Another atheism thread Options

[Spectatrix]

The Blasphemy Challenge

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Dec 15 2006, 05:37 PM

[impala454]

ho hum... more losers w/too much time on their hands using a popular idea to make money...

and idiots who take one liners from the bible out of context...

[Jim]

ho hum... more losers w/too much time on their hands using a popular idea to make money...

and idiots who take one liners from the bible out of context...

I can't see how these are being taken out of context.

'Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin' (Mark 3:28-29)



'And every one who speaks a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven' (Luke 12:10)

Sounds pretty straight forward.


What may be considered "blaspheming the holy spirit" is debatable. These passages, however, really aren't.

[impala454]

yeah... in context means add one more verse... don't strain yourself reading too much (like the guy in the video apparently didn't)

[Jim]

yeah... in context means add one more verse... don't strain yourself reading too much (like the guy in the video apparently didn't)

30He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."

You mean that? Or

8"I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. 9But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. 10And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

11"When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, 12for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say."?

Sorry, not seeing it. Adding the verses from around it doesn't add or subtract from what those verses are saying.

I'm not straining here. OMG people take things literally from the bibble it are wrong because it make xtians look stoopid

Try harder.

[impala454]

sweet! more one liners & christian bashing... i'm really shocked that a thread about religion ended up like this

[Spectatrix]

All of Mark, Chapter 3:

1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.

2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.

4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

7 But Jesus withdrew himself with his disciples to the sea: and a great multitude from Galilee followed him, and from Judaea,

8 And from Jerusalem, and from Idumaea, and from beyond Jordan; and they about Tyre and Sidon, a great multitude, when they had heard what great things he did, came unto him.

9 And he spake to his disciples, that a small ship should wait on him because of the multitude, lest they should throng him.

10 For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.

11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

12 And he straitly charged them that they should not make him known.

13 And he goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto him whom he would: and they came unto him.

14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

16 And Simon he surnamed Peter;

17 And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:

18 And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite,

19 And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him: and they went into an house.

20 And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread.

21 And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.

22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.

32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.

33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?

34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

[impala454]

You mean that? Or
Sorry, not seeing it. Adding the verses from around it doesn't add or subtract from what those verses are saying.

I'm not straining here. OMG people take things literally from the bibble it are wrong because it make xtians look stoopid

Try harder.

oh cool now call me them "xtians".

is this how you studied in college? read a sentence or two, then read a few above & below?

honestly.. i'm beginning to think you guy's definition of atheism = anti christian

[Jim]

sweet! more one liners & christian bashing... i'm really shocked that a thread about religion ended up like this

That's right. Instead of trying to pull up a valid point you just say, "Oh, it always is like this". I don't think I pulled out any one-liners of the Bible. The short little quote was Mark 3:30 (which was unnecessary apparently. Christine posted the ENTIRE chapter). The context of what was said is there. If you take away every single verse other than the ones focused on (about Blaspheming the Holy Spirit), the point is still gotten across. The meaning isn't changed.

[Jim]

And if you got butt hurt over xtian, then damn, sucks to be you. I was making a point on how stupid some people can be when their views are put into question. Do you want people to take those verses in context of what's around it? The entire chapter? The entire book? The whole Bible? What?

[Spectatrix]

honestly.. i'm beginning to think you guy's definition of atheism = anti christian

Atheism = anti-Christian? Well not on my end. Yes, this bit I posted *happens* to be both atheist and anti-Christian, but I actually have more issues with pagans (Wiccans, specifically) than with Christians.

But Billy is being an asshat about it. *shrugs*

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Dec 16 2006, 12:38 AM

[impala454]

That's right. Instead of trying to pull up a valid point you just say, "Oh, it always is like this". I don't think I pulled out any one-liners of the Bible.

look at the post times jackass, i was responding to renegade

jim, do you honestly believe that you can pick up an ancient book which has been translated into more languages than any other book, read a miniscule part of it and completely understand the original author's intent without studying it any more than the time it takes to start a christian bashing thread?

[Jim]

look at the post times jackass, i was responding to renegade

jim, do you honestly believe that you can pick up an ancient book which has been translated into more languages than any other book, read a miniscule part of it and completely understand the original author's intent without studying it any more than the time it takes to start a christian bashing thread?

Do you mean the Bible that I read nightly when I was younger? Oh, right, I've always been a heathen and never picked up the Bible.


It doesn't take hours to read a book to understand the context of a line or two. You read the chapter, and if necessary, the ones before it and after.


Please, show me, how is this taken out of context?

[Spectatrix]

Context can include not only the text, but also history, culture, etc.

To be fair, a quick Google search reveals that there's a lot of debate over what exactly is meant by this passage. The pseudo-consensus seems to be that blaspheming against the holy spirit means developing such a hardening of the heart against God/Jesus/whomever that you will never seek repentance.

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Dec 16 2006, 12:47 AM

[impala454]

Atheism = anti-Christian? Well not on my end. Yes, this bit I posted *happens* to be both atheist and anti-Christian

how the heck is it atheism at all? i wasn't aware that atheist = someone who simply "blasphemes the holy spirit" (i.e. the video, which was the only thing you posted in your "atheism" thread).

and jim here's a good explanation:
http://www.carm.org/questions/blasphemy.htm

[Spectatrix]

The Blasphemy Challenge is being put on by the Rational Response Squad, an atheistic group.

[Jim]

how the heck is it atheism at all? i wasn't aware that atheist = someone who simply "blasphemes the holy spirit" (i.e. the video, which was the only thing you posted in your "atheism" thread).

and jim here's a good explanation:
http://www.carm.org/questions/blasphemy.htm

That site is biased and is trying to get it's point across.

