The Liberty Amendment Options

[Timbo]

http://libertyamendment.org/

What excites me the most is the bit about Ron Paul's legislation.

[impala454]

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.

abolish income tax? how exactly are you going to make up the missing 2.2 trillion?

and what business does the govt engage in that's in competition with its citizens?

[Timbo]

You're very silly.

The tax garnished from income is used *solely* to pay interest on the national debt. Everything else, from schools, to bus systems, to the USPS are paid for through other taxes (property tax, sales tax, homeowner's tax, whatever). I dunno about you, but to have a government that spends and spends and keeps spending, I don't particularly care to give them my money and support-nor do I wish to advocate their actions-so they can pay down the very debt they're racking up.

The Income Tax is also unconstitutional, according to that recent documentary, America Freedom to Fascism. And the Supreme Court. 8 Times. No answers, no taxes. But, y'know, whatever.

To replace the $2.2T (first, where'd you get your number?)? Easy, I'm in huge favor of a national sales tax and/or a national flat tax. This will save huge amounts of money for the average working american and because of that, it is the sort of tax I support for the government. I'd be ok with it partially because they'd be receiving less tax money to cover their spending.

AVAST YE HALFLING-FAGGOT NAYSAYERS, BEGIN YOUR DIAPER-POOP RANTINGS

[Seeker]

abolish income tax? how exactly are you going to make up the missing 2.2 trillion?

Cut down on useless government programs, government spending, and government waste?

[impala454]

timbo, if you replaced the current income tax system with a flat tax or national sales tax, you still cut the govt budget by an insane amount, as well as completely screw over the poorest people & middle class. i'm not sure if you realize how income tax currently works, as the more money you make, the larger the % the govt takes.

i got the 2.2 trillion number from some shitty website... forgot where. not sure if it's accurate but it seems consistent with our GDP of ~13 trillion.

[pebkac]

AVAST YE HALFLING-FAGGOT NAYSAYERS, BEGIN YOUR DIAPER-POOP RANTINGS

Y'know... the word faggot in and of itself doesn't really bother me, but is it really necessary for you to use it to insult people who disagree with you?

[theIncredibleEdi...]

i'm not sure if you realize how income tax currently works, as the more money you make, the larger the % the govt takes.

Isn't there some kinda cap on that? Doesnt that percentage plateau at some point and those people making millions actually save some money? Or am I mistaken?

[Billy]

I support a national sales tax. It is a fair tax as those who consume the most, pay the most in tax. And at the rate people like J Lo spend, I really think something like a 30% sales tax on everything from houses, to cars, to fast food, would actually bring in more money for the government while saving money for the working middle class.*

I would also be in favor of a 100% death tax on cash asset only. That is, property and investments can go to the kids, but everything else goes back to the government. This way, it forces those who do horde cash to invest and keep the economy going, instead of collapsing as people spend less due to higher sales tax and everyone just becoming savers. As saving does you no good.

*this is assuming all other taxes are abolished.

[Throwdown]

Cut down on useless government programs, government spending, and government waste?

no shit

we're held accountable for our finances and our actions, so why can't we hold the government accountable for theirs?

[Throwdown]

Y'know... the word faggot in and of itself doesn't really bother me, but is it really necessary for you to use it to insult people who disagree with you?

oh my god, don't be a whiny little bitch

[impala454]

Isn't there some kinda cap on that? Doesnt that percentage plateau at some point and those people making millions actually save some money? Or am I mistaken?

here's the tax bracket breakdown for 06 for single people:
10% $0 -- $7,550
15% $7,551 -- $30,650
25% $30,651 -- $74,200
28% $74,201 -- $154,800
33% $154,801 -- $336,550
35% $336,551+

basically the way it works right now, the richest people pay the most in taxes by far. they don't ever really "save" money since it's a percentage, they simply take home a smaller percentage of what they make.

[Throwdown]

if anything, the billionaire business visionaries should get a tax break.

they're the ones pumping 48 thousand new jobs into the economy

[impala454]

I support a national sales tax. It is a fair tax as those who consume the most, pay the most in tax.

imho this would destroy the economy. consumer sales would drop like a rock. i also don't see the correlation between buying sales taxable items and paying the governments budget. i.e. why should i have to pay more of the bill for a highway to be built simply because i bought a $2500 TV and you bought a $200 TV?

