Immigration issues (split from VT thread), guns, etc. Options

[cupcake]

my proposed gun law changes borne from this incident (laws mind you...something criminals disregard):

-U.S. citizenship required for purchase (no 'resident alien' malarkey)

-abolish gun-free zones except for federal and govt properties and airplanes/ports. Place law-abiding conceal/carry permit owners on a level playing field for defense.

unfortunately, however, I feel that will be the opposite of what come of this...leaving law-abiders even more defenseless, eventually creating a population of outlaws carrying whatever/whenever the hell they want...

[Inferia]

my proposed gun law changes borne from this incident (laws mind you...something criminals disregard):

-U.S. citizenship required for purchase (no 'resident alien' malarkey)

-abolish gun-free zones except for federal and govt properties and airplanes/ports. Place law-abiding conceal/carry permit owners on a level playing field for defense.

unfortunately, however, I feel that will be the opposite of what come of this...leaving law-abiders even more defenseless, eventually creating a population of outlaws carrying whatever/whenever the hell they want...

I don't think requiring citizenship will cure anything. Most people who are on permanent residency in the US have been in this country for years. The only thing that stands between you and a citizenship is a test that asks you how many stars are on the flag and a few hundred bucks. Not letting these people get guns is not solving much.

[Psykopath]

oh nah not cracking on history, just saying people don't tend to take history seriously if their major is something else.

oh man, VERY true. Had education majors in my history senior seminar class...literally used words like "cool," "and stuff," writing in first-person, etc.

-U.S. citizenship required for purchase (no 'resident alien' malarkey)

Agree 100%

-abolish gun-free zones except for federal and govt properties and airplanes/ports. Place law-abiding conceal/carry permit owners on a level playing field for defense.

Disagree 100%
I don't want some emo frat boy walking around campus with his 9, starting a gunfight when he sees his girlfriend kiss another guy (random example of a crime of passion).


My view on guns: You should need a license in order to own/purchase firearms and ammo. You need a license to operate a car (and a title to prove ownership), why not something that is EXTREMELY dangerous no matter which way you slice it? I'm not talking about restricting anything in terms of firearm quantity, type (within reason), etc., just have a license database that holds such pertinent information as backround info, demographic type stuff, any mental health records, etc. needed to competently own and use a firearm.

My view isn't popular because of the inevitable 2nd amendment stuff that people will try to stretch against my very logical point (at least imo), but it is my opinion on the matter.

[cupcake]

I don't think requiring citizenship will cure anything. Most people who are on permanent residency in the US have been in this country for years. The only thing that stands between you and a citizenship is a test that asks you how many stars are on the flag and a few hundred bucks. Not letting these people get guns is not solving much.

with all due respect, I see it differently...

Being a citizen, taking that test, shows that you want to be an American, not just nurse off her tit.

...and being an American affords you 2nd amendment rights. Just taking up space here doesn't (in my opinion). Obviously the govt feels differently...which I think will be the eventual downfall of this country.

edit: inferia, do not read this as a hatred of legal aliens...I work with two ex-soviet buddies who are unapologetically "Russian", though they live and prosper here. But I don't think they should have the same rights and freedoms as citizens.

check out other countries and how they deal with noncitizens before you start to even begin saying anything about America. I got an offer to move to Nicaragua and make ass loads of cash, but I would never be able to own a car there.

[impala454]

i understand the reasoning behind wanting to require citizenship to buy a gun, but it wouldn't have prevented this crime. peole who are intent on a crime will do it. especially one where they intend to commit suicide afterwards.

[cupcake]

I understand that...and said that at the beginning.

I am talking about my proposed gun laws...

[Inferia]

with all due respect, I see it differently...

Being a citizen, taking that test, shows that you want to be an American, not just nurse off her tit.

...and being an American affords you 2nd amendment rights. Just taking up space here doesn't (in my opinion). Obviously the govt feels differently...which I think will be the eventual downfall of this country.

edit: inferia, do not read this as a hatred of legal aliens...I work with two ex-soviet buddies who are unapologetically "Russian", though they live and prosper here. But I don't think they should have the same rights and freedoms as citizens.

check out other countries and how they deal with noncitizens before you start to even begin saying anything about America. I got an offer to move to Nicaragua and make ass loads of cash, but I would never be able to own a car there.

No, I understand what you're trying to say. Well, I will counter. We pay taxes just as you do, the same amount of tax. By paying this tax, we expect a certain amount of rights. If you are taking the 2nd amendment away, do you then take away the 1st amendment too? Are we no longer able the freedom of speech, because that is only for the citizens of America? Do you also take away the freedom of assembly? Then if those amendments do not apply to noncitizens, are we then allow to own slaves? How do you justify allowing some amendments and not allowing other amendments? Well? If you want to take away those rights, hell, I shouldn't as hell pay as much tax as the rest of you. You said it first, no taxation without representation.

I don't know if you can compare all countries fairly. The US is an immigrate nation, this country is built on the backs of immigrants. Not all nations are, most nations are probably are not in favor of immigrants. And it takes a long ass time to become a permanent resident in this country. It took my family 7 years, and some even longer. It's not something you decide yesterday and just want to do. If Cho wanted to do this, he would have still done it if citizenship was required to purchase a gun. Becoming a citizen is not that hard in this country as compared to becoming a permanent resident. Even from a money point of view, citizenship a few hundred dollars + 1 year, permanent residency thousand or tens of thousands of dollars + 4 - 15 years. You really think you can stop someone from doing this just by reenforcing a citizenship on gun control? If they can put up with 4 - 15 years and thousands of dollars, they can put up with 1 year, some chump change, and a test that asks how many states are in the US.

And btw, immigrants here are not "just taking up space". We work, and pay taxes just like you do. Somehow people get immigrants, and illegal immigrants confused. By being an immigrant, we are automatically assumed to be leeching off the system here. It's not only rude, it's wrong. It's very arrogant to think that you're doing some sort of favor for letting me live here.

[impala454]

this isn't an issue of immigrants, gun control, video game violence, or school policies. it's simply a matter of a socially inept person gone crazy. literally crazy. in that other thread, one of the mass murders i posted was some dude killing a bunch of people at a mcdonalds. in the write up, it showed that before the guy went, his wife asked "where are you going?" and he told her "to hunt humans".

[jonathan83]

We pay taxes just as you do, the same amount of tax. By paying this tax, we expect a certain amount of rights.

I don't think people should be given rights just because of paying into the government. By that way of thinking, any random terrorist could buy their rights way too easy. You can't buy your rights (such as owning a gun).