Here's a URL of a site that is saying something different: http://preacherstudy.com/blasph.html

http://www.answers.org/bible/blasphemy.html Here's an equally different proposal.

http://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html Yet another

Hell, given the "Got Questions" definition, not believing in God could be Blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Irreverant Defiance.


FUCK YOU GOD


I could have Blasphemed the Holy Spirit right there.



Regardless of what the Blasphemy actually is, it is made apparent by Theologians (and I use that term loosely) that the act (no matter what the actual act is) is an unforgivable sin.

[Aaron]

The gay thing about this is that their Blasphemy Challenge is pretty weak. Denying the existance of one non-coporeal, all-knowing Santa Clause-esque being is great but you're still missing out on pissing off a shit-ton of other non-coporeal, all-knowing Easter Bunny-esque entities.

So, let's take this Blasphemy Challenge to its logical extreme:

I deny the existence and/or reject the "divine authority" of Jehovah, Allah, Brahman, the countless dieties of Chinese folk religion, Santa Clause, all of the Pagan shit, the Easter Bunny, all of the indigenous African shit, Vāhigurū, the Tooth Fairy, the Bahá'í diety, the kami dieties of Shinto, Cao Đài Tiên Ông Đại Bồ Tát Ma-ha-tát, Ahura Mazda, Oyasama and Jah.

Fuck them all.

And, to make my newly-improved Blasphemy Challenge even more atheistcore, let's piss off all of their followers too!

For you theists:

You are retarded and are wasting your <insert "holy" day of the week/month/year here>. While you <insert "holy" activity here>, I am having fun sleeping, eating, drinking or playing with myself (sometimes I'm doing two or three of these at a time!). You believe in fantasy because you just can't wrap your head around the fact that you aren't special and things just fucking happen for no reason at all.

Okay, so now not only am I going to hell... but there are several billion people out there that want to quickly facilitate my trip there.

Faaaaaantastic.

[The Fanatic]

you stong atheists make me laugh trying to argue atheism. I really don't give a fuck what religion you are as long as you don't try to dunk me in water or some shit. And don't sing praise songs unless I start singing first, mainly for entertainment purposes. If you are an ass, I will be an ass. live and let live I always say. The bible is full of contradictions, but hell who cares. Let's drink a bottle of wine that used to be water and be merry!

[Rocky]

These faggots are just creating a little group. It makes them no better than the christians that they see as not accepting reality or using logical thinking as they say.



I don't need Youtube or the internet to make my faith based conclusions. I pray for those who do.

[pysex]

i laugh when people who want equality and liberal freedoms have to go out of their way to hate on what other people believe in....

[Billy]

Sorry. I need something for my computer that if I can't pass a breathalyzer test it will prevent from posting on online message boards.

[Guest_Nitch_*]

No! Allied Atheist Alliance! That way it has three A's! That is the logical choice!

[pebkac]

you stong atheists make me laugh trying to argue atheism. I really don't give a fuck what religion you are as long as you don't try to dunk me in water or some shit. And don't sing praise songs unless I start singing first, mainly for entertainment purposes. If you are an ass, I will be an ass. live and let live I always say. The bible is full of contradictions, but hell who cares. Let's drink a bottle of wine that used to be water and be merry!

QFT

[Divergent Realit...]

Sorry. I need something for my computer that if I can't pass a breathalyzer test it will prevent from posting on online message boards.

that wouldnt be all that hard to make.

i know some people who can pull that one off.

want it as a wedding present?

[Trespass]

The one line about being in hell "forever" is also told to be mis-translated. Because i believe it also says Jonah (sp) was in the belly of the whale forever, for a period of (7 days???)

-With "forever" meaning simply a period of time...

Meh, if you take the time to learn hebrew (like my grandfather... er) so you can read a non-translated bible i'll have more respect for you than reading english translated lines.

With all that said, the simple fact of trying to spite a god you don't even believe exists is pretty stupid... why bother? i don't really need to directly denounce santa or the aztec sun god just to not believe. Seems like whiny emos crying... but meh, have fun on youtube pumping your ego or whatever.

For non-believers, they sure do sound like "sheep"

[The Fanatic]

The one line about being in hell "forever" is also told be be mis-translated. Because i believe it also says Jonah (sp) was in the belly of the whale forever, for a period of (7 days???)

-With "forever" meaning simply a period of time...

Meh, if you take the time to learn hebrew (like my grandfather... er) so you can read a non-translated bible i'll have more respect for you than reading english translated lines.

With all that said, the simple fact of trying to spite a god you don't even believe exists is pretty stupid... why bother? i don't really need to directly denounce santa or the aztec sun god just to not believe. Seems like whiny emos crying... but meh, have fun on youtube pumping your ego or whatever.

For non-believers, they sure do sound like "sheep"

actually very true. I do not respect people because of their religion, I respect people based on what they say and do.

[chook]

I don't need Youtube or the internet to make my faith based conclusions. I pray for those who do.

If my faith is attention whore, i would have a trinity. Myspace, Youtube and Facebook. Techsans is more of a saint to me.

[impala454]

yeah i don't care if someone is atheist... but these guys seem to only be refutting christianity... and it's almost like they're making atheism into a kind of "religion" of their own. they "practice" it by spending their time talking about how they don't believe in christianity... just kinda weird if you ask me. it seems like if you're an atheist, you wouldn't really gather with other atheists and discuss your lack of belief in religions...

[FORSAKENR320]

why not? they are confirming their beliefs by discussing what they see is flawed. they practice their beliefs... it's just that its the belief of non-belief

i think i said belief too many times... i lost track of what the word belief ment....

