Democratic Priorities that scare me... Options

[Hartmann]

I'm interested in seeing what the Democrats do in power but the following stuff scares the crap out of me.

1. Military: Force an immediate drawdown of troops in Iraq and conduct oversight hearings on missteps on the war. Democrats renewed their call for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign.
   
   Definitely not a good idea.
   
   
2. Transportation: Consolidate air traffic control facilities. Allow more foreign control of airlines. Limit the number of Transportation Security Administration airport screeners to 45,000. More oversight hearings on the Federal Aviation Administration.
   
   What?! Foreign control of airlines?! I can't wait to fly "Al-Qaeda Air"!!!
   
   
3. Minimum wage. Pass legislation to raise the minimum wage from the current $5.15 an hour to $7.25
   
   This has been covered before, a basic economics course would help immensely.

Things I am glad to see happening:

1. Veterans affairs: Increase oversight with detailed budget accountings. More funding for veterans' health care, including additional mental health counseling for vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.
2. Energy and environment: Increase incentives for biodiesel, ethanol and other alternative fuels as well as wind, solar, geothermal and other sources of alternative energy. Renegotiate oil and gas leases that waived royalty payments to the government. Impose a national cap on industrial carbon dioxide emissions. Resist Bush's efforts to open more public lands to oil exploration (iffy on the last part).
3. Intelligence: Increase attention given to emerging terrorist threats in Africa and Southeast Asia and devote more resources to North Korea and Iran. More oversight of terrorism and government surveillance.

I am on the fence about some of their healthcare stuff, taxes, and agriculture plans.

[schwab]

i do not like the minimum wage...make that a state issue not a federal issue

and definently do not like the withdrawel of troops in iraq

[Trespass]

Maybe now that they have SOME power, they can actually put forth ideas instead of just fighting off republican ones.

They could also stop funding of the war to stop it... but no way do i think they would, but i could be wrong.

[woody]

They could also stop funding of the war to stop it... but no way do i think they would, but i could be wrong.

ya that'd be a really bad idea
gives the impression they'll sacrafice soldiers' lives to stop the war


not a good move

[pebkac]

I'm interested in seeing what the Democrats do in power but the following stuff scares the crap out of me.

1. Military: Force an immediate drawdown of troops in Iraq and conduct oversight hearings on missteps on the war. Democrats renewed their call for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign.
   
   Definitely not a good idea.
2. Transportation: Consolidate air traffic control facilities. Allow more foreign control of airlines. Limit the number of Transportation Security Administration airport screeners to 45,000. More oversight hearings on the Federal Aviation Administration.
   
   What?! Foreign control of airlines?! I can't wait to fly "Al-Qaeda Air"!!!
3. Minimum wage. Pass legislation to raise the minimum wage from the current $5.15 an hour to $7.25
   
   This has been covered before, a basic economics course would help immensely.

Things I am glad to see happening:

1. Veterans affairs: Increase oversight with detailed budget accountings. More funding for veterans' health care, including additional mental health counseling for vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.
2. Energy and environment: Increase incentives for biodiesel, ethanol and other alternative fuels as well as wind, solar, geothermal and other sources of alternative energy. Renegotiate oil and gas leases that waived royalty payments to the government. Impose a national cap on industrial carbon dioxide emissions. Resist Bush's efforts to open more public lands to oil exploration (iffy on the last part).
3. Intelligence: Increase attention given to emerging terrorist threats in Africa and Southeast Asia and devote more resources to North Korea and Iran. More oversight of terrorism and government surveillance.

I am on the fence about some of their healthcare stuff, taxes, and agriculture plans.

Could you post a link to all this stuff? Specifically the foreign control of airlines part?

[Spectatrix]

i do not like the minimum wage...make that a state issue not a federal issue

The minimum wage increase is a bad idea, that's true, but it's better executed at the federal level. When it's passed on the state level, it encourages businesses to move to other states. The effect is worse when increases are legislated locally, but it can happen at the state level too.

[Testm0nkey]

if americans werent ridiculous with money the minimum wage increase wouldnt destroy anything. id like to see how in a better environment it could change things around for the better.

foreign control of airlines im sure doesnt mean al queda air.

The department set a Jan. 6 deadline for comment when it issued its proposal last fall, and it clearly wants to settle the issue quickly. There is no formal linkage, but U.S. action on the control issue is likely to determine whether the European Union approves the U.S.-EU first-step agreement toward a fully liberalized transatlantic aviation area. The accord was negotiated and the control proposal was issued at about the same time. This is no coincidence: Europe wants the U.S. to relax its ownership and control restrictions, and its transport ministers will consider the outcome of the current rulemaking as they decide whether to approve the agreement.