I believe you need to earn them, by patriotism. Of course, actual born US citizens have a certain pride for their country and will fight for their country. You can't always trust foreign-born citizens, since they too have a special love for their own country. I'm not saying that all foreign-born citizens are spies or terrorists, but you can't deny that they have their own pride for their country, and in a time of war, or something where it's their home country vs the US, they might choose their country of birth, where their true patriotism lies.

I know this might not be the case 100%, but then again you never know. That's why we have to be safe rather than sorry. and I'm not saying that foreign-born citizens shouldn't have rights or whatever, just that they should be earned in other ways. For example, pledging allegiance to the US, taking tests on the English language, basic American history and culture, etc.

[Inferia]

I don't think people should be given rights just because of paying into the government. By that way of thinking, any random terrorist could buy their rights way too easy. You can't buy your rights (such as owning a gun).

I believe you need to earn them, by patriotism. Of course, actual born US citizens have a certain pride for their country and will fight for their country. You can't always trust foreign-born citizens, since they too have a special love for their own country. I'm not saying that all foreign-born citizens are spies or terrorists, but you can't deny that they have their own pride for their country, and in a time of war, or something where it's their home country vs the US, they might choose their country of birth, where their true patriotism lies.

I know this might not be the case 100%, but then again you never know. That's why we have to be safe rather than sorry. and I'm not saying that foreign-born citizens shouldn't have rights or whatever, just that they should be earned in other ways. For example, pledging allegiance to the US, taking tests on the English language, basic American history and culture, etc.

So why do you allow non-citizens to fight and die for America at the times of war? You think they're doing it for shits and giggles? Do you think they should be allowed guns then? Or should the US send them off with spears and swords?

And I'm sure the dude knows American history, and know the culture, and if he can go and kill 32 random people, I don't think he's worried about burning in hell if he fibs a lil during the "I pledge..." part.

[GOB]

fuck immigrants. legal and illegal.

[jonathan83]

So why do you allow non-citizens to fight and die for America at the times of war? You think they're doing it for shits and giggles? Do you think they should be allowed guns then? Or should the US send them off with spears and swords?

well if non-citizens join the military, that itself would be a 'pledge of allegiance' to the US, and would be renouncing their citizenship of their home country. of course, i dont think just any non-citizen should be able to join...they of course should have to pass certain tests like i mentioned above. they need to know about our country, not just come here and not know our history, culture, language, etc.

and just on a personal note, i know you know english, know our history, have lived here for a long time, etc. so i think you should have those rights! (if you also renounce your chinese citizenship )

This post has been edited by jonathan83: Apr 19 2007, 03:55 PM

[Inferia]

well if non-citizens join the military, that itself would be a 'pledge of allegiance' to the US, and would be denouncing their citizenship of their home country. of course, i dont think just any non-citizen should be able to join...they of course should have to pass certain tests like i mentioned above. they need to know about our country, not just come here and not know our history, culture, language, etc.

and just on a personal note, i know you know english, know our history, have lived here for a long time, etc. so i think you should have those rights! (if you also renounce your chinese citizenship;))

There are many foreign soldiers fighting for America in Iraq right now, by foreign I mean non-citizens who are trying to gain american permanent residency. They could or could not become citizens after that. Then as long as you're fighting for American you can hold guns? How do you know they won't turn that gun around on one of their fellow soldiers? Kinda hypocritical huh? Also the number for non-citizen American soldiers dying are rarely reported in the news.

I have been here for a long time, in fact, I've been here for 14 years. And in my opinion, if he wanted to buy guns to kill people, a citizenship test will not stop him.

[jonathan83]

And in my opinion, if he wanted to buy guns to kill people, a citizenship test will not stop him.

Actually I disagree with that. Now, with many "criminals" you're right. they will find ways.

But Cho Seung-Hui was a loner with NO friends and no social skills at all. I think if he was denied a gun legally, he wouldn't have got the guns. I don't see this guy going through gangs or criminals to get them. How would he? He didnt know anybody, and you have to know certain (bad) people to get into that stuff.

[pysex]

you should be a u.s. citizen to be able to practice u.s. rights....




PERIOD

[cupcake]

after reading Inferia's well written arguments, I just now realized I am turning into an isolationist and not capable of an objective discourse over the subject of immigration anymore.

America was founded by immigrants. was...

We're no longer in the business of populating this country and building it up...we need to be in the business of protecting it (not just defensively, but culturally as well).

god did I just write that?

circle the damn wagons...

[John6.7]

You guys have weird views towards legal permanent residents.

Alex: What does "practice u.s. rights" mean?

[zetec]

You guys have weird views towards legal permanent residents.

Alex: What does "practice u.s. rights" mean?

he's saying that people who aren't citizens shouldn't be allowed to speak/write, not be a slave, not have to have their houses quartered, etc etc

[pysex]

You guys have weird views towards legal permanent residents.

Alex: What does "practice u.s. rights" mean?

exactly as it sounds

i'm tired of america being used as the world's playground...if aliens want the freedoms that we have then they should become citizens...


or...make a different set of rights for legal aliens (obviously more restrictive)


deport and exile all illegal residents

[John6.7]

exactly as it sounds

i'm tired of america being used as the world's playground...if aliens want the freedoms that we have then they should become citizens...
or...make a different set of rights for legal aliens (obviously more restrictive)
deport and exile all illegal residents

I guess citizens and residents can't be friends then, right?

[pysex]

I guess citizens and residents can't be friends then, right?

i'm sorry if it's pissing you off

but understand i'm really angry that a foreigner can buy guns

i didn't know that right was available to legal aliens....it's like nothing is ever exclusive to americans anymore...

people want to extend rights to some fucking jihadder in a prison camp

[TetraGrammaton C...]

wow, i cannot believe the amount of bigotry and xenophobia here.

i think in regard to this particular issue, race is merely a characteristic. it has no causal effect on the argument and is not really worthy of discussion in relation to this particular violent act.

much like in drug dealings, making the purchasing of firearms illegal to one group or another only stimulates the black market economy.

this country is founded on equal rights. there is no allowance for half-citizenship or super-citizenship. an establishment of any sort of enforced social hierarchy would cause indescribable conflict.

This post has been edited by TetraGrammaton Cleric: Apr 20 2007, 03:01 AM

[koreanp1e]

no wonder west texas blows. racist moterfucking idiots live here.
they think foreigners are different species who shouldn't have a right to protect themselves against thieves and robbers by bearing arms just because they live in a different landscape.

what kind of twisted non-sensical logic is that ?

I am glad I am out of this shit hole.