I would also be in favor of a 100% death tax on cash asset only. That is, property and investments can go to the kids, but everything else goes back to the government.

wow hell no... so if your parents have $100,000 when they die you're cool if the government just swipes it? F that.

[Billy]

imho this would destroy the economy. consumer sales would drop like a rock. i also don't see the correlation between buying sales taxable items and paying the governments budget. i.e. why should i have to pay more of the bill for a highway to be built simply because i bought a $2500 TV and you bought a $200 TV?
wow hell no... so if your parents have $100,000 when they die you're cool if the government just swipes it? F that.

Yes, that's right. This stops dyanastitic wealth. It's ridiculous. It won't completely stop it, as you still inhereit real non-cash assets (which for the rich tend to be more than the cash they own anyway). It's just a safeguard against your first point, about crashing the economy. It won't crash the economy. So I do not know why you even tried to make that point when I preemptively nullified it.

Anyone not making over several hundred a year should be for this tax system. And anyone who is does not live ridiculously lavishly should be for this system. The middle class do not make up the biggest spenders, yet they have to pay the most of our government. That is not a fair system.

[Billy]

here's the tax bracket breakdown for 06 for single people:
10% $0 -- $7,550
15% $7,551 -- $30,650
25% $30,651 -- $74,200
28% $74,201 -- $154,800
33% $154,801 -- $336,550
35% $336,551+

basically the way it works right now, the richest people pay the most in taxes by far. they don't ever really "save" money since it's a percentage, they simply take home a smaller percentage of what they make.

The rich pay the least in taxes. Literally. Talk to some accounting professors if you don't believe me. It is very likely you pay more taxes than those making several million a year.

[impala454]

Yes, that's right. This stops dyanastitic wealth. It's ridiculous. It won't completely stop it, as you still inhereit real non-cash assets (which for the rich tend to be more than the cash they own anyway). It's just a safeguard against your first point, about crashing the economy. It won't crash the economy. So I do not know why you even tried to make that point when I preemptively nullified it.

Anyone not making over several hundred a year should be for this tax system. And anyone who is does not live ridiculously lavishly should be for this system. The middle class do not make up the biggest spenders, yet they have to pay the most of our government. That is not a fair system.

i.e. communism

[impala454]

The rich pay the least in taxes. Literally. Talk to some accounting professors if you don't believe me. It is very likely you pay more taxes than those making several million a year.

how the hell do you figure this?

if i make $55,000, my tax comes out to: $10,308, which is roughly 18.75% of my total income

if i make $750,000, my tax comes out to: $238,138, which is roughly 31.75% of my total income

[Billy]

how the hell do you figure this?

if i make $55,000, my tax comes out to: $10,308, which is roughly 18.75% of my total income

if i make $750,000, my tax comes out to: $238,138, which is roughly 31.75% of my total income

It's called tax write offs. The wealthy write everything off, from private jet and then the depretiation for that jet, to vacation to Australia (for business of course and then later they conveniently visit friends and family), donations to charities (often times their own charities). And so instead of actually paying taxes, they get to accumalate all these assets that they can use for both business and personal use. And it is not a fair system. But because the wealthy tend to control the laws, it is no surprise they make these tax laws for their benefit. I highly recommend taking a tax accounting class to educate yourself on how unfair the current system really is.

Under a national sales tax, there would be no more "deductables" or loopholes. What you consume is all you have to pay in tax. There wouldn't be tax forms to fill out. You could actually own your home without having to pay tax on it. Everything you earn, you get to keep. On top of that, the economy may be easily regulated. In times of high inflation, tax may be increased. In times of recession, tax be decreased. The federal reserve won't be the only thing that can control the economy.