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/chan...ws/011606p2.xml
i think maybe they dont like the fact their monopoly would be broken up by an even larger, foreign one? some of the airlines are happy because everyone there would have lost their jobs and the airlines would have run out of business without foreign investment.

id like to see america just pull out of iraq. i cant imagine it getting worse just because of that.

i hope they actually stick to their environmental policy suggestions. if america didnt fuck itself up so badly id be a big proponent for nuclear power. with half the world wanting to kill us and the other half watching thinking america is crazy redevloping nuclear power in the us isnt going to happen anytime soon. id like to see some sort of deadline for these polices. itd be awesome that if in 20 years renewable energy accounted for 75% of all energy use. and no coal is not a renewable resource nor is itany better than oil! fuck off coalminers

anything ever involving veteran affairs is a ploy for "patriots" thats what ive always thought. helping after the fact can only do so much. why dont they change military policy so the miltary arent lab rats for the medical coporations. then maybe there would have been singular incidents of shit breaking down. i guess i am too removed from this aspect of life as my father a career military dude has never had a complaint but i dont see how the average american knows anything more?

increase intelligence over the north koreans and africa finally

[Jim]

Stay the course!

[Hartmann]

if americans werent ridiculous with money the minimum wage increase wouldnt destroy anything. id like to see how in a better environment it could change things around for the better.

foreign control of airlines im sure doesnt mean al queda air.

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/chan...ws/011606p2.xml
i think maybe they dont like the fact their monopoly would be broken up by an even larger, foreign one? some of the airlines are happy because everyone there would have lost their jobs and the airlines would have run out of business without foreign investment.

id like to see america just pull out of iraq. i cant imagine it getting worse just because of that.

I was being sarcastic when I said the al-queda air. Let's keep U.S. airlines U.S. run, that's all I want. If we were investing in foreign airlines it would at some point be seen as imperialistic.

[pebkac]

Americans invest in foreign companies all the time and it's not viewed as imperialistic.

[Hartmann]

Americans invest in foreign companies all the time and it's not viewed as imperialistic.

I just want the control of airlines to stay in U.S. hands, that's all. We saw what happened when foreign investors were going to come in and take over some ports... There are certain aspects of the economy that foreign investment is not recommended, I'd say transportation is one of those.

[Testm0nkey]

theres already a lot of foreign investment in the airlines

[Hartmann]

theres already a lot of foreign investment in the airlines

Some, not a lot. And, here's the kicker, the foreign investors, under current regulations are not given the ability to influence the operation of that airline. If the new regulations actually go through then the investors would be able to change operations/procedures.

[The Fanatic]

if americans werent ridiculous with money the minimum wage increase wouldnt destroy anything. id like to see how in a better environment it could change things around for the better.

The way Americans spend money has nothing to do with the effects of an increase in minimum wage. The problem is this: Let's say you are a small buisness owner, that you own a mom and pop burger joint. If you are forced to pay your employees 6.50 an hour instead of 5.15/5.50, you will lose some of your profit and will be "forced" to increase your prices to meet your ends.

I say screw minimum wage, what we really need is a living wage in the united states...

[Divergent Realit...]

The way Americans spend money has nothing to do with the effects of an increase in minimum wage. The problem is this: Let's say you are a small buisness owner, that you own a mom and pop burger joint. If you are forced to pay your employees 6.50 an hour instead of 5.15/5.50, you will lose some of your profit and will be "forced" to increase your prices to meet your ends.

I say screw minimum wage, what we really need is a living wage in the united states...

depends on what you are selling and the conditions of the local market

[cupcake]

anything ever involving veteran affairs is a ploy for "patriots" thats what ive always thought. helping after the fact can only do so much. why dont they change military policy so the miltary arent lab rats for the medical coporations. then maybe there would have been singular incidents of shit breaking down. i guess i am too removed from this aspect of life as my father a career military dude has never had a complaint but i dont see how the average american knows anything more?

after the fact is when most trigger pullers need the help.

your father, if I recall was stationed at Kadena in Oki, meaning airforce, meaning non trigger puller. so no he wouldn't have too many psychological or medical issues as a result of combat, thank god.

it's not all about experimental drugs.