[impala454]

well typically people gather because they're interested in something... not because they're not interested in something else...

[The Fanatic]

why not? they are confirming their beliefs by discussing what they see is flawed. they practice their beliefs... it's just that its the belief of non-belief

i think i said belief too many times... i lost track of what the word belief ment....

that is not the point of atheism. One reason so many atheists dislike christians is because they spread their beliefs. I don't need anyone to confirm what I believe in nor do I feel a need to be validated. I know what I know and that is good enough for me. Christians need to realize that "spreading the gospel" just makes them look like dicks.

[Rocky]

that is not the point of atheism. One reason so many atheists dislike christians is because they spread their beliefs. I don't need anyone to confirm what I believe in nor do I feel a need to be validated. I know what I know and that is good enough for me. Christians need to realize that "spreading the gospel" just makes them look like dicks.

Not possible at all though because Christians believe that :

- Their belief is the absolute truth. This gives them an incredible amount of confidence since the unexplainable is easily answered by their faith.
- Their belief wants them to spread their word.
- They want everybody to go heaven and not suffer hell, and this is an inevitability due to the first thing on my list.


We really only have one choice, we all need to learn to love jesus and respect women !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Fanatic]

May be the case, just furthers my point. Christians are a bunch of dicks

[moebary]

May be the case, just furthers my point. Christians are a bunch of dicks

quoting this for sheer stupidity

[Rocky]

Oh I agree.


I have absolutely no respect for Christianity and personally find it to be disgusting.

But meh, any discussion or debate with a person of that faith always gets locked up where it comes back to their supposed certainty to something is answered by their faith - or the non believer may attempt to make their supposed certainty of something to be based on another faith like science.


we must exterminate the jew !!! THE ONLY ANSWER.

[Divergent Realit...]

Oh I agree.
I have absolutely no respect for Christianity and personally find it to be disgusting.

But meh, any discussion or debate with a person of that faith always gets locked up where it comes back to their supposed certainty to something is answered by their faith - or the non believer may attempt to make their supposed certainty of something to be based on another faith like science.
we must exterminate the jew !!! THE ONLY ANSWER.

what about the women jew?

[chook]

what about the women jew?

braveheart style! and i volunteer for that!

[pysex]

May be the case, just furthers my point. Christians are a bunch of dicks

SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS ARE FUN!

[FORSAKENR320]

well typically people gather because they're interested in something... not because they're not interested in something else...

...


they are obviously interested in bashing religion and christianity. and as a techsans member, you should know that many peoples favorite past time is to gather and slander the name of your fellow neighbor. they do everything we do, except they get a cool name, probably have a treasurer, and pizza parties

SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS ARE FUN!

italians smell

[pysex]

well typically people gather because they're interested in something... not because they're not interested in something else...

not true



i just don't know why atheists get so offended when someone talks about god...like your insides are starting to ignite or something
if you don't believe there's a god you should just laugh at them....there's nothing you have to defend because you don't believe in anything....just smile, nod, and move on
don't make the god warrior angry


trying to disprove there's a god is ridiculously stupid and inflammatory and there's no scientific explanation for the bible and there's no real interpretation
read it like it's ancient advice on how to live your life



and if the rapture comes and we all melt away in incinerating holy fire then we'll know we were wrong....right?

[impala454]

heheh yeah... well i guess what i'm saying is

religion (at least most religions) involve some type of worship, people gather and worship.

what do atheists do?

[Spectatrix]

heheh yeah... well i guess what i'm saying is

religion (at least most religions) involve some type of worship, people gather and worship.

what do atheists do?

Gather around a cozy campfire, burn Christians in effigy, and gossip about the latest advances in science.

[Aaron]

Gather around a cozy campfire, burn Christians in effigy, and gossip about the latest advances in science.

Speaking of, I moved and have not notified the Allied Atheist Alliance of my new address... so I didn't get this week's newsletter. Where are we meeting this week? I think it's my turn to bring snacks so I'm going to make cookies in the shape of Darwin.

LAWLS.

[chook]

Gather around a cozy campfire, burn Christians in effigy, and gossip about the latest advances in science.

Hey quit cutting into Roman activity!

[The Fanatic]

quoting this for sheer stupidity

How so? Don't get me wrong, I know christians that are not dicks. Overall, anyone who tries to preach the gospel to me is on my bad list. How that makes me stupid, I will never know...

[The Fanatic]

SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS ARE FUN!

You should know, spreading those overtly racist videos.... you know what I am talking about





FRIED CHICKEN

[FORSAKENR320]

You should know, spreading those overtly racist videos.... you know what I am talking about


FRIED CHICKEN

that was me

[John6.7]

what do atheists do?

Sleep in on sundays.
Live life the way they want.

[FORSAKENR320]

How so? Don't get me wrong, I know christians that are not dicks. Overall, anyone who tries to preach the gospel to me is on my bad list. How that makes me stupid, I will never know...

i agree with you, because of crap like this


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...&q=internet

[FORSAKENR320]

May be the case, just furthers my point. Christians are a bunch of dicks

and this is the christians reply

[Hartmann]

I think that C.S. Lewis' quote on Atheism is still valid today...

"Atheism turns out to be too simple. If the universe has no meaning, we should have never found out it has no meaning"

[impala454]

Sleep in on sundays.
Live life the way they want.

as they should...

[John6.7]

as they should...

So, you are a person who read the bible on their own and believe and follow it?

[impala454]

So, you are a person who read the bible on their own and believe and follow it?

i don't see what you're getting at... atheism is not a religion, most people treat it that way. they simply don't believe in any religion, and sleep in on sundays. there's nothing for them to gather about and discuss really.