[impala454]

It's called tax write offs. The wealthy write everything off, from private jet and then the depretiation for that jet, to vacation to Australia (for business of course and then later they conveniently visit friends and family), donations to charities (often times their own charities). And so instead of actually paying taxes, they get to accumalate all these assets that they can use for both business and personal use. And it is not a fair system. But because the wealthy tend to control the laws, it is no surprise they make these tax laws for their benefit. I highly recommend taking a tax accounting class to educate yourself on how unfair the current system really is.

so... are write offs only allowed to a certain tax bracket? no. i can write shit off too... your argument makes no sense. i would highly recommend not taking the democrat propoganda at their word.

Under a national sales tax, there would be no more "deductables" or loopholes. What you consume is all you have to pay in tax.

exactly, so as people don't want to pay tax and have no incentives to purchase big ticket items, they drastically lower what they consume, wrecking the economy.

There wouldn't be tax forms to fill out. You could actually own your home without having to pay tax on it.

the local property taxes on my home are almost negligible. in fact the deductions i'll be able to make will negate it this year.

Everything you earn, you get to keep.

how's that? when you have to pay 30% more for everything you buy?

On top of that, the economy may be easily regulated. In times of high inflation, tax may be increased. In times of recession, tax be decreased. The federal reserve won't be the only thing that can control the economy.

how do you figure? who's going to increase & decrease the sales tax? oh yeah, the government... out of the frying pan into the fryer.

[Billy]

Impala, you are arguing against something that would highly benefit you (the middle class). You are a fool to not support it.

And no, you can't make the same write offs unless you are wealthy, as you do not have the capital nor do you own a business. Impala, this world is bigger than yourself. Just because you pay low property tax (in shit lubbock), doesn't mean those who used to have homes in the mountain resorts (before they were resort) didn't all lose their homes as they could no longer afford the tax on the new appraisal for their property values.

[FORSAKENR320]

fuck you and your death tax.


why work hard to earn that extra money and be above others if the government is just gonna take it away from your kids.

fucking communist.

[Billy]

fuck you and your death tax.
why work hard to earn that extra money and be above others if the government is just gonna take it away from your kids.

fucking communist.

You could invest it. And then your kids still get the rewards. Where's the problem? The point of the death tax is to force savers into investing into the economy. This allows people who want to start business to make jobs for people able to find cash more readily available (loans, issuing bonds,selling stock). At your death, instead of cash, they receieve the normal property, etc, and your investment, which they can turn around and sell if they wish.

Most people do this anyway. This isn't communism. Maybe you should read up on it. But then again, with your short sightedness and total ignorance, I expected such a post from you.

(btw, there is already a death tax, but it's on everything, around 50% of your total assets if didn't know that. This system actually forces people to pay LESS than they already do on the death tax, as most people tend to accumulate more value in assets than ever hold in cash. All I want is a system where what I earn belongs to me, and what I own always belongs to me.)

[FORSAKENR320]

You could invest it. And then your kids still get the rewards. Where's the problem? The point of the death tax is to force savers into investing into the economy. This allows people who want to start business to make jobs for people able to find cash more readily available (loans, issuing bonds,selling stock). At your death, instead of cash, they receieve the normal property, etc, and your investment, which they can turn around and sell if they wish.

Most people do this anyway. This isn't communism. Maybe you should read up on it. But then again, with your short sightedness and total ignorance, I expected such a post from you.

i don't feel comfortable being "forced" to put my money anywhere. if i want to store it in a tin can in my back yard and sit on it because i'm paranoid i will do so. this tax will promote feelings counterproductive to capitalism. "why work hard when i am not going to get anything extra anyway" and breed further financial resentment against the goverment even further than it already is. force people into searching for every single little loophole to get away with crap and it will tear the entire system apart. but i don't expect you to understand anything about the impact on society it would cause. you don't deal well with people in the first place.


there is a big difference in between taking little bites here and there, and then kicking the bees nest that is america and slamming them with a open, straight in your face law "when you die, we are invading your home, and leaving your family starving in the cold." and yes, that is an exaggeration on what would happen, but thats what the american people will percieve, and convince themselves of. congrats, you just caused nationwide rioting. and attempted revolution.

you need to understand the statement that laws like that make. yes, we have a death tax, but nothing comes straight out and says "we are taking everything"


you do NOT threaten ones family, and thats what that death tax does in the eyes of americans. take your communist views elsewhere, cock-pocket

[pebkac]

oh my god, don't be a whiny little bitch

Sorry, but considering you never met me before, you don't really have a right to call me a whiny little bitch.

