arm, but wont do anything to me? it's just strange to me is all

I'm not really familiar with the phenomenon myself, so I can't really tell you what causes it, I just know it happens.

[Aaron]

Isn't peanut butter supposed to be really bad for little kids, too?

[Seussninja]

Isn't peanut butter supposed to be really bad for little kids, too?

Not sure about Peanut Butter but I know for a fact that Honey is.

[Aaron]

Not sure about Peanut Butter but I know for a fact that Honey is.

There's only one way for this to end... let's snake a baby and find out!

[Testm0nkey]

PB is bad for kids because their esophagus and inards are a lot smaller than adults - its a choking hazard.
honey gives them boculism (sp)
and babies are more suspectible to diseases and toxins than adults. for reasons i hope impala isnt dull enough to figure out

[Spectatrix]

apparently not for a baby

Infants should be fed breast milk. There's no better food for them. Formula is an adequate substitute if the mother is unwilling/unable to breastfeed and there are soy-based (and thus vegan) baby formulas available. They claimed to be feeding the kiddo soy milk and apple juice -- it couldn't have been getting enough fat on that diet. It was a matter of poor nutrition, period, not the fact that it was vegan nutrition; even whole milk (decidedly NOT vegan) wouldn't have been providing sufficient nutrition: http://www.iloveindia.com/nutrition/milk/index.html

[pysex]

Infants should be fed breast milk. There's no better food for them. Formula is an adequate substitute if the mother is unwilling/unable to breastfeed and there are soy-based (and thus vegan) baby formulas available. They claimed to be feeding the kiddo soy milk and apple juice -- it couldn't have been getting enough fat on that diet. It was a matter of poor nutrition, period, not the fact that it was vegan nutrition; even whole milk (decidedly NOT vegan) wouldn't have been providing sufficient nutrition: http://www.iloveindia.com/nutrition/milk/index.html

Veganism causes an extreme lack in Proteins, Vitamins B12, Vitamin D, and Iron. All of those things are needed for a developing child. Yes you can find those things in different vegetables but you either have to eat a lot of it or have some kind of supplement to your diet. The only thing you don't get from a vegan diet is healthy fat. So the baby was just digesting itself.

Folks. I don't care if you think you're being healthy by eating just vegetables. We weren't meant for it. We're omnivores and we're supposed to moderate the amounts of each kind of food we eat. We need animal fat and protein. We need the vitamins and minerals present in veggies. So balance your fucking diet and stop worrying about the cows that are bread for the slaughter.

[Junsui]

The only thing you don't get from a vegan diet is healthy fat.

What about Avocados? They have good fat.

[pysex]

What about Avocados? They have good fat.

I stand corrected.

[Divergent Realit...]

Toxoplasmosis


from the fda web site:

Toxoplasmosis is transmitted only through raw meat and cat feces, both of which pregnant women should try to avoid. The disease causes malformations of the brain, liver and spleen if a fetus becomes infected in the first trimester.

[Junsui]

Toxoplasmosis
from the fda web site:

Ewww ingestion of cat feces.

[James]

Toxoplasmosis
from the fda web site:

Great! Never heard them say "I can't cook because I'm pregnant," but it's coming soon!

[Testm0nkey]

what the doctors warned my sister about wasnt the feces of her cat but messing with the cats litter (cleaning it, moving it, inhaling its fumes) unless you have the recycled paper kind its toxic for baby

edit: and the cat walking int he litter than walking around spreading it everywhere, jumpin on babies face etc

[JRockTTU]

Hell I can eat nothing but fucking french fries and be a "vegan" but i'll die from a heart attack in a few years.

You see this Jessica!

[Seussninja]

Veganism causes an extreme lack in Proteins, Vitamins B12, Vitamin D, and Iron. All of those things are needed for a developing child. Yes you can find those things in different vegetables but you either have to eat a lot of it or have some kind of supplement to your diet. The only thing you don't get from a vegan diet is healthy fat. So the baby was just digesting itself.

Folks. I don't care if you think you're being healthy by eating just vegetables. We weren't meant for it. We're omnivores and we're supposed to moderate the amounts of each kind of food we eat. We need animal fat and protein. We need the vitamins and minerals present in veggies. So balance your fucking diet and stop worrying about the cows that are bread for the slaughter.

Have you looked at a can of beans? Tofu? Both have a fairly high fat content. What do you think sugars turn into once they are processed? Fat. I agree with you on the subject of omnivores and meats but don't make commentary without doing your research first.

[impala454]

us humans have incisors for a reason, and it sure aint to rip a carrot in half

[griseyeux]

us humans have incisors for a reason, and it sure aint to rip a carrot in half

I approve this statement.

on a related note, I'm hungry for a big steak.

[Mommy]

You see this Jessica!

WHAT THE FUCK.... GREG



Dont make fun of my silly eating habits

edit: oh wait, it was JASON WHO IS THE CULPRIT

boo on you

[pysex]

Have you looked at a can of beans? Tofu? Both have a fairly high fat content. What do you think sugars turn into once they are processed? Fat. I agree with you on the subject of omnivores and meats but don't make commentary without doing your research first.

Vegans are potentially at risk for being deficient in nutrients such as vitamin B12,[49] vitamin D,[50] calcium,[51][50] iodine[52] and omega-3 fatty acids.[53] These deficiencies can have potentially serious consequences, including anemia,[54] rickets[55] and cretinism[56] in children, and osteomalacia[55] and hyperthyroidism[56] in adults. Supplementation, particularly for vitamin B12, is highly recommended for vegans.[57]

By healthy fat I meant things like omega-3 and omega-6. Those are extremely important fats that aren't normal in a vegan diet. You can still find fat in beans, tofu, and avocados but it is just fat.


This really doesn't have to do with fat but worth the read.

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/soy_studies.html