[Jim]

i don't see what you're getting at... atheism is not a religion, most people treat it that way. they simply don't believe in any religion, and sleep in on sundays. there's nothing for them to gather about and discuss really.

What is there to discuss in Christianity?

[John6.7]

i don't see what you're getting at... atheism is not a religion, most people treat it that way. they simply don't believe in any religion, and sleep in on sundays. there's nothing for them to gather about and discuss really.

WTF are you talking about? I asked you a question, just answer it.

Edit: I have assumed you are not an atheist, is that correct?

[impala454]

john, your question didn't make sense with the statement you replied to. but yes I believe the bible and try to follow it.

let me make an analogy since you guys don't seem to understand my point. let's say some people enjoy bird watching. they enjoy it enough to start online forums, have their own bird watching clubs, etc. i don't particularly care for bird watching, but you don't see me making up a name for people who don't like bird watching. you don't see me desperately trying to convince the bird watchers that bird watching is pointless/stupid. i also haven't started a club for those who aren't interested in bird watching. you know why? because we wouldn't have a f'n thing to talk about (unless we wanted to be assholes and just make fun of the bird watchers).

[Rocky]

Ol Charles you are missing it entirely. It's not that cut and dry.


Fellowship is a huge part of christians and their meetings at church. They may want to spend time with likeminded people, do activities with eachother. A level of comfort with spending your time with people who have something significant to you, in common.

Obviously a huge part of christian church service is direct worship.


So the question exists - what are there for atheists to do in a gathering ? Perhaps they could :
- talk about if they were ever religious to begin with and what changed their minds
- discussions over various religions (and not necessarily just to shit on them)
- discuss political and social events that they may feel are for or against them.
- and yeah, who knows, maybe they could discuss on how right they are for not picking christianity - but isn't the opposite what Christians do ? It's all in how you view it.


And you may wonder why atheism usually "attacks" christianity the biggest. We are in America, and there is no more prominent religion at all. Especially in the south ! It wasn't until I moved to Austin did I finally feel like I wasn't living in a community that looked down on me for not praising jesus.

Fun note - I live maybe 50 yards from what could be the largest church-o-plex i've ever seen in my life.

[impala454]

it just seems to me that if you don't believe in something you'd have no reason to sit around discussing why you don't believe in it. these guys that do discuss it... almost seem like they're questioning their lack of a religion.

the people i know who really have no belief whatsoever in any religion, don't ever talk about it

[John6.7]

john, your question didn't make sense with the statement you replied to. but yes I believe the bible and try to follow it.

I quoted something you said cause I was asking you... not that hard to understand.

let me make an analogy since you guys don't seem to understand my point. let's say some people enjoy bird watching. they enjoy it enough to start online forums, have their own bird watching clubs, etc. i don't particularly care for bird watching, but you don't see me making up a name for people who don't like bird watching. you don't see me desperately trying to convince the bird watchers that bird watching is pointless/stupid. i also haven't started a club for those who aren't interested in bird watching. you know why? because we wouldn't have a f'n thing to talk about (unless we wanted to be assholes and just make fun of the bird watchers).

Bird watchers have never relentlessly tried to turn people into a bird watcher. I don't thing a part of being a birdwatcher is going out and making other people into bird watchers, so there is no need for the anti-birdwatching people. The birdwatchers never bother anyone.

[John6.7]

it just seems to me that if you don't believe in something you'd have no reason to sit around discussing why you don't believe in it. these guys that do discuss it... almost seem like they're questioning their lack of a religion.

the people i know who really have no belief whatsoever in any religion, don't ever talk about it

Why not talk about it? You talk to other people to confirm your faith... Atheists do the same thing.

[FORSAKENR320]

if people didn't get together and discuss what they didn't believe in, nothing would change. so your attitude of "if you don't like it, then sit down and shut the fuck up" is a bit anti american, you terrorist



WHITE POWER

[Billy]

Spirituality is a beautiful thing, but religion is not. Spirituality is a personal conquest to understand yourself, and make yourself better than you are. Religion has done little more than oppress people for trying to find the real truth. Jesus is not the truth. Muhammad is not either. Both of these characters are likely fictional. However, in the past saying such would get you killed (still will in the middle east).

And though right now, the United States and Europe are going through a kind of Renaissance, where free thought is allowed without persecution from Religion, this, through war and depression, may not always last however. And what happens when religion controls again? Well, what happened in the past? Burning of witches. Torture of heretics. Arresting of scientists/astronomers like Galileo for discovering a truth that blantly makes the bible wrong (Interesting time line, religion slowed scientific progress by 250 years)

We can not afford to ever revert back to such primitive and superstitous ways. Though education has made great strides in defeating religion, in times of fear, that may not be enough. They prey on our children, filling them with lies when they are very impressionable and gulliable. Like a disease, religion programs these poor fools to serve and spread. Bringing power to their religious leaders and slowing our advancement.

And that is one reason why atheists meet. To figure out how to cure the world. To discuss how to make people, who are stubborn followers, see the truth. Because logic does not work. I do not know if it is a lack of intelligence, or if humanity really is that weak as children that they can doublethink as adults when tainted by these predators.

Example. Here are three statements:

1)Jesus is God
2)The Bible is perfect and true
3)The Bible says "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matthew 24:36; recent versions of the Bible have had "nor the Son" removed)

NOT ALL OF THESE STATEMENTS CAN BE TRUE FOLKS. But that is not enough. You counter with "oh it's just a one liner taken out of context". And yet, what context is it taken out of? You cannot even explain it. Because, you don't want to. You don't want to accept it. In doing so requires you admit you were wrong. All these years, wrong. And that seems to be man's greatest challenge.