[GOB]

who cares if your kids get anything? they didn't work for it

[The Fanatic]

I am all for reforming the tax code, but I do not support a national sales tax. I think it would really hurt the people who can barely pay taxes as it is. A national sales tax HURTS people who do not make very much money. I think we should just tax the hell out of the rich...

[woody]

wouldn't it be easier just to have jews control the tax system.

[Trespass]

I dont like the death tax AT ALL because the money goes back to the government, the most wasteful and useless financial institution there is. People work hard their entire lives so they can better their own lives' and better their children's. If a governmentment arbitrarily takes cash from people it will hurt the middle class and poor, and not affect the rich at all. (Since the rich can afford to put all cash into investments [and usually already do], and the middle class are most likely to have their money in a bank account paying off bills.) And if you take the death tax before or after the funeral costs your still fucking the families... As brandon said, goes against capitalism.

Oh, and as for tax breaks i'd rather the people who contribute to our economy the most be able to write off if they are giving back to that economy or community... because thats where the tax is supposed to redirect it anyway.

Every liberal hates the rich, yet every person has the american dream to become rich, that seem right?

[Spectatrix]

The death tax is double taxation. Fuck that.

[The Fanatic]

I dont like the death tax AT ALL because the money goes back to the government, the most wasteful and useless financial institution there is. People work hard their entire lives so they can better their own lives' and better their children's. If a governmentment arbitrarily takes cash from people it will hurt the middle class and poor, and not affect the rich at all. (Since the rich can afford to put all cash into investments [and usually already do], and the middle class are most likely to have their money in a bank account paying off bills.) And if you take the death tax before or after the funeral costs your still fucking the families... As brandon said, goes against capitalism.

Oh, and as for tax breaks i'd rather the people who contribute to our economy the most be able to write off if they are giving back to that economy or community... because thats where the tax is supposed to redirect it anyway.

Every liberal hates the rich, yet every person has the american dream to become rich, that seem right?

If you make more money, you should contribute more to the system...

[Trespass]

If you make more money, you should contribute more to the system...

and they do...

[impala454]

And no, you can't make the same write offs unless you are wealthy, as you do not have the capital nor do you own a business.

oh really? which ones can a rich citizen deduct that a middle class or poor can't?

renegade it would help you to give some data or something rather than just keep saying... "it'd be good, seriously, talk to a professor, read up on it, blah blah".

if you think the rich don't pay the vast majority of income taxes in this country, you're the one that needs to read up, and learn the existing income tax system before you decide something else is better.

[Billy]

i don't feel comfortable being "forced" to put my money anywhere. if i want to store it in a tin can in my back yard and sit on it because i'm paranoid i will do so. this tax will promote feelings counterproductive to capitalism. "why work hard when i am not going to get anything extra anyway" and breed further financial resentment against the goverment even further than it already is. force people into searching for every single little loophole to get away with crap and it will tear the entire system apart. but i don't expect you to understand anything about the impact on society it would cause. you don't deal well with people in the first place.
there is a big difference in between taking little bites here and there, and then kicking the bees nest that is america and slamming them with a open, straight in your face law "when you die, we are invading your home, and leaving your family starving in the cold." and yes, that is an exaggeration on what would happen, but thats what the american people will percieve, and convince themselves of. congrats, you just caused nationwide rioting. and attempted revolution.

you need to understand the statement that laws like that make. yes, we have a death tax, but nothing comes straight out and says "we are taking everything"
you do NOT threaten ones family, and thats what that death tax does in the eyes of americans. take your communist views elsewhere, cock-pocket

Ok you fucking uneducated retard (since we're name calling), do you not realize we already have a death tax that is somewhere near 50% of your ASSETS (that means your cash + the value of everything you own)? Changing to a cash only death tax would be paying less than what we pay right now. Because I promise you, people usually have atleast twice as much asset value (their cars, houses, ect) than they have in the bank when they die. What I hate seeing is families lose their FARMS because they can't afford to pay the tax on it. That is why I want this particular change. Do none of you get out? How can you possibly be against this?