[GOB]

no wonder west texas blows. racist moterfucking idiots live here.
they think foreigners are different species who shouldn't have a right to protect themselves against thieves and robbers by bearing arms just because they live in a different landscape.

what kind of twisted non-sensical logic is that ?

I am glad I am out of this shit hole.

and you foreigners think that everyone is out to get you. different species? this is why you come off as weirdos, creating your own members-only colonies, scoffing at american laws and just general regional normality (oddly, though, this is all going on while you're taking complete advantage of our liberal laws and free market systems). i have no problem with immigration as long as it leads to a reasonably quick (and total) assimilation. when you act that way, when you shut out everyone who isn't the exact same as you, you are the different species. most of the people on here aren't even from west texas-- you generalizing about texas tech students is as ignorant as a white guy saying you all look alike.

aww, international students get the short end of the stick. maybe making the effort to extend out from your comfort zone to meet some white and black people would soften the cultural barriers... but nobody does that in college. that takes too much work, and chances are, somebody might end up still not liking you. the horror!

non-citizens most certainly DO NOT deserve the same rights as natural born americans without a hell of a lot of earned trust. they're guests in our country, and they should act as such. how are we supposed to trust immigrants when they are so vocal about how they do not trust us? they don't trust the police, the politicians, the teachers. what kind of nonsensical fantasy logic is that?

funny how i can't go into a chinese or mexican grocery store without being treated like i'm the immigrant, but anytime "you people" feel threatened (or if i can't assist somebody in spanish), there's a public outcry about how this is the most violent and racist country.

hell, maybe a bilingual america is a good thing. it would force anyone who speaks neither english nor spanish to get their shit together or get out.

edit: i realize that this has strayed pretty far from the original topic, but give me a break.

[impala454]

if someone comes here legally, they deserve all the rights we afford here. including buying guns.

you guys arguing against this... what are you gonna do? take away every single legal immigrant's guns because one guy who had been here for 14 years went nuts? I don't think you see the irony. You're rationalizing your idea in exactly the same way the gun control advocates do to say you(the US citizen) should have your guns taken away too. just be careful what you wish for, you could get more than you ask for

[Inferia]

Actually I disagree with that. Now, with many "criminals" you're right. they will find ways.

But Cho Seung-Hui was a loner with NO friends and no social skills at all. I think if he was denied a gun legally, he wouldn't have got the guns. I don't see this guy going through gangs or criminals to get them. How would he? He didnt know anybody, and you have to know certain (bad) people to get into that stuff.

Actually, I disagree with that too. So what if he had no friends, so what if he had no social skills. The guy doesn't need to go to gangs or criminals to get the guns. All he need to go through is the United States government. If the only thing that stood between him and what he wants is citizenship? The fucker will get it his citizenship. From the pro-gun point of view, guns don't kill people, people kill people, it won't do jack shit taking away permanent resident's rights of owning a gun, they will find a way.

The irony here is that personally I am against private ownership of guns, but dude, taking away our right of owning a gun isn't going to do much in terms of violence involving guns. Also, it's kinda shitty to take our rights away just on the bases that we're "foreign". Sometimes, I don't even know if this country is still an immigrant nation anymore. You sure as hell don't make it easy on us who are trying to become citizens of this country. I find it funny that the US still try to sell this "American Dream" business to everyone else in the world, that America is SO great, that by coming here, all your dreams are possible. When you do get here, all they really want to do is kick you out and well, think you shouldn't be here because you're taking away from "actual" Americans. Where is the dream there? And if you don't want immigrants here, perhaps America should try to sell themselves off a little differently. Like try, this country sucks, we'll take your rights away because you are foreign, so you really don't want to come here. This way not only do you preseve your American way of life, you also reduce job competition. Let's see how well this goes.

[cupcake]

preface...this is no longer about the shooter, but I think we can agree this has evolved into an entirely different dialogue...

wow, i cannot believe the amount of bigotry and xenophobia here.

bigotry? I don't think anyone who's expressed themselves here is prejudiced or intolerant. It's on a different level than that.

this country is founded on equal rights. there is no allowance for half-citizenship or super-citizenship. an establishment of any sort of enforced social hierarchy would cause indescribable conflict.

just for giggles...try

I've traveled extensively for the past 13 years and have been to every continent except antarctica...yet have I found another country that affords noncitizens the amount of rights as america.

the bill of rights applies to americans. residents are not americans...they are guests.

the way I see it, they are convoluting OUR society and we're having to change OUR culture to pacify them and check some PC box, lest offending someone. but they aren't even onboard enough to become americans. I mean at least have a vested interest in something if you want to change it.

are you telling me that if you rented a room in your house to some dude, you'd change what you do just to pacify him (say he's a strict nondrinker and you like to have wine at dinner...yet that offends him)...you'd just rid the house of your vast collection? or if she is a vegan, you'd quit drinking milk and eating normally?

hell no you wouldn't.

sorry but that indescribable effect you mention is what's going to happen if we keep rolling along this way. the only way to keep america "american" is to quit being the world's bitches and police. the rest of the world keeps america's balls in a jar on their mantle...

I wasn't born of this mindset, and it didn't occur overnight. it's a realization I am slowly (and with much reservation and guilt) coming to as time goes on.

[cupcake]

Actually, I disagree with that too. So what if he had no friends, so what if he had no social skills. The guy doesn't need to go to gangs or criminals to get the guns. All he need to go through is the United States government. If the only thing that stood between him and what he wants is citizenship? The fucker will get it his citizenship. From the pro-gun point of view, guns don't kill people, people kill people, it won't do jack shit taking away permanent resident's rights of owning a gun, they will find a way.

The irony here is that personally I am against private ownership of guns, but dude, taking away our right of owning a gun isn't going to do much in terms of violence involving guns. Also, it's kinda shitty to take our rights away just on the bases that we're "foreign". Sometimes, I don't even know if this country is still an immigrant nation anymore. You sure as hell don't make it easy on us who are trying to become citizens of this country. I find it funny that the US still try to sell this "American Dream" business to everyone else in the world, that America is SO great, that by coming here, all your dreams are possible. When you do get here, all they really want to do is kick you out and well, think you shouldn't be here because you're taking away from "actual" Americans. Where is the dream there?

I truly am sorry, but the american dream is gone. we have enough americans. we have our culture. you missed that boat by a hundred years.

I don't think the US is still trying to sell shit to anyone overseas. products maybe, but definitely not a call to the free world like it once was.