[impala454]

I quoted something you said cause I was asking you... not that hard to understand.
Bird watchers have never relentlessly tried to turn people into a bird watcher.

yeah.. and i'm sure religious people have "relentlessly" tried to convert you... and please, spare me the crybaby story about how the mormans came to your house.

here's what I want you guys to admit: atheism = anti-christianity. IMHO atheism shouldn't be called anything. it's one of those times where the people who don't believe in anything felt left out, so they made up a word so they could group themselves. tell me, if you truly are an atheist, why not just mark "none" next to religion rather than "atheism"? imo these groups of atheists who sit around and do nothing but try to denounce christianity must be wrestling with their non-belief so hard that they feel that attacking christianity will purge their true beliefs. the people who really believe there's no gods or supreme beings don't sit around and talk about it, and don't call themselves atheists. they simply live life without believing any of the stuff. "atheists" seem to feel the need to be anti-religion, not simply be a non-believer.

and yeah rocky was right, of course christianity is by far the most practiced religion in the US, so that explains why atheists seems to concentrate their attacks on it, but it doesn't explain why they feel the need to attack it in the first place.

[pysex]

I think everyone needs to accept the fact that atheists will always be in the minority. People need ways to explain their existence. God is the popular one of many.



Now accept the fact that your views will never be fully welcomed in society because you can't destroy or deny something so ancient and ingrained as God.


And accept the fact that hardcore Christians will always try to impose their beliefs on others because the doctrine tells them to.



Some Christians piss me off because of how closed minded they are and blinded by words from a book. I don't care how many times you want to tell me the bible is the word of God. It was still written by man.


And most atheists piss me off because they do the exact same thing trying to impose their beliefs on others. If your belief is that there is no God then why must you always be talking about him.

[pysex]

yeah.. and i'm sure religious people have "relentlessly" tried to convert you... and please, spare me the crybaby story about how the mormans came to your house.

here's what I want you guys to admit: atheism = anti-christianity. IMHO atheism shouldn't be called anything. it's one of those times where the people who don't believe in anything felt left out, so they made up a word so they could group themselves. tell me, if you truly are an atheist, why not just mark "none" next to religion rather than "atheism"? imo these groups of atheists who sit around and do nothing but try to denounce christianity must be wrestling with their non-belief so hard that they feel that attacking christianity will purge their true beliefs. the people who really believe there's no gods or supreme beings don't sit around and talk about it, and don't call themselves atheists. they simply live life without believing any of the stuff. "atheists" seem to feel the need to be anti-religion, not simply be a non-believer.

and yeah rocky was right, of course christianity is by far the most practiced religion in the US, so that explains why atheists seems to concentrate their attacks on it, but it doesn't explain why they feel the need to attack it in the first place.

it's not denouncing christianity.....


it's denouncing the existence of a god



so they would be against mainstream religions

[pysex]

p.s. Atheism is still a religion.

[TetraGrammaton C...]

yeah.. and i'm sure religious people have "relentlessly" tried to convert you... and please, spare me the crybaby story about how the mormans came to your house.

here's what I want you guys to admit: atheism = anti-christianity. IMHO atheism shouldn't be called anything. it's one of those times where the people who don't believe in anything felt left out, so they made up a word so they could group themselves. tell me, if you truly are an atheist, why not just mark "none" next to religion rather than "atheism"? imo these groups of atheists who sit around and do nothing but try to denounce christianity must be wrestling with their non-belief so hard that they feel that attacking christianity will purge their true beliefs. the people who really believe there's no gods or supreme beings don't sit around and talk about it, and don't call themselves atheists. they simply live life without believing any of the stuff. "atheists" seem to feel the need to be anti-religion, not simply be a non-believer.

and yeah rocky was right, of course christianity is by far the most practiced religion in the US, so that explains why atheists seems to concentrate their attacks on it, but it doesn't explain why they feel the need to attack it in the first place.

i have been very reluctant to list the monstrous catalog of your inadequacies; for the sake of pity, i will resist its entirety. i believe you have some sort of sociological malfunction, as if several synapses in your brain have been wired incorrectly. i hope you can take this criticism well. i believe all of us are getting impatient with your childish inability to comprehend rational and polite discussion. it is people like you that deter new people from posting here. this criticism has nothing to do with your beliefs on any level, but rather it is stemmed for your genuine ability to pose a rational reasonable response or enact logic on the majority of occasions.

that being said (and you can get mad about it all you want), i will address your comment. please learn to spell "mormon" this is the second time you have spelled it "morman," which reeks of latent freudian homosexuality. (joking)
you lack the fundamental understanding of what atheism is; it has nothing to do with christianity. atheism is the simple belief in no god. "a" (away from) "theism" (belief in God and creation). there are plenty of religions that have gods and this is not against any of them. it is merely a different point of view. yes, there are a few atheists that attack other religious groups, but this has nothing to do with atheists as a group and is a rash generalization. i think you are confusing atheists with people with no philosophical or religious belief; they are, of course, very different.
plenty of atheists discuss their religious beliefs, often this causes christians to become upset, which is why it appears that they are being attacked.
"these groups of atheists who sit around and do nothing but try to denounce christianity" where are these people? the only reason to discuss these things is to mature and understand one another's beliefs. when people disagree, person x will try to rationalize her/his point to person y and vice versa. there is no attempt to convert or criticize but to let both parties know the reason why one another believe something and the philosophical ideas behind that belief.
there are people who attack one another's beliefs, but these are often people who differ in belief and exposure to such a degree that the other's belief seems completely ludicrous to them.