The problem is, economically, we can't get rid of the death tax. It would cause huge recessions. But I think it can be changed to where the middle class benefit more but still has the benefit of keeping the economy invested. Switching to a tax on cash only (but the majority of it) I think solves both problems.

[Billy]

oh really? which ones can a rich citizen deduct that a middle class or poor can't?

renegade it would help you to give some data or something rather than just keep saying... "it'd be good, seriously, talk to a professor, read up on it, blah blah".

if you think the rich don't pay the vast majority of income taxes in this country, you're the one that needs to read up, and learn the existing income tax system before you decide something else is better.

Ok...WOW.

And no, you can't make the same write offs unless you are wealthy, as you do not have the capital nor do you own a business.

So let me put it in caps:

YOU MUST OWN A BUSINESS TO GET THE TAX DEDUCTIONS THE WEALTHY RECEIVE.

They do not write this stuff off on their own personal use. What they do is take a trip and deduct it on their business expense. I am sorry if you do not understand this, because I am not going to explain it further or the implications that this has. So if you disagree, fine. I do not think anyone has ever changed their opinion about anything over a message board anyway.

[Billy]

and they do...

No they don't. The middle class pay the majority of the tax.

I think this is absolutely insane that you brainwashed fools would be against something you would greatly benefit from. Because I assure you, as special as many of you think you are, it is likely no one here is going to get rich and live the luxury people like celebrities live.

But I guess this is why it is so easy for the wealthy to take advantage of the middle class. This right here is why it's so easy. People who don't want to be helped can't be helped.

[Trespass]

Why would there be a recession without the current death tax? Just as a legitimate question. (oh and just because i don't like yours doesn't mean i like the one we have now... im still against it)

And you talk about the farm... but most likely the farm is mortgaged, with only cash in account for payments...

And again, you talk about tax breaks, but they are there for a reason. To promote businesses to help on their own accord. You call the businesses wrong for obeying the law? I guess you can be against tax breaks in general, but i think they promote capatilism by letting people decide how to give back... instead of just the government. Oh and individuals can take advantage of the same tax breaks.... including working middleclass entrepreneurs

[Trespass]

No they don't. The middle class pay the majority of the tax.

BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE MIDDLE CLASS


i happen to have a finance degree on my wall, i wouldn't say im a complete moron (Or "brainwashed) on the subject just because YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW on what is right and wrong regarding taxes... the current system tends to agree with me actually.

Oh and i do plan on a healthy income from being a lawyer, so yeah i'd like to keep hard earned money if i eventually become this evil "wealthy" populace.

[Billy]

Why would there be a recession without the current death tax? Just as a legitimate question. (oh and just because i don't like yours doesn't mean i like the one we have now... im still against it)

And you talk about the farm... but most likely the farm is mortgaged, with only cash in account for payments...

And again, you talk about tax breaks, but they are there for a reason. To promote businesses to help on their own accord. You call the businesses wrong for obeying the law? I guess you can be against tax breaks in general, but i think they promote capatilism by letting people decide how to give back... instead of just the government. Oh and individuals can take advantage of the same tax breaks.... including working middleclass entrepreneurs

The reason why an economy would likely collapse without it is basically the snowball effect. Generation after generation hands down their assets, and it just grows. When too many people are able to do this, you end up in a situation where 1% of the population owns 99% of the wealth in the country. And I think, if history has taught us anything, that's bad.

BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE MIDDLE CLASS
i happen to have a finance degree on my wall, i wouldn't say im a complete moron (Or "brainwashed) on the subject just because YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW on what is right and wrong regarding taxs... the current system tends to agree with me actually.

Hey, I have one of those too.

[impala454]

Ok...WOW.

haha ok... great response. guess that means you're wrong. if you'd like to dispute my tax calculations above and show me wtf your "wow" response means, be my guest.

So let me put it in caps:

YOU MUST OWN A BUSINESS TO GET THE TAX DEDUCTIONS THE WEALTHY RECEIVE.