[pysex]

if someone comes here legally, they deserve all the rights we afford here. including buying guns.

you guys arguing against this... what are you gonna do? take away every single legal immigrant's guns because one guy who had been here for 14 years went nuts? I don't think you see the irony. You're rationalizing your idea in exactly the same way the gun control advocates do to say you(the US citizen) should have your guns taken away too. just be careful what you wish for, you could get more than you ask for

i really don't like the idea that someone can come from another country with a visa and then arm themselves


and everyone keeps saying this dude went nuts....i think his actions were calculated
he was conscious of his actions and i wish people would stop making excuses for what he did


and how is denying gun purchasing to non citizens going to affect gun purchasing for citizens?

[pysex]

no wonder west texas blows. racist moterfucking idiots live here.
they think foreigners are different species who shouldn't have a right to protect themselves against thieves and robbers by bearing arms just because they live in a different landscape.

what kind of twisted non-sensical logic is that ?

I am glad I am out of this shit hole.

If you think like that then I'm glad you're gone too.

I don't understand the logic in someone who wants to live here for 30 years and never become a citizen...but wants everything we have to offer. I don't think someone who's here on a temporary basis needs to be buying guns.

[chook]

everybody's racist a little bit sometimes.....

[Inferia]

i really don't like the idea that someone can come from another country with a visa and then arm themselves
and everyone keeps saying this dude went nuts....i think his actions were calculated
he was conscious of his actions and i wish people would stop making excuses for what he did
and how is denying gun purchasing to non citizens going to affect gun purchasing for citizens?

No one is making excuses for what he did. We're, or rather I am, just fighting for my right. Yes, his motives are calculated, and he has also been here for 14 fuckin' years. He hardly count as foreign.

I find it some of you have no idea what it is like to be an immigrant in this country and yet, you go as so much to think that we're offending you.

If America is the host, and we are the guest, then America is a very rude host sometimes. I sure as hope when I go over to someone's house they are polite to me. America is not a very polite country sometimes, in fact, a lot of time it's down right rude. Why do you think many countries hate America? It's this fuckin' attitude that you have. Do you even know how hard it is assemilation is? How hard it is when there isn't anyone to help you. You walk into this country blind, blinded by Hollywood, blinded by the news, and there really isn't a person here to show you the way. How well do you learn without someone guiding you. It's not like there's a book out there titled "How to be Americanized". And let's not even talk about how wrong that is. You think you feel weird walking into a Chinese store or a Mexican store, try walking that everyday of your fuckin' life and everywhere else you go. Yes, we're in this country in the form of a guest, and as guest we should be courteous, but as host, you should be just as courteous.

AND who the fuck said that immigrants are not on board to become Americans. Who the fuck give you the idea that foreigners are here just to soak up your money and take advantage of America. IN fact, most immigrants dream is to become an American citizen. But from the recent surge of all this anti-immigration, maybe, I will take my American education, I will take my Ph.D somewhere else where people are more accepting of people who are different. And with this attitude people have I suspect many foreign students will not want to stay in a country that is not at all welcoming, they will take away their knowledge, their degrees, and help another country to be a better country. Let's see who comes out the winner

Sorry Pysex, this is not really directed at you.

[pysex]

the way I see it, they are convoluting OUR society and we're having to change OUR culture to pacify them and check some PC box, lest offending someone. but they aren't even onboard enough to become americans. I mean at least have a vested interest in something if you want to change it.

yeah

and now anyone who thinks like that is a racist bigot

we're the ones in the wrong for wanting to preserve our society

[pysex]

If America is the host, and we are the guest, then America is a very rude host sometimes. I sure as hope when I go over to someone's house they are polite to me. America is not a very polite country sometimes, in fact, a lot of time it's down right rude. Why do you think many countries hate America? It's this fuckin' attitude that you have. Do you even know how hard it is assemilation is? How hard it is when there isn't anyone to help you. You walk into this country blind, blinded by Hollywood, blinded by the news, and there really isn't a person here to show you the way. How well do you learn without someone guiding you. It's not like there's a book out there titled "How to be Americanized". And let's not even talk about how wrong that is. You think you feel weird walking into a Chinese store or a Mexican store, try walking that everyday of your fuckin' life and everywhere else you go. Yes, we're in this country in the form of a guest, and as guest we should be courteous, but as host, you should be just as courteous. Sorry Pysex, this is not really directed at you.

I understand your frustration...I do.

But as you asked.."Why do you think many countries hate America?"

Do you think it's wise to let someone from another country come here and buy guns if so many countries hate us. What's to stop a terrorist from coming here and doing just that. We're supposed to be this amazing country of opportunity but assholes keep shittin in our front yard and calling us the bad guys.

[chook]

I was trying to find a book titled "How to be Americanized" and found this for me instead!
How to Attract Asian Women

[pysex]

I was trying to find a book titled "How to be Americanized" and found this for me instead!
How to Attract Asian Women

haha

[cupcake]

some of y'all need to head over to england and talk to the brits about how well being open-arms is going for them.

they are overrun hardcore and it is really impacting their great society.

[Inferia]

I understand your frustration...I do.

But as you asked.."Why do you think many countries hate America?"

Do you think it's wise to let someone from another country come here and buy guns if so many countries hate us. What's to stop a terrorist from coming here and doing just that. We're supposed to be this amazing country of opportunity but assholes keep shittin in our front yard and calling us the bad guys.

If they are really terroists, you really think they can't figure out a way to get guns in this country? I think it's kind of naive to think that by taking away their rights to buy guns then they won't be able to get it. Many Americans hate other Americans, do you think it's wise to let these people buy guns? Plus, a foreigner can board a plane and crash that plane into a tall building, do we then not allow foreign people fly in this country?

Sorry if I'm taking this really personally, but I'm in the process of debating whether if I want to become a citizen of this country. And shit like this really want me to have nothing to do with this country.

[kcroxyoursox]

He hardly count as foreign.

He's foreign-born, nothing he could do, no amount of patriotism or way of life and thinking, can change that fact. If I went and lived in Australia for 14 years, I would still be American because I was born in America.

You think you feel weird walking into a Chinese store or a Mexican store, try walking that everyday of your fuckin' life and everywhere else you go.

I find it hard to believe that EVERY SINGLE DAY of your life there's such a cataclysmic event that makes you feel so out of your element.

Who the fuck give you the idea that foreigners are here just to soak up your money and take advantage of America.

maybe, I will take my American education, I will take my Ph.D somewhere else

Do you contradict yourself? Very well, you contradict yourself.