[The Fanatic]

p.s. Atheism is still a religion.

Atheism is not so much a religion as it is a belief system...

i have been very reluctant to list the monstrous catalog of your inadequacies; for the sake of pity, i will resist its entirety. i believe you have some sort of sociological malfunction, as if several synapses in your brain have been wired incorrectly. i hope you can take this criticism well. i believe all of us are getting impatient with your childish inability to comprehend rational and polite discussion. it is people like you that deter new people from posting here. this criticism has nothing to do with your beliefs on any level, but rather it is stemmed for your genuine ability to pose a rational reasonable response or enact logic on the majority of occasions.

that being said (and you can get mad about it all you want), i will address your comment. please learn to spell "mormon" this is the second time you have spelled it "morman," which reeks of latent freudian homosexuality. (joking)
you lack the fundamental understanding of what atheism is; it has nothing to do with christianity. atheism is the simple belief in no god. "a" (away from) "theism" (belief in God and creation). there are plenty of religions that have gods and this is not against any of them. it is merely a different point of view. yes, there are a few atheists that attack other religious groups, but this has nothing to do with atheists as a group and is a rash generalization. i think you are confusing atheists with people with no philosophical or religious belief; they are, of course, very different.
plenty of atheists discuss their religious beliefs, often this causes christians to become upset, which is why it appears that they are being attacked.
"these groups of atheists who sit around and do nothing but try to denounce christianity" where are these people? the only reason to discuss these things is to mature and understand one another's beliefs. when people disagree, person x will try to rationalize her/his point to person y and vice versa. there is no attempt to convert or criticize but to let both parties know the reason why one another believe something and the philosophical ideas behind that belief.
there are people who attack one another's beliefs, but these are often people who differ in belief and exposure to such a degree that the other's belief seems completely ludicrous to them.

good post

[pysex]

Atheism is not so much a religion as it is a belief system...

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

[The Fanatic]

here's what I want you guys to admit: atheism = anti-christianity. IMHO atheism shouldn't be called anything. it's one of those times where the people who don't believe in anything felt left out, so they made up a word so they could group themselves. tell me, if you truly are an atheist, why not just mark "none" next to religion rather than "atheism"? imo these groups of atheists who sit around and do nothing but try to denounce christianity must be wrestling with their non-belief so hard that they feel that attacking christianity will purge their true beliefs. the people who really believe there's no gods or supreme beings don't sit around and talk about it, and don't call themselves atheists. they simply live life without believing any of the stuff. "atheists" seem to feel the need to be anti-religion, not simply be a non-believer.

Atheism is not anti anything. It is simply non belief in gods. Atheist do differ in philosophical, moral, social, etc belief but they are united in not believing in a god. You have obviously had some sort of bad experience with atheists in general.

[impala454]

i have been very reluctant to list the monstrous catalog of your inadequacies; for the sake of pity, i will resist its entirety. i believe you have some sort of sociological malfunction, as if several synapses in your brain have been wired incorrectly. i hope you can take this criticism well. i believe all of us are getting impatient with your childish inability to comprehend rational and polite discussion. it is people like you that deter new people from posting here. this criticism has nothing to do with your beliefs on any level, but rather it is stemmed for your genuine ability to pose a rational reasonable response or enact logic on the majority of occasions.

i did actually lol, thanks. i was going to ignore your post after the first sentence, but i honestly found this part extremely amusing. i can tell when i'm getting through to people by the extremely creative insults i recieve sometimes.

that being said (and you can get mad about it all you want), i will address your comment. please learn to spell "mormon" this is the second time you have spelled it "morman,"

damn it must be my "miswired synapses" lol. i'm surprised you didn't point out the fact that i don't capitalize all my 'i's either (i guess i don't run my posts through a spell/grammar/thesaurus check before i post em).

you lack the fundamental understanding of what atheism is; it has nothing to do with christianity. atheism is the simple belief in no god. "a" (away from) "theism" (belief in God and creation). there are plenty of religions that have gods and this is not against any of them. it is merely a different point of view. yes, there are a few atheists that attack other religious groups, but this has nothing to do with atheists as a group and is a rash generalization. i think you are confusing atheists with people with no philosophical or religious belief; they are, of course, very different.
plenty of atheists discuss their religious beliefs, often this causes christians to become upset, which is why it appears that they are being attacked.
"these groups of atheists who sit around and do nothing but try to denounce christianity" where are these people? the only reason to discuss these things is to mature and understand one another's beliefs. when people disagree, person x will try to rationalize her/his point to person y and vice versa. there is no attempt to convert or criticize but to let both parties know the reason why one another believe something and the philosophical ideas behind that belief.
there are people who attack one another's beliefs, but these are often people who differ in belief and exposure to such a degree that the other's belief seems completely ludicrous to them.

maybe you missed where this discussion began. in this thread, entitled "Another atheism thread" a video by http://www.rationalresponders.com/ was posted. why don't you visit that site and tell me how these people simply have a "lack of belief" rather than attack christianity? when they sell shirts like:


with quotes like

"Do you have the cojones to show the world how sure you are that the Christian God doesn't exist?"
"Walk up to people on the streets exclaiming your joy that you deny the holy spirit, and how good it makes you feel inside!"
and really... for people who don't believe in God, there sure seems to be a lot of bible study... why even bother? like i've said several times in this thread, the people i know who don't believe in God don't even care to do this crap.

i know the f'n definition of atheism. i have no problem with those who don't believe in supreme beings or Gods, why do they have a problem with me believing in it? i'd love for you to find me some atheist group website or something that doesn't have some anti-christianity propaganda on it. or even some groups who claim atheism that show how they're anti-all theist religions, and not just christianity.