They do not write this stuff off on their own personal use. What they do is take a trip and deduct it on their business expense. I am sorry if you do not understand this, because I am not going to explain it further or the implications that this has. So if you disagree, fine. I do not think anyone has ever changed their opinion about anything over a message board anyway.

yeah... you can bold italic size=20 caps and you'll still be wrong. are you trying to tell me that every business owner in the country is "wealthy"? my dad sure as hell isn't wealthy, and he uses his personal truck as his business truck, and you damn well better believe he wrote it off. you know why they have that shit? because it helps the little guy start his own business. you want to take that away? you gonna cry because you can't write off your car just because you don't own your own business? gimme a break.

[Trespass]

The reason why an economy would likely collapse without it is basically the snowball effect. Generation after generation hands down their assets, and it just grows. When too many people are able to do this, you end up in a situation where 1% of the population owns 99% of the wealth in the country. And I think, if history has taught us anything, that's bad.
Hey, I have one of those too.

Yeah i thought you did, but just saying so you wouldn't get the idea you are the only "educated" person and talk so matter of fact because of it.

And i would think you would understand how money works if you have a degree. You say only 1% would own the money...like that money is just THEIRS and just gets suspended while everyone goes poor. I guess you forget that money (unless in a tin can that forsaken is sitting on) GOES BACK INTO THE SYSTEM. If in a bank, the bank lends it out to others so they can turn it into MORE MONEY. If in stocks it filters into the economy by raising and lowering the value of companies and giving them capital to increase their business creating JOBS.

Money never goes stationary, AND ALWAYS is available to those who need it to make their own riches.

And the government taxes don't really make a difference honestly on whether people are poor or rich and how they stay that way

[Billy]

So that's fair? So a guy who works just as hard for your dad, makes less, and can't even write off his truck, but still has to pay just as much tax? See, that's messed up.

[Trespass]

So that's fair? So a guy who works just as hard for your dad, makes less, and can't even write off his truck, but still has to pay just as much tax? See, that's messed up.

No its called letting the little guy make money... thought you were all about that...

nevermind

[Billy]

No its called letting the little guy make money... thought you were all about that...

nevermind

My parents own a business. It does quite well. They also write stuff off that ultimately benefits them, which one day will benefit me. So don't think I am making this argument in my own interest. But I truly believe the system is currently unfair to the labor class.

[Billy]

Yeah i thought you did, but just saying so you wouldn't get the idea you are the only "educated" person and talk so matter of fact because of it.

And i would think you would understand how money works if you have a degree. You say only 1% would own the money...like that money is just THEIRS and just gets suspended while everyone goes poor. I guess you forget that money (unless in a tin can that forsaken is sitting on) GOES BACK INTO THE SYSTEM. If in a bank, the bank lends it out to others so they can turn it into MORE MONEY. If in stocks it filters into the economy by raising and lowering the value of companies and giving them capital to increase their business creating JOBS.

Money never goes stationary, AND ALWAYS is available to those who need it to make their own riches.

And the government taxes don't really make a difference honestly on whether people are poor or rich and how they stay that way

Sigh.... you have got to be kidding.

Well, your genius has inspired me. I am clearly wrong. You win.

[FORSAKENR320]

Ok you fucking uneducated retard (since we're name calling), do you not realize we already have a death tax that is somewhere near 50% of your ASSETS (that means your cash + the value of everything you own)? Changing to a cash only death tax would be paying less than what we pay right now. Because I promise you, people usually have atleast twice as much asset value (their cars, houses, ect) than they have in the bank when they die. What I hate seeing is families lose their FARMS because they can't afford to pay the tax on it. That is why I want this particular change. Do none of you get out? How can you possibly be against this?