[Inferia]

He's foreign-born, nothing he could do, no amount of patriotism or way of life and thinking, can change that fact. If I went and lived in Australia for 14 years, I would still be American because I was born in America.
I find it hard to believe that EVERY SINGLE DAY of your life there's such a cataclysmic event that makes you feel so out of your element.
Do you contradict yourself? Very well, you contradict yourself.

You're not 8 anymore, dear, it's not the same. How do you know what I feel? And I do not contradict myself. I would like to stay in this country, but people in this country sure as hell do not make it easy. Many people in this country sure as hell make me feel like I'm just soaking in your hard work. And by becoming citizen I will not feel differently, I will still foreign, because people in this country will make me feel foreign till the day I die.

[Dogmeat]

You're not 8 anymore, dear. And I do not contradict myself. I would like to stay in this country, but people in this country sure as hell do not make it easy. Many people in this country sure as hell make me feel like I'm just soaking in your hard work. And by becoming citizen I will not feel differently, I will still foreign, because people in this country will make me feel foreign till the day I die.

Honestly, my advice to people not born here but are here now or are citizens here.....it's so simple ... like ... even if you DO learn english, and speak english, and have an accent..

It's so simple to do this:

Cuss a lot.

I'm serious. Americans cuss like sailors. All of us do.

It's seriously like we relate better to people who cuss all the time ...

I'm serious, it works. A lot of the foreign guys who I'm working with now have adapted to this and the ones who have seriously feel more at home ... I've even talked to them about this.

It sounds crazy but I've seriously noticed this ...

[Inferia]

now that's just some muthafuckin' crazy shit, people everywhere cuss just as much as muthafuckin' americans, they just don't cuss in English.

[kcroxyoursox]

You're not 8 anymore, dear, it's not the same.

So age is the deciding factor? If my leaving at 22 makes me an American but him leaving at 8 doesn't make him Korean, what's the magical in between age where that changes? What if I had been 21, 20, 19, 18? What if he had been 9, 10, 11, 12?

How do you know what I feel?

You're right, I don't. But I have a sneaking suspicion if you felt so alienated day in and day out that you wouldn't be so interested in staying here.

[Dogmeat]

now that's just some muthafuckin' crazy shit, people everywhere cuss just as much as muthafuckin' americans, they just don't cuss in English.

whoa really?

I didnt know that hahah

[Inferia]

So age is the deciding factor? If my leaving at 22 makes me an American but him leaving at 8 doesn't make him Korean, what's the magical in between age where that changes? What if I had been 21, 20, 19, 18? What if he had been 9, 10, 11, 12?
You're right, I don't. But I have a sneaking suspicion if you felt so alienated day in and day out that you wouldn't be so interested in staying here.

It makes a huge difference. Leaving at the age of 20+ is very different from when you're 8 or so. At age 20 you are attached to this country. Your friends are here, your families are here, the world you've grown to know is in this country. At the age of 8, you don't know anything. Many people don't really remember much from before that age of the country you used to reside. You have very little connection to the people in that country, very little understand of their culture that they live in, you probably would hardly speak that language. And in essence you have become americanized. And it is very hard to Americanize someone at the age of 20 or even in their teens.

Personally, I don't feel that alienated in this country. But many people stay here even though they do because of the comfort this country provides them. And it is hard for those people. I don't think it is that difficult for Americans to offer a little help and understanding.

[pysex]

If they are really terroists, you really think they can't figure out a way to get guns in this country? I think it's kind of naive to think that by taking away their rights to buy guns then they won't be able to get it. Many Americans hate other Americans, do you think it's wise to let these people buy guns? Plus, a foreigner can board a plane and crash that plane into a tall building, do we then not allow foreign people fly in this country?

Sorry if I'm taking this really personally, but I'm in the process of debating whether if I want to become a citizen of this country. And shit like this really want me to have nothing to do with this country.

If you want to stay here you probably understand how the quality of life is pretty fucking good.

There is a lot of prejudice...even moreso because of the situation we're in now. Naturally I'm going to be paranoid of a resident coming into this country and having the ability to buy guns. Even having the ability makes me uncomfortable. I'm not saying you're dangerous. I also understand that there's a higher probability of me being shot by a fellow American than by a foreigner.


I just don't like the fact that non citizens have the right to bear arms. That doesn't give me a feeling of complete security...something we need right now.

[Inferia]

If you want to stay here you probably understand how the quality of life is pretty fucking good.

There is a lot of prejudice...even moreso because of the situation we're in now. Naturally I'm going to be paranoid of a resident coming into this country and having the ability to buy guns. Even having the ability makes me uncomfortable. I'm not saying you're dangerous. I also understand that there's a higher probability of me being shot by a fellow American than by a foreigner.
I just don't like the fact that non citizens have the right to bear arms. That doesn't give me a feeling of complete security...something we need right now.

He's a permanent resident though, he didn't just come into this country. Would you be more comfortable with home-made bombs then?

I understand how the situation is shitty right now, but by taking away rights, is not the way to make things less shitty. I think it will actually make things more shitty. As someone who's lived here for 14 years, I just find it disturbing that my rights are being taken away little by little. Maybe one day I'll wake up without any rights, and then I'll have to make a decision of leaving this country or staying in it. And either choice is does not seem very palpable to me.

[FORSAKENR320]

7 years for naturalization i think? until they've been here 7 yrs, no guns. after that, it's our responsibility to accept them as legal full u.s. citizens

[Inferia]

7 years for naturalization i think? until they've been here 7 yrs, no guns. after that, it's our responsibility to accept them as legal full u.s. citizens

try 12 years at least. Green card takes a few years, depending on which speed you apply. After that you have to wait 5 years before you can become a citizen.

[pysex]

He's a permanent resident though, he didn't just come into this country. Would you be more comfortable with home-made bombs then?

I understand how the situation is shitty right now, but by taking away rights, is not the way to make things less shitty. I think it will actually make things more shitty. As someone who's lived here for 14 years, I just find it disturbing that my rights are being taken away little by little. Maybe one day I'll wake up without any rights, and then I'll have to make a decision of leaving this country or staying in it. And either choice is does not seem very palpable to me.

I'm not calling for a complete removal of rights for any legal resident.

I think the two major things that shouldn't be allowed are buying guns and protesting the government. Those two things should be exclusive rights to American citizens.

[FORSAKENR320]

try 12 years at least. Green card takes a few years, depending on which speed you apply. After that you have to wait 5 years before you can become a citizen.

WELL, THEN THEY WAIT 12 YEARS

the point is, they have to do their time to earn all the rights of being an american. but once they do earn them, we have no right to deny them full citizenship.