[Billy]

i did actually lol, thanks. i was going to ignore your post after the first sentence, but i honestly found this part extremely amusing. i can tell when i'm getting through to people by the extremely creative insults i recieve sometimes.

I really admire your ego. You seem to have deluded yourself into thinking you're "winning". Maybe you didn't read the last part of his post, so I'll quote it:

there are people who attack one another's beliefs, but these are often people who differ in belief and exposure to such a degree that the other's belief seems completely ludicrous to them.

Basically, the insults you are receiving are a far cry from "getting through to people". And to answer your questions, they are all answered in my post above. I do not know why you would ask a question that was already answered.

You are not a good person to debate with. You are not interested in "maturing your beliefs" as stated by Jared, but rather, you are most interested in just being right. You do not care if you believe in the "right thing", you just care about being "right". I do not know if this is due to some insecurity, or maybe in the past you always felt inadequet and so you have some duty to prove yourself...mostly to yourself. But either way, that's a pretty pathetic approach to life.

I do not think you have the intelligence to change your beliefs based on new information. College did not do you justice. I would sue the school if I were you.

[Billy]

i'd love for you to find me some atheist group website or something that doesn't have some anti-christianity propaganda on it. or even some groups who claim atheism that show how they're anti-all theist religions, and not just christianity.

It wasn't hard

He doesn't like muslims either. To find these groups, you mostly have to leave the United States though, JUST LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET THROUGH. YOUR. SKULL. Is it so hard to comprehend the reason why there is animosity towards Christians in the United States is because that is the largest group they receive the most condemnation from?

[cupcake]

trying to discuss religion with techsans.net...not a very well-thought out idea...

[impala454]

It wasn't hard

He doesn't like muslims either. To find these groups, you mostly have to leave the United States though, JUST LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET THROUGH. YOUR. SKULL. Is it so hard to comprehend the reason why there is animosity towards Christians in the United States is because that is the largest group they receive the most condemnation from?

but why must there be any animosity towards christians in order for an atheist to not believe in something? it seems to me that atheist people in the sense of the link in the OP is mostly people who used to be Christian or some other religion, and have some bitterness and feel the need to lash out.

and that link... seems more like a documentary than a website about an atheist organization. the root domain, http://www.atheism.ru, might, but i can't read russian

trying to discuss religion with techsans.net...not a very well-thought out idea...

i whole-heartedly agree. which is why in college we had the "3 sacred subjects" which were forbidden to discuss... religion, politics, & abortion.

[The Fanatic]

but why must there be any animosity towards christians in order for an atheist to not believe in something? it seems to me that atheist people in the sense of the link in the OP is mostly people who used to be Christian or some other religion, and have some bitterness and feel the need to lash out.

That is true for some atheists. You have to remember that the majority of people in america are christians, so it makes sense that most atheists probably grew up in a christian home at one point and may hold some animosity toward the christian faith. There are both strong and weak atheists. Some atheists feel it to be their duty to proove that god does not exist and christians are full of shit. I on the other hand, do not care what you believe in as long as you don't try to convert me...

[The Fanatic]

i whole-heartedly agree. which is why in college we had the "3 sacred subjects" which were forbidden to discuss... religion, politics, & abortion.

What? Part of being in college is to discuss challenging questions like religion, politics and abortion. It helps you to think critically ... well, at least that explains a lot...

[FORSAKENR320]

i think it's funny how it's perfectly ok for christians and other groups to harrass and pester athiests, but when it happens the other way, all hell breaks lose with them. you bug and nag and constantly attack someone elses beliefs, (and no matter what you might try to say otherwise impala, athiesm IS their belief) it's only natural that they are gonna have animosity towards you and lash back

[FORSAKENR320]

trying to discuss religion with techsans.net...not a very well-thought out idea...

reminded me of this


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...fe+vs.+internet

[John6.7]

yeah.. and i'm sure religious people have "relentlessly" tried to convert you... and please, spare me the crybaby story about how the mormans came to your house.

Again... are you that fucking retarded? Why do you assume I am talking about myself? I was talking about thousands of years of war.

People I talk to in person who have different beliefs than me are normally smart enough to hold conversations so we just talk about what we believe and why.

[Seussninja]

You people are hilarious.

I'm a humanist. fukken lol believing in people? Who the hell would've thunk.

[The Fanatic]

fuck humanism


literally

[Divergent Realit...]

Especially in the south ! It wasn't until I moved to Austin did I finally feel like I wasn't living in a community that looked down on me for not praising jesus.

Fun note - I live maybe 50 yards from what could be the largest church-o-plex i've ever seen in my life.

i grew up with this beast in the home town.

the 'jesus is lord over alvin' bumperstickers and billboards

and the occasional slap in the face from the more zealot christians.

[The Fanatic]

i grew up with this beast in the home town.

the 'jesus is lord over alvin' bumperstickers and billboards

and the occasional slap in the face from the more zealot christians.

god damnit (heh) man...

I know how you feel...

I grew up in a town that has the most churches per square mile in the united states. Abilene also has three uber christian universities. Mix that with an air force base and you have a dangerous cocktail of uber conservatism and evangelical bull shit.

[impala454]

I grew up in a town that has the most churches per square mile in the united states. Abilene also has three uber christian universities. Mix that with an air force base and you have a dangerous cocktail of uber conservatism and evangelical bull shit.

and this is dangerous because?

[Jim]

and this is dangerous because?

Way to play innocent You must have a +30 to your Bluff Check.