The problem is, economically, we can't get rid of the death tax. It would cause huge recessions. But I think it can be changed to where the middle class benefit more but still has the benefit of keeping the economy invested. Switching to a tax on cash only (but the majority of it) I think solves both problems.

tell me, when you empty someones bank account and all they have left is a car and a house, how do they switch that into currancy without selling it, dumb shit. all you've done is severely inconvieniance a family who is probably already stressed out enough because of the loss of a loved one. you don't seem to understand you are on very thin ice with that idea, it wouldn't go through, because the people wouldn't accept it. communism looked good on paper but it fails because it doesn't take into consideration the reality of humans. but that point is lost on you, because we all know you're a communist faggot anyway. and i know about the death tax, i don't like it either, but you're not getting the SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS of what you are suggesting. no politician would ever endorse such an idea because it would be political suicide. the government takes bits and pieces, and doing so they keep the public reasonably content. you don't just up and take all of one thing, even if it would be cheaper (which i doubt, no matter what your fucked up head thinks) you'll be asking for a riot.



i'm not argueing with cost of taxes or whatever, i'm telling you that even if your idea was completely sound and actually did work, the american public wouldn't go for it.

[Trespass]

My parents own a business. It does quite well. They also write stuff off that ultimately benefits them, which one day will benefit me. So don't think I am making this argument in my own interest. But I truly believe the system is currently unfair to the labor class.

No honestly i see what you are saying. But they are there for everyone. Its a capatilistic system that promotes BUSINESSES. Because businesses are the ones who give the jobs out. They also give lower tax brackets for lower incomes to try and help them in that way.

So yes they give tax breaks to further business, but they also give lower tax brackets for the lower class. So i think as a whole it is fair.

[woody]

So that's fair? So a guy who works just as hard for your dad, makes less, and can't even write off his truck, but still has to pay just as much tax? See, that's messed up.

the little guy should open his own business then.

[Trespass]

Sigh.... you have got to be kidding.

Well, your genius has inspired me. I am clearly wrong. You win.

feel free to show me where i am wrong... unless my sarcasticatron is off. Because im simply restating principles taught in Tech... maybe they are the old system of finance and money. Please feel free to tell me about how money ACTUALLY works so i can get rid these damn beliefs taught in college.

[Billy]

tell me, when you empty someones bank account and all they have left is a car and a house, how do they switch that into currancy without selling it, dumb shit. all you've done is severely inconvieniance a family who is probably already stressed out enough because of the loss of a loved one. you don't seem to understand you are on very thin ice with that idea, it wouldn't go through, because the people wouldn't accept it. communism looked good on paper but it fails because it doesn't take into consideration the reality of humans. but that point is lost on you, because we all know you're a communist faggot anyway. and i know about the death tax, i don't like it either, but you're not getting the SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS of what you are suggesting. no politician would ever endorse such an idea because it would be political suicide. the government takes bits and pieces, and doing so they keep the public reasonably content. you don't just up and take all of one thing, even if it would be cheaper (which i doubt, no matter what your fucked up head thinks) you'll be asking for a riot.

Brandon, please do the math:

I have $100 in my bank account. My house is worth $200.

Current system, I die, my family owes 50% of my cash ($50) and 50% of my house ($100). I owe, in cash, $150 to the government. I pay that in cash. Technically, my bank account gets emptied out anyway, and if my kids want to inheret the house, they have to pay the government an extra $50 of their own cash.

Under my system:

My kids get the house for free, owe nothing to the government. The government gets the $100 in the bank account.

So.... what's cheaper? I understand your argument, I just feel it is WRONG as you have to pay IN CASH ANYWAY.

[Billy]

I could propose that we need oxygen to breathe, and Seth, Brandon, and Impala would all disagree.

[Trespass]

Let's face the facts: I could propose that we need oxygen to breathe, and Seth, Brandon, and Impala would all disagree.

No it'd be more like you stating we breathe in your bullshit and it should smell sweet... and then we disagree.


Just because you REALLY believe in what you are saying doesn't make it right... sorry to tell you that, im sure it comes as a shock.

[FORSAKENR320]

I could propose that we need oxygen to breathe, and Seth, Brandon, and Impala would all disagree.

don't try to play that "everyone is against me" bullshit.



you're wrong, no one agrees with you, and you're a cunt

[Billy]

No it'd be more like you stating we breathe in your bullshit and it should smell sweet... and then we disagree.
Just because you REALLY believe in what you are saying doesn't make it right... sorry to tell you that, im sure it comes as a shock.