[Inferia]

WELL, THEN THEY WAIT 12 YEARS

the point is, they have to do their time to earn all the rights of being an american. but once they do earn them, we have no right to deny them full citizenship.

Then what else do you propose to take away from non-citizens? What parts of the amendment apply to us and what part don't? So once they become citizens, then they can go ahead and buy guns and do these deeds because they earned their right?

What am I trying to say is that taking away the right to bare arm from non-citizens will not solve anything. Unless you're saying that guns are the problem, them you should take away the right for everyone. Because if you don't think that guns are the problem, then if someone wants to kill someone else, taking away their right to purchase a firearm will not stop these people.

[cupcake]

Then what else do you propose to take away from non-citizens? What parts of the amendment apply to us and what part don't?

pysex summed it up

"I think the two major things that shouldn't be allowed are buying guns and protesting the government. Those two things should be exclusive rights to American citizens."

do resident aliens have the right to vote? if so, then that too is something they dont need. I'm unsure what all they can after all this...

[Inferia]

pysex summed it up

"I think the two major things that shouldn't be allowed are buying guns and protesting the government. Those two things should be exclusive rights to American citizens."

do resident aliens have the right to vote? if so, then that too is something they dont need. I'm unsure what all they can after all this...

Permanent residents, or green card holders are more or less guaranteed the same amount of rights as most American. With the following exceptions:

1. they do not have the right to vote on national/state elections, I think they do have the right to vote on locale issues, such as shooting of mourning doves (don't ask).

2. they can't work at certain government jobs because of security issues.

3. if they commit a crime, I think they can be sent back to their country of citizenship

Other than that I can't think of anymore

[The Fanatic]

How many mass murderers, spree killers, serial killers were American citizens?

[cupcake]

"most" were

I've moved past this kid and the VT thing...

[The Fanatic]

Exactly

[pysex]

Permanent residents, or green card holders are more or less guaranteed the same amount of rights as most American. With the following exceptions:

1. they do not have the right to vote on national/state elections, I think they do have the right to vote on locale issues, such as shooting of mourning doves (don't ask).

Wait....what? Residents can vote on local issues? Is that like city voting?

[FORSAKENR320]

Then what else do you propose to take away from non-citizens?

it's not taking away anything that they shouldn't have had the right for anyway. you should have to earn that crap. non-citizens should't recieve the benifits of the constitution, the rights they portray, until they are fully subjugated to the laws that also defend those rights. meaning they have to be full u.s. citizens.

How many mass murderers, spree killers, serial killers were American citizens?

how many times in the past several months has some wetback motherfucker decided to stab somebody in the clubs? my friend Gabe was killed last year by 2 wetbacks, who were only deported. i was stabbed by a fucking wetback in the arm that only got deported. one of the people that kept kidnapping girls in lubbock was an immigrant also, but america managed to keep ahold of him rather than deport him. those fuckers shouldn't be allowed to recieve ANY benifits. welfare, hud, ANYTHING AT-FUCKING-ALL until they have earned the right to be americans fully. when they are full americans, then they can recieve aid, but they are also fully subjected to our laws and should act accordingly. leeching sons of bitches that take advantage of the system while still flying the mexican flag. fuck them and send those bean eating mother fuckers back to mexico via catapult and erect the god damn Great Wall of Texas already!

[jonathan83]

Sometimes, I don't even know if this country is still an immigrant nation anymore.

It's not really. Like cupcake said, that was a long time ago when our country was just beginning. Now, we have a complete gov't and system setup. Everything in this world changes, just like America does too.

You sure as hell don't make it easy on us who are trying to become citizens of this country.

Actually, I believe immigrants in America have it the EASIEST! I'm not talking about attaining citizenship, but look at all the RIGHTS you guys have. Plus, you can find FREE help, and many organizations and clubs with people like you, free lawyers to help you, free language classes, sooooo many things are offered in this country. Now, when I lived in Korea, were there ANY clubs or organizations f or Americans to come together? NO. they are a very close country and they really don't treat foreigners too well (on a government and rights level...on a personal side they treat them well). i couldnt even get a cell phone in my name, or anything for that matter, i just had to get a pre-paid plan like every other foreigner, which costs a lot.

this is just one country in particular.

and Inferia, when I went to China, do you know how hard it was just to be a tourist? In America, you can find translating services everywhere, tour guides in many languages. For you specifically, you can find millions of people in the USA that speak Chinese, etc.
When I was in Beijing, I met almost NOBODY that could speak English. I also read many books and talked to other travelers, and China is well known for not speaking English hardly at all. This is the capital and biggest city in the country, and its so extremely difficult to communicate with anybody.
But you know what? I didnt complain at all, it's all part of the traveling experience and I enjoy that. I enjoyed trying to learn a few phrases here and there, and if i really wanted to become a citizen, you'd bet your ass i'd learn the language out of respect for that country and culture and people.
Now as far as organizations and help i could go to.. do they have specific help for USA citizens in China? no. i dont think so.
Actually, as far as getting just a tourist VISA in China...USA citizens have to pay the MOST out of the everybody else, and have to wait longer too.

I find it funny that the US still try to sell this "American Dream" business to everyone else in the world, that America is SO great, that by coming here, all your dreams are possible. When you do get here, all they really want to do is kick you out and well, think you shouldn't be here because you're taking away from "actual" Americans. Where is the dream there?

the US is still trying to sell some "American Dream" business? I don't believe so. Where have you seen this? Yes, we probably recruit geniuses from other countries to come to our universities, but other than that, what?

And if you don't want immigrants here, perhaps America should try to sell themselves off a little differently. Like try, this country sucks, we'll take your rights away because you are foreign, so you really don't want to come here.

Actually, we can't stop the immigrants. We aren't asking for them, they keep coming in. Most of them, illegaly. Americans are not asking immigrants to come in, do you ever see that?

Look, I'm not saying you are unwelcomed or anything like that. But if this is the process you have to go through in this country, please respect it. It's a lot worse other places in the world. If this IS supposed to be the "greatest country in the world" then we must make it so everything isnt easy, right?

[James]

it's not taking away anything that they shouldn't have had the right for anyway. you should have to earn that crap. non-citizens should't recieve the benifits of the constitution, the rights they portray, until they are fully subjugated to the laws that also defend those rights. meaning they have to be full u.s. citizens.

I have to ask...

What did you do to earn those rights? What have you done for your country lately, other than pay taxes, the same taxes that everyone else that lives here for more than 6 months (I think it's 6) out of a year has to pay?

Personally, I don't think I have earned a thing by having my mother squirt me out 24 years ago. Some people seem to think they have.