[Timbo]

http://cyber-knowledge.net/blog/2006/09/11...-to-be-atheist/

Wah wah waaawahwahawhawhha

[The Fanatic]

and this is dangerous because?

It is not dangerous, more like hypocritical

[Mommy]

It is not dangerous, more like hypocritical

hypocritical how?



You know, I grew up in a VERY strict Baptist home and I attended a private baptist school from preschool until I graduated from high school. I dont know where all this animosity that some of you have is coming from. I mean, I dont follow that religion anymore because of a lot of reasons and I argue with my mom over the "future of my soul", but some of you act like you were forced to blow a catholic priest when you were 5. Even then that isnt an excuse. My father had to testify against a priest for sexual assault that he endured when he was 10. Guess what? He doesnt have a hatred towards Christianity. I think the reason that most of you act like this is because its the HIPSTER thing to be an atheist or scoff at Christianity. Lighten up and learn to be more accepting of other people's beliefs.

[woody]

but some of you act like you were forced to blow a catholic priest when you were 5

you said you wouldn't tell anyone!!

[chook]

This board is the self-hate, I-loath-all hatemonger message.




Except Rocky's love to the arayan race!

[Mommy]

you said you wouldn't tell anyone!!

my bad. Its not my fault youre a cocksucker

[FORSAKENR320]

my bad. Its not my fault youre a cocksucker

post pics of you on your myspace with a candle in your ass, plzkthnx

[Mommy]

post pics of you on your myspace with a candle in your ass, plzkthnx

Youre a god damn freak

[FORSAKENR320]

ha

[The Fanatic]

hypocritical how?



You know, I grew up in a VERY strict Baptist home and I attended a private baptist school from preschool until I graduated from high school. I dont know where all this animosity that some of you have is coming from. I mean, I dont follow that religion anymore because of a lot of reasons and I argue with my mom over the "future of my soul", but some of you act like you were forced to blow a catholic priest when you were 5. Even then that isnt an excuse. My father had to testify against a priest for sexual assault that he endured when he was 10. Guess what? He doesnt have a hatred towards Christianity. I think the reason that most of you act like this is because its the HIPSTER thing to be an atheist or scoff at Christianity. Lighten up and learn to be more accepting of other people's beliefs.

I think there may be a misunderstanding. If you actually knew me in person, you would know that I am one of the most accepting and tolerant human beings out there. Sometimes stuff you put on the internet can come off the wrong way. It is hypocritical where I am from because people will go to church, claim they are christians, and claim they despise sin; yet they will go drinking, partying, sinning basically. Everyone sins that is a given. However, there is no need to denounce activities like drinking if members of your own church knowingly engage in them. Let's face it, jesus turned water into wine. I don't hate chritianity or christians. Some of my best friends are christians, and I would have them no other way because that is what makes them who they are. I am not out to change them as long as they are not out to change me. I do enjoy having religious discussions with them, but I never actively push my beliefs on others. Athiesm should not be used to force its ideas on to other human beings just because we do not believe that there is a god out there. I did not mean to come off as intolerant if you took it that way...

[Mommy]

I think there may be a misunderstanding. If you actually knew me in person, you would know that I am one of the most accepting and tolerant human beings out there. Sometimes stuff you put on the internet can come off the wrong way. It is hypocritical where I am from because people will go to church, claim they are christians, and claim they despise sin; yet they will go drinking, partying, sinning basically. Everyone sins that is a given. However, there is no need to denounce activities like drinking if members of your own church knowingly engage in them. Let's face it, jesus turned water into wine. I don't hate chritianity or christians. Some of my best friends are christians, and I would have them no other way because that is what makes them who they are. I am not out to change them as long as they are not out to change me. I do enjoy having religious discussions with them, but I never actively push my beliefs on others. Athiesm should not be used to force its ideas on to other human beings just because we do not believe that there is a god out there. I did not mean to come off as intolerant if you took it that way...

Modern Christianity isnt very accepting of drinking because people do not acknowledge their limits, much less stay within them. Any church will tell you that they do not forbid a glass or two of wine....they forbid drunkeness which Christ forbid also. I think there are several misunderstandings about christianity, and this has always been one that bothers me.

That being said, yes there are a lot of your "Sunday Christians"...another words ones that only act holy when they are in church. They have given in to worldly pleasures. I dont see anything wrong with them going out and partying....partying is not a sin. Drinking is not a sin. Acting ridiculously drunk and slutty in front of a bunch of people is a sin. I think that churches preasure young teens too much with rules that really are more strict than they are supposed to be. Churches feel that the best way to not get drunk and stupid is to avoid alcohol all together. Sure. thats cool, but that doesnt mean that a few drinks every now and then makes the Christian any less holy. They are simply having a little fun.

[The Fanatic]

Modern Christianity isnt very accepting of drinking because people do not acknowledge their limits, much less stay within them. Any church will tell you that they do not forbid a glass or two of wine....they forbid drunkeness which Christ forbid also. I think there are several misunderstandings about christianity, and this has always been one that bothers me.

That being said, yes there are a lot of your "Sunday Christians"...another words ones that only act holy when they are in church. They have given in to worldly pleasures. I dont see anything wrong with them going out and partying....partying is not a sin. Drinking is not a sin. Acting ridiculously drunk and slutty in front of a bunch of people is a sin. I think that churches preasure young teens too much with rules that really are more strict than they are supposed to be. Churches feel that the best way to not get drunk and stupid is to avoid alcohol all together. Sure. thats cool, but that doesnt mean that a few drinks every now and then makes the Christian any less holy. They are simply having a little fun.

I agree, nothing wrong with christian people having responsible fun.