[FORSAKENR320]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS3hoFmQTdE


scares me too

[Seeker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS3hoFmQTdE
scares me too

i like the video description:

Rush Limbaugh... political bulldog, sabre-rattler, bell end, armchair general, drug addict, scat muncher.

lmao

[Hartmann]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS3hoFmQTdE
scares me too

Wow. So only republicans scare you?

[Mommy]

1) I dont know how I feel about pulling troops out of Iraq... Doesnt seem like the situation is going to change anytime soon and we are just wasting resources over there... at least thats what it seems like at this point.

2) Consolidating air traffic control, allowing foreign control of airlines, and limiting the TSA... wow. thats really stupid. On the other hand, many reports have shown that air travel isnt any safer then it was before 9/11.

3) I am all for raising minimum wage. I dont think economics courses can predict what the effect of raising minimum wage will be. Its all theoretical. As it very well could hurt the economy, it could also help it. I dont see $7.25 as unreasonable seeing as how minimum wage has been the same for 10 years.


Issues that are most important to me right now:
1) Education
2) Healthcare
3) Iraq
4) North Korea and Iran

I put Iraq before N.K. and Iran because we need to solve one problem at a time otherwise we will get in over our heads.


This post has been edited by Jessica: Nov 8 2006, 02:54 PM

[Spectatrix]

$7.25 isn't problematic, so long as it's increased incrementally. There will be problems if they try to increase it in one step.

[Mommy]

$7.25 isn't problematic, so long as it's increased incrementally. There will be problems if they try to increase it in one step.

exactly.. baby steps

I feel its worse to leave it at 5.15 then it would be to slowly raise it

[Hartmann]

A decent explanation as to why increasing the minimum wage won't help as much as people think: http://ingrimayne.com/econ/AllocatingRatio...ceCeilings.html

[impala454]

2) Consolidating air traffic control, allowing foreign control of airlines, and limiting the TSA... wow. thats really stupid. On the other hand, many reports have shown that air travel isnt any safer then it was before 9/11.

What do you mean? Why would the safety of air travel be any different regarding 911? I know it seems obvious it would change but it really shouldn't have. I mean, over millions of flights, how many have crashed/been wrecked into buildings?

[The Fanatic]

What do you mean? Why would the safety of air travel be any different regarding 911? I know it seems obvious it would change but it really shouldn't have. I mean, over millions of flights, how many have crashed/been wrecked into buildings?

What the hell do you mean '"it should not have". Yeah, there were not many planes that were flown into buildings but there were many planes that were hijacked before 9/11, and those terrorists could have done the exact same thing if they wanted to. Not to mention all the other loonies who snuck guns onto planes. Do you remember the Titanic. After it sank, new regulations were put into place to guarantee a lifeboat for every person that traveled on ocean liners. It would be unthinkable and unresponsible not to reform the airline industry after 9/11.

[impala454]

I'm sorry to say this, but honestly I couldn't really give a rats ass who's in office. All any of the politicians care about is keeping themselves in office. Nobody ever has the balls to do what they really want to do because they don't want to upset the herd. Democrat, Republican, Independent, it doesn't matter. Sure my gas might go up 30%, but I don't care, I pay it and move on. Shit my cable and cell phone bills have gone up more than my gas costs.

It just seems to me our elections have a much more prominent effect on the rest of the world rather than our own nation.

The issues discussed here, how much is it really going to effect your daily life? For some, maybe it will, but for me... well to list the major issues discussed here:

1. Withdraw troops- ok... withdraw them, don't withdraw them... doesn't really matter to me.

2. Foreign Control of Airlines- not sure what all this means, but as long as I can fly somewhere and back without any problem, I don't really care.

3. Minimum Wage- Doesn't really matter to me what the burger flippers make. And if a company is big enough to have thousands of minimum wage workers, they make enough money to cover it. I doubt it'd really have much impact on me, so I really don't care.

----

1. Veterans- blah blah... I respect em, greatful that they fought for our country, etc, but could really care less about any of their issues. mental health on returning from war? ok... well when you take a job where you're trained to kill people for a living, you'll probably see some pretty messed up shit at one point or another. either way, doesn't really matter to me.

2. Energy and environment- biodiesel, ethanol. again don't really care. my truck can run on E85 but I hear it sucks. I'd probably try it, but it's not any big deal to me. incentives for solar/wind energy might be interesting, but it's the government so it probably wouldn't ever be any incentives worth a shit. and carbon dioxide emissions? or do you mean monoxide? either way... doesn't really effect me so I don't care. I recycle cans & plastic bottles (erin got me doing it when she rented a room for me), but I only really do it bc it means less trips to the damn dumpster. either way, the issue doesn't strike me think some politician will change the world with it.