All this arguing is stupid. Both sides are being fueled by a hatred that isn't normally present except for extreme times. Both sides have valid points and both sides have fucking ignorant points. Just stop before you say something you'd regret in the future.

[Testm0nkey]

you have to take into account immigration to america compared to say immigration to China even countries in Europe. Whenever, figuratively speaking, everyone and their mom is trying to come to America you have to put some stop to that.

edit: and its not like the US is tough on citizenship its more like we are just reaching the already set standards that exist everywhere else

[FORSAKENR320]

I have to ask...

What did you do to earn those rights? What have you done for your country lately, other than pay taxes, the same taxes that everyone else that lives here for more than 6 months (I think it's 6) out of a year has to pay?

Personally, I don't think I have earned a thing by having my mother squirt me out 24 years ago. Some people seem to think they have.

All this arguing is stupid. Both sides are being fueled by a hatred that isn't normally present except for extreme times. Both sides have valid points and both sides have fucking ignorant points. Just stop before you say something you'd regret in the future.

no, i agree with you. but there is this point. they are coming to us. i didn't ask to be born here. i am glad i was, but i didn't have a choice in the matter. i grew up having to accept these laws. THOSE people have a 2nd option. they can stay there if they don't like it. they can go back if it's too tough.


and most illegals stay illegal. they get jobs that are off the books, therefore don't pay taxes. or they counterfeit identities and pay them. Excel meat packing in plainview is bad about that. you have 1 identity for work, a 2nd identity for welfare. if your first identity gets fired from excel, you take it to file unemployment. i talked to a friend of mine who i know is an illegal in plainview, and thats what his uncle does.

[Testm0nkey]

people still dont seem to understand how much we depend on illegal workers and the economy makes HUUUUUUUUUUGE amounts of money because of them

[cupcake]

agreed...I'd like to see a state sponsored "guest worker program"

James,

Both sides are being fueled by a hatred that isn't normally present except for extreme times.

I'm not hating on anyone. I respect foreigners just fine. We're discussing their role in America.

[jonathan83]

you have to take into account immigration to america compared to say immigration to China even countries in Europe. Whenever, figuratively speaking, everyone and their mom is trying to come to America you have to put some stop to that.

edit: and its not like the US is tough on citizenship its more like we are just reaching the already set standards that exist everywhere else

very true. it's almost impossible to get a work visa anywhere within the European Union, let alone citizenship. i've tried looking for jobs over there, yet all have the same requirement: "must have EU passport"

[impala454]

kinda funny, the job I just started a few weeks ago, I basically filled an open position left by a guy who got deported back to china.

America 1
China 0

muahahah

[pysex]

people still dont seem to understand how much we depend on illegal workers and the economy makes HUUUUUUUUUUGE amounts of money because of them

i don't understand why people think we're calling for the deportation of all legal and illegal aliens


i'm simply stating that anyone not an american citizen shouldn't be allowed to buy weapons or protest the government...


a good example is all of those illegal immigrants in austin that protested the state capitol about the immigration issue...most of them were arrested and were about to be deported when they sued and won in a federal court...

now they're getting paid a hundred dollars each person


so now we're rewarding illegal immigrants for protesting OUR systems?

THAT'S FUCKED!

[The Fanatic]

.
how many times in the past several months has some wetback motherfucker decided to stab somebody in the clubs? my friend Gabe was killed last year by 2 wetbacks, who were only deported. i was stabbed by a fucking wetback in the arm that only got deported. one of the people that kept kidnapping girls in lubbock was an immigrant also, but america managed to keep ahold of him rather than deport him. those fuckers shouldn't be allowed to recieve ANY benifits. welfare, hud, ANYTHING AT-FUCKING-ALL until they have earned the right to be americans fully. when they are full americans, then they can recieve aid, but they are also fully subjected to our laws and should act accordingly. leeching sons of bitches that take advantage of the system while still flying the mexican flag. fuck them and send those bean eating mother fuckers back to mexico via catapult and erect the god damn Great Wall of Texas already!

How many times in the past has some redneck mother fucker decided to stab someone at the club?

[pysex]

How many times in the past has some redneck mother fucker decided to stab someone at the club?

No No Spivey. Redneck mother fuckers take them down into their basements and make them their gimps.

[The Fanatic]

This tradgedy should not be made into a racial and/or immigration question. That is really all I am saying.

[Psykopath]

it's not taking away anything that they shouldn't have had the right for anyway. you should have to earn that crap. non-citizens should't recieve the benifits of the constitution, the rights they portray, until they are fully subjugated to the laws that also defend those rights. meaning they have to be full u.s. citizens.
how many times in the past several months has some wetback motherfucker decided to stab somebody in the clubs? my friend Gabe was killed last year by 2 wetbacks, who were only deported. i was stabbed by a fucking wetback in the arm that only got deported. one of the people that kept kidnapping girls in lubbock was an immigrant also, but america managed to keep ahold of him rather than deport him. those fuckers shouldn't be allowed to recieve ANY benifits. welfare, hud, ANYTHING AT-FUCKING-ALL until they have earned the right to be americans fully. when they are full americans, then they can recieve aid, but they are also fully subjected to our laws and should act accordingly. leeching sons of bitches that take advantage of the system while still flying the mexican flag. fuck them and send those bean eating mother fuckers back to mexico via catapult and erect the god damn Great Wall of Texas already!

Yes, Brandon...because only illegal Mexican immigrants do such things.

[False Dude]

It is a lot harder to gain citizenship anywhere else in the world. Is that not clicking? My parents were immigrants yes it was a lot easier in the 80s but i mean... come on. everything past the first page in this thread is ridiculous

and please, please, stop calling the kid mentally ill.

- testm0

[FORSAKENR320]

Yes, Brandon...because only illegal Mexican immigrants do such things.

that was my point, spivey was implying that immigrants don't contribute much to the crime rate, when i greatly disagree. everyone does it, but those bastards shouldn't be here in the first place to have committed the crime.

[chook]

You could always get married and wait three years.

[False Dude]

i dont see how a foreigner can complain about the citizenship process in america. i think its just being ignorant.
my mom is a legal alien without citizenship and i dont believe she can vote in anything (this was being discussed earlier)

[GOB]

or have a baby, because not only will you be able to stay here, you'll get free health care, too!

[koreanp1e]

I will say this one last time:
- You cannot blame on Resident Alien for this tragic event by not allowing them to own a gun. Allowing resident to own a gun has nothing to do with this crime and won't prevent this types of event from occurring.