It does not matter what I say, you will disagree. It has been that way from the beginning. And if you agreed with it before I said it, you would disagree once I said it.

Just because you REALLY believe in what you are saying doesn't make it right... sorry to tell you that, im sure it comes as a shock.

Right back at ya

[Billy]

don't try to play that "everyone is against me" bullshit.
you're wrong, no one agrees with you, and you're a cunt

Brandon, you don't even really qualify to be in this conversation. But thanks for pretending.

[woody]

since when is an open forum a 'conversation'

[Trespass]

It does not matter what I say, you will disagree. It has been that way from the beginning. And if you agreed with it before I said it, you would disagree once I said it.

No actually... i just happen to disagree with you. If i do it a lot there IS a reason... because i disagree with you. Honestly you just have a fundamentally different view, which is fine, im just not of the same beliefs... sorry?

I have nothing against you or what you say guy, stop being so paranoid. You put forth something that people disagree with and then expect them to NOT disagree because YOU said it? Sorry, AGAIN i'll stop responding to what you post like in past threads because you seem to get butt hurt about it.

[FORSAKENR320]

Brandon, you don't even really qualify to be in this conversation. But thanks for pretending.

WHITE POWER














nigger

[impala454]

So that's fair? So a guy who works just as hard for your dad, makes less, and can't even write off his truck, but still has to pay just as much tax? See, that's messed up.

wtf does "working hard" have to do with shit? it's my dad's truck that does more work, so his business will run. if he bought a truck and didn't use it in his business it would last longer. like i said, the whole point of small business deductions is to promote the little guy. and shit the sales tax is what nails him worse than anything, and you want to increase that to 30%?

here's a nice little page a person did describing how the shit works:
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:u1Ln8q...t=clnk&cd=3

The Top 1% of taxpayers pay 29% of all taxes.
The Top 5% of taxpayers pay 50% of all taxes.

[Billy]

No actually... i just happen to disagree with you. If i do it a lot there IS a reason... because i disagree with you. Honestly you just have a fundamentally different view, which is fine, im just not of the same beliefs... sorry?

I have nothing against you or what you say guy, stop being so paranoid. You put forth something that people disagree with and then expect them to NOT disagree because YOU said it? Sorry, AGAIN i'll stop responding to what you post like in past threads because you seem to get butt hurt about it.

Yeah right. Butt hurt? I don't care if you disagree. You're not the first person to ever disagree with something I've said. Don't give yourself too much credit. I'm just stating an observation.

[Billy]

wtf does "working hard" have to do with shit? it's my dad's truck that does more work, so his business will run. if he bought a truck and didn't use it in his business it would last longer. like i said, the whole point of small business deductions is to promote the little guy. and shit the sales tax is what nails him worse than anything, and you want to increase that to 30%?

here's a nice little page a person did describing how the shit works:
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:u1Ln8q...t=clnk&cd=3

Ok, this is what I'm talking about. This is how you convince someone of your case.

So, the wealthy do indeed pay the most. That is very surprising and goes against common knowledge. My accounting professor told me when he was younger he did taxes for some wealthy business owners. He claimed that he, making a mere 50k a year paid more in tax than these multi millionaires. Perhaps this was an isolated case.

So do you find this system fair? Do you feel the current tax system is fair to everybody? Is it necessary to have as many different types of taxes as we do? Or do you think there could be a way where everyone just pays one tax, and that is what funds the government/military?

[impala454]

eh... for my own personal experiences i like it ok... kind of a forced savings account. i scowl when i see what comes out of my paycheck, but i damn sure love that huge check i get come tax time. it seems to, for the most part, help people in the lower tax brackets because they typically get their money back, gives incentives to owning a home, etc.

i think sales tax should be reworked, it doesn't make sense to me to have individual sales taxes by city/county/state whatever anymore, considering the amount of online sales nowadays.

[The Fanatic]

and they do...

bull shit

tax breaks

[Trespass]

bull shit

tax breaks

which are given to allow them to give their share to the "system" in a different way... (better business etc.)

[The Fanatic]

Right...