3. intelligence- check up on terrorists more... ok.. cool. i'm sure this is on any politician's list of todos. i don't really care much on this either. i mean yeah i dont want to be attacked, but what kind of glorious difference is some bill or politician going to make that "puts up the terrorist shield" and makes us invicible?

sorry to make such a long post and seem so pessimistic, I just don't really see elections as all that meaningful. They talk on the news about all this big change and what they're gonna do. gimme a break. nothing ever changes for us that much.

[Mommy]

What do you mean? Why would the safety of air travel be any different regarding 911? I know it seems obvious it would change but it really shouldn't have. I mean, over millions of flights, how many have crashed/been wrecked into buildings?

9/11 Should have never happened. Additionally, once something major like that happens, generally more are to follow because terrorists (I hate that word) see an opening. If we were to let our guard down again something would happen... thats just the world we live in. That doesnt mean we need to live in fear. It just means we need to use caution.

As far as crashes are concerned... many crashes happen when an air traffic controller fouls up. Its the most stressful job to have.... consolidating would be a terrible idea.

[Jim]

Hack the planet.

[impala454]

9/11 Should have never happened. Additionally, once something major like that happens, generally more are to follow because terrorists (I hate that word) see an opening. If we were to let our guard down again something would happen... thats just the world we live in. That doesnt mean we need to live in fear. It just means we need to use caution.

well hell no i don't live in fear, but it's not like flying was ever unsafe. it was a tragedy yes, but we're still talkin about a few accidents/3 terrorist actions in how many million flights? flying is safer than driving your car. it was before and still is after 9/11.

As far as crashes are concerned... many crashes happen when an air traffic controller fouls up. Its the most stressful job to have.... consolidating would be a terrible idea.

i haven't done any research on the cause of all airplane crashes in the last ten years or so, but I'm not sure that "many" air traffic controllers are the cause of crashes. and although i don't know the details of the "consolidation" of air traffic controllers, i seriously doubt mustafa jihad of al-qaeda will be put in charge.

[Hartmann]

Some of the worst air disasters have occurred because of air traffic controller fatigue or stress (the Tenerife runway incursion comes to mind). There are other examples of this and usually they turn out to be some of the worst disasters because the aircraft are fully loaded with fuel.

[Divergent Realit...]

Hack the planet.

theyre trashing our rights man.

hack the planet.

[Billy]

A decent explanation as to why increasing the minimum wage won't help as much as people think: http://ingrimayne.com/econ/AllocatingRatio...ceCeilings.html

You only think it's good because you agree with it.

[Dogmeat]

if we keep making poor people richer then the rich people will be poorer.

fuck raising the minimum wage, I say lower it

[Seussninja]

yeah fuck those nigicewlims and their money they should work for free lololololololl

[The Fanatic]

We should re-institute slavery

[Seussninja]

We should re-institute slavery

agreed, some people don't deserve basic freedoms.

[Hartmann]

You only think it's good because you agree with it.

No, I think it's good because it follows the basic laws of economics instead of using power as the basis. You can't really argue with Smith and Mills, mostly 'cause they're dead.

[Billy]

No, I think it's good because it follows the basic laws of economics instead of using power as the basis. You can't really argue with Smith and Mills, mostly 'cause they're dead.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're going to argue (which you have in the past) that based on "inflation" the price of gas is actually really cheap, then I'm going to take that same "inflation" and claim minimum wage is currently too low. It has not seen an increase since 1997, almost 10 years. But no doubt, "inflation" has definitely made everything more expensive.

Here's a nice historical tidbit on the last time minimum wage was raised so the anti labor class can shut the fuck up about their "the world will end" theories on if minimum wage gets an increase:

Recent history offers something of a counterargument here: During a 1996 debate about raising the minimum wage from $4.25 to $5.15, opponents said that the increase would cost between 100,000 and 625,000 new jobs. In 1997, the non-farm economy created more than 3 million new jobs, unemployment was at its lowest rate in 28 years, the gross domestic product expanded by 3.8 percent, and the growth in earnings took off. In addition, real average hourly earnings saw their largest increases in 21 years. And in 1999, New Hampshire ranked first in the country with a 5.5-percent increase in jobs from the previous year.

Strikingly similar argument. Yet, that didn't happen last time. Nor the time before. And won't happen now. There is definitely something wrong with your "economics". Because what you claim in theory, does not even come close to happening in the real economic world. Actually, arguably, the opposite happens.