- If you choose to do so, you should also ask for ban of second amendment since more mass killing crimes been committed by US Citizens.

I see this "don't allow resident alien to own a gun" propaganda as a serious threat, and discrimination against foreign nationals. This gesture has very sickening underlying motivation and totally irrelevant to what has happened.

I am very disgusted by your individual opinions on this thread, and this is my final response to this ridiculous issue.

[False Dude]

this has nothing to do with what happened directly. thats why it was split into a different thread
and im pretty sure if it was an american citizen who did this in another country similar discussions would happen

[Psykopath]

Why should a non-citizen be allowed to get the full rights of a citizen right off the bat, koreanp1e?

[John6.7]

Why should a non-citizen be allowed to get the full rights of a citizen right off the bat, koreanp1e?

wow, just wow

[Psykopath]

wow, just wow

Example:
So a person from Russia comes over to America for a 6 month vacation/school term/etc.

That person should be able to vote in an election here in the US?

[koreanp1e]

omfg. A RESIDENT ALIEN. NOT A TOURIST. NUFF SAID.

[Aaron]

I don't think it is unreasonable at all to deny certain people, including non-citizens the ability to purchase a firearm in the United States. It's not like we let just anyone (close, though) buy a guy; citizens that have been convicted of a felony can't purchase one.

[Aaron]

I just read the first few pages of this thread and have more to add.

The fact that resident aliens pay taxes does not give them carte blance to the United States Bill of Right. Sounds harsh, right? Let me explain.

Taxes pay for services, not rights, provided by the government. Taxes pay for roads, law enforcement, hospitals, public education, firefighters, national defense, international humanitarian aid and the like. Resident aliens get their money's worth when paying taxes, just like citizens of the United States.

The idea that simply paying taxes gives someone the right to buy a semi-automatic 9mm handgun is absolutely ludicrous.

Yet, resident aliens enjoy pretty much the same rights as a United States citizen. They have the right to free speech, they have the right to a fair and speedy trial, they have the right to practice a religion of their choice, they have the right to be judged by a jury of their peers, etc.

This has nothing to do with race, and throwing that card out there in this argument is pretty weak.

[Psykopath]

omfg. A RESIDENT ALIEN. NOT A TOURIST. NUFF SAID.

hehe, I really enjoy just being an ass in this thread and pissing certain people off.

I agree with Aaron on this one.

[John6.7]

Example:
So a person from Russia comes over to America for a 6 month vacation/school term/etc.

That person should be able to vote in an election here in the US?

No, Only citizens can vote. I'm really hoping you knew that.

The only thing that would change if i became a citizen would be: jury duty and voting

[Psykopath]

No, Only citizens can vote. I'm really hoping you knew that.

OMG NO WAI I DIDN'T KNOW THAT

NO SIREE BOB

SURE DIDN'T

NOPE

hehe, I really enjoy just being an ass in this thread and pissing certain people off.

quoted for emphasis.

If you are a full on citizen, then you get all of the rights afforded to citizens.
"Depending on the country, permanent residents usually have the same rights as citizens except for:

* the right to vote (some countries allow this)
* the right to stand for public office
* the right to apply for public sector employment (some countries allow this)
* the right to apply for employment involving national security
* the right to hold the passport of that country
* the right to access the country's consular protection (some countries allow this)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_resident

Like I stated in another thread: I believe in having a license system for anyone to purchase guns and ammo. Citizens meeting the requirements could get said license. This isn't a point of racism. It is a matter of legal status within a State. Those trying to turn this into a "U.S. IS RACIST!@#!@" need to step back and look at this logically.

[John6.7]

Well then, if you did know that then your example of the Russia coming over here makes no sense.

[Divergent Realit...]

haha.

cant even keep a conversation going without posting with the purpose of stoking the flames.

[pysex]

[The Fanatic]

awww, kitties!

[Psykopath]

Well then, if you did know that then your example of the Russia coming over here makes no sense.

exactly.

Can't seem to fathom the idea of random posts with no meaning? Cool.

[John6.7]

exactly.

Can't seem to fathom the idea of random posts with no meaning? Cool.

No, Just sometimes I just can't tell if people here are trying to be funny or are just fucking retarded... and sometimes it's both.

[FORSAKENR320]

I will say this one last time:
- You cannot blame on Resident Alien for this tragic event by not allowing them to own a gun. Allowing resident to own a gun has nothing to do with this crime and won't prevent this types of event from occurring.

- If you choose to do so, you should also ask for ban of second amendment since more mass killing crimes been committed by US Citizens.

I see this "don't allow resident alien to own a gun" propaganda as a serious threat, and discrimination against foreign nationals. This gesture has very sickening underlying motivation and totally irrelevant to what has happened.

I am very disgusted by your individual opinions on this thread, and this is my final response to this ridiculous issue.

sorry... as valid as your entire arguement is, i still cannot take you seriously because your broken english is too damn funny sounding

[GOB]

speak english or be fired

[Hartmann]

On gun control: http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

[jonathan83]

I will say this one last time:
- You cannot blame on Resident Alien for this tragic event by not allowing them to own a gun. Allowing resident to own a gun has nothing to do with this crime and won't prevent this types of event from occurring.

- If you choose to do so, you should also ask for ban of second amendment since more mass killing crimes been committed by US Citizens.

I see this "don't allow resident alien to own a gun" propaganda as a serious threat, and discrimination against foreign nationals. This gesture has very sickening underlying motivation and totally irrelevant to what has happened.

I am very disgusted by your individual opinions on this thread, and this is my final response to this ridiculous issue.

can i get a gun in korea? no.
i can't even get a cell phone plan in korea.

i'm sorry, i like korea, but its a lot more racist and nationalistic than america. and very difficult for foreigners.

[Divergent Realit...]

they get jobs that are off the books, therefore don't pay taxes.

think about that one for a minute.

how many people do you know that have jobs off the books?

Why should a non-citizen be allowed to get the full rights of a citizen right off the bat, koreanp1e?

common courtsey, the benefit of the doubt that they are a good person, and the fact that they are still a human.

if theres rights were restricted what would keep me from writing a monthly 'ese' and rounding up all the illegals i can find to give them a tattoo of the word spik on their foreheads?

[Psykopath]

common courtsey, the benefit of the doubt that they are a good person, and the fact that they are still a human.

Common courtesy?!
Then why do many other nations have restrictions on the rights of non-citizens as well? Guess they don't want to be courteous to others? I believe that certain inalienable rights should most certainly be guaranteed to all.
But the right to such things as voting, holding office, and owning dangerous weapons should be restricted to law-abiding and competent citizens.