[Hartmann]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're going to argue (which you have in the past) that based on "inflation" the price of gas is actually really cheap, then I'm going to take that same "inflation" and claim minimum wage is currently too low. It has not seen an increase since 1997, almost 10 years. But no doubt, "inflation" has definitely made everything more expensive.

Here's a nice historical tidbit on the last time minimum wage was raised so the anti labor class can shut the fuck up about their "the world will end" theories on if minimum wage gets an increase:
Strikingly similar argument. Yet, that didn't happen last time. Nor the time before. And won't happen now. There is definitely something wrong with your "economics". Because what you claim in theory, does not even come close to happening in the real economic world. Actually, arguably, the opposite happens.

I've never said that gas is really cheap (or cheap for that matter), I've said it is on par and not high. And it's on par for many reasons, including inflation, but also because of consumption of natural resources, war (unnatural inflation), etc. I agree that things are more expensive but I also know that there is balance here. We are not putting more people out on the street every time the dollar loses a few pennies of value... I mean, are we? I just think the balance is going to be disturbed and the long term effects will be more costly than an extra $2 an hour for businesses.

I don't think the world will end, but thanks for taking my view completely out of context. I think that we will see an "unnatural" decrease in small business, an "unnatural" jump in inflation (last time I checked inflation/deflation was natural), and a nail in the housing market's coffin (don't know why, just have a feeling).

I am just against it. I think that if it is going to happen it should happen at extremely slow pace, which basically offset it anyway (people getting yearly raises to compensate for inflation *cough*)

[Billy]

I think that we will see an "unnatural" decrease in small business, an "unnatural" jump in inflation (last time I checked inflation/deflation was natural), and a nail in the housing market's coffin (don't know why, just have a feeling).

Is that what happened last time? Because if something similar happened in the past then you have a case; a reason to believe the way you do. But if not, you really should stop holding on to flawed theories. If policy can be made based on past evidence instead of belief, then policy should be made based on past evidence instead of belief.

I am completely willing to agree with you on what will happen if the minimum wage gets increased if you can show me evidence to support these claims. Because I have not seen any so far. But I have seen plenty of evidence to refute them. And by evidence, I do not mean links to reputable economists. That's like claiming the Bible is fact by citing the pope. No, I want history. That's what I want.

[Hartmann]

Is that what happened last time? Because if something similar happened in the past then you have a case; a reason to believe the way you do. But if not, you really should stop holding on to flawed theories. If policy can be made based on past evidence instead of belief, then policy should be made based on past evidence instead of belief.

I am completely willing to agree with you on what will happen if the minimum wage gets increased if you can show me evidence to support these claims. Because I have not seen any so far. But I have seen plenty of evidence to refute them. And by evidence, I do not mean links to reputable economists. That's like claiming the Bible is fact by citing the pope. No, I want history. That's what I want.

But history in Economics is so hard to cite because of outliers. I mean, I could say some change caused the oil prices to spike in 1981, but there are so many other factors that had to occur to get that to happen that it is futile. To quote Joseph Stiglitz on the last federal minimum wage increase: "[it] was totally swamped by other factors going on in the economy"

I am willing to go into the minimum wage thing with an open mind, however, I have my doubts. I think that the current housing situation will play integral part in what happens. I think that the ecological stance the democrats take will impact what happens, if they open up drilling in places and gas prices go down, then the housing market goes back up (a small amount).

You say "flawed theory" but I don't know what you mean? You mean supply and demand? I am just using my understanding of economics as a whole to try and understand the minimum wage thing.

I will say that I read Alan Kreuger's study of fast food minimum wage and it's definitely interesting. Fast food places with higher minimum wage were able to keep people longer, hire more efficient workers, etc. I do think that's sociological more than economic but that's beside the point.

I guess the catch overall is not something that economics can predict, instead we need a sociologist that can tell us how people will react. My first instinct is that people will spend more, booming the economy a little, but there will also be an increase in debt (since most of this country is in debt anyway).

[Hartmann]

Oh, my thing with the consolidation of air traffic control facilities is that the current system, if stuck to, works. If you fly US Air or United (can't remember which), they let you listen to the radio chatter of the ATC and it's pretty amazing to hear how efficient they are.

I've tuned into the ATC and ground control here and it makes my jaw drop. If anything, Congress should be pushing for ground radar at all commercial airline facilities. Most runway incursions occur in bad weather in places where ground radar is not in place.