BOTCHED SCHOOL SHOOTING Options

[FORSAKENR320]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090518/ap_on_...school_shooting

LAROSE, La. – A Louisiana middle school student stormed into a classroom and fired a gunshot over a teacher's head Monday before shooting himself in a bathroom, authorities said. Investigators found a suicide note and plans for a rampage in the teen's journal.

The 15-year-old student, whose name was not released, fired once around 9 a.m. inside a classroom at Larose-Cut Off Middle School, then shot himself in the head, said Lafourche Parish Sheriff Craig Webre. He was in critical but stable condition. The teacher had never taught the teen.

Webre said investigators found a note describing the boy's plans to "gear up" before his spree, along with a drawing of how he'd dress. The boy also scribbled "I am king" and "y'all will die!" on a sheet of paper investigators found.

Although he apparently was intent on killing people, he was armed with only four bullets for the .25-caliber, semiautomatic pistol he had taken from his father's home during the weekend. The boy's mother noticed he seemed nervous before school, but he said he was just worried about seeing his standardized test results, which were released Monday, Webre said.

About 500 sixth-, seventh- and eighth-graders attend the school in a rural community of about 7,000 people, some 45 miles southwest of New Orleans. Webre said the boy had no disciplinary problems at school and hadn't been in trouble with the law. The teen had no reason to be in the classroom, he said.

He was a year or two older than most of his classmates, who described him as a quiet boy who never talked about guns or violence.

Webre said investigators found inside the boy's bookbag a completely filled journal and two loose sheets of paper that appeared to be a plan for the shooting and a suicide note. The school has both standing and handheld metal detectors, but they aren't used all the time and weren't in use Monday.

Webre said the boy arrived at the school in uniform — white shirt, khaki pants — but changed into camouflage pants shown in his drawing. In an expletive-laced note, he wrote, "First, I will tell my art class teacher that I had to go to the bathroom. Then I would go to the last stall and 'gear up.'"

Eighth-grader Dustin Sevin said the boy has been his friend for several years and that he never talked about guns or violence. At the end of second period, his friend said he needed to see the nurse and left with his backpack.

The teen apparently headed to another classroom, walked to the front of the room and pointed the pistol at the whiteboard, said sheriff's spokeswoman Sgt. Lesley Hill-Peters. He tried to fire at the board, but it wouldn't go off. He then stepped forward, pointed the gun at the teacher, raised it and fired a single shot over her head.

Coley Gaspard, 14, said he was in his seventh-grade English and reading class when the boy came in. The teen yelled for everyone to get down, cursing at the class.

Nobody moved. Gaspard knew the boy, whom he described as quiet and nice, and thought it was a dramatic enactment for some sort of lesson. Then, he said, the boy walked over and pointed the gun at the teacher, ordering her to say, "Hail Marilyn Manson," referring to the shock-rock icon, Gaspard said.

She said nothing. He fired into the wall and told another boy to get up. The seventh-grader stayed in his seat, and the teen left.

Hill-Peters, the spokeswoman, said she couldn't confirm Gaspard's account.

"After a situation like this you're going to have a lot of kids, a lot of parents, a lot of people saying a lot of stuff," she said.

The school was scheduled to reopen Tuesday with enhanced security and several counselors on hand.

i am such a d&d geek, that i started listing off all the failed bluffs, intimidate checks, diplomacy, and the attacks......

although, he passed his fortitude save on the critical attack to his head.....

[cmac]

Hail Marilyn Manson

blaming the music, and all the heat that music gets for this kinda stuff bothers me. like how manson got blamed for columbine.

[impala454]

Yeah don't blame the music, blame the guns!

[cmac]

if i hold marilyn manson up to your head and pull the trigger i like your chances

[impala454]

exact same principle, funny that you got called on it.

[cmac]

i got called on it if somehow i stuff ammo up marilyn manson's ass and they come out his mouth at lethal speed.
otherwise, no.

[impala454]

Yes, it's exactly the same principle. Blaming anyone/anything other than the person is stupid. It's just as stupid to blame Marilyn Manson as it is the gun.

[cmac]

and this is the base in our difference of opinion.

[Spectatrix]

Blah blah blah

[impala454]

shaddap you with your tramp shirt

[FORSAKENR320]

i agree with impala.

people who can't be subjegated to and conform to a normal existance in society have no place in it. it's not the fault of what they are exposed to, it's the fault of the person.

this is the normal policy on dealing with "crazy" people. i don't understand where the confusion lies..

[pysex]

i agree with impala.

people who can't be subjegated to and conform to a normal existance in society have no place in it. it's not the fault of what they are exposed to, it's the fault of the person.

this is the normal policy on dealing with "crazy" people. i don't understand where the confusion lies..

what bs

it's a well known fact that how a person's personality is formed is what they are exposed to during the critical development stages of their life....the most important being the social aspect

if that kid started listening to marilyn manson in jr. high...and he found another kid that listened to it and said he liked it...they become friends and then they begin a group of people that like marilyn manson and when you get a group of people that like it they begin to live it....and when you throw in the hodgepodge of other mentally whacked out stuff like his father beating him and calling him a dipshit that's one potent cocktail of dangerous....i can say the same thing about you and D&D...you yourself just said you rolled for his actions...have you done that in the past in other real life situations? how often do you talk about it? play it? so you live it.....

although i do agree that people make their own choices and they can discern the difference between right and wrong...they just choose to do the wrong thing

[impala454]

It doesn't matter that the kid listens to or likes Marilyn Manson. What matters is if Marilyn Manson is the kid's role model/authority figure instead of his parents or some other good role model.

The simple fact is, for every person that blames Marilyn Manson or a gun or some other inanimate object for violence, there are umpteen millions that do the same things that aren't violent.

[THECHICKEN]

Its obviously the guns/Marilyn Manson's fault, definitely not the parents though. Theres only so much they can do, and how can they compete against music and inanimate objects?

[FORSAKENR320]

although i do agree that people make their own choices and they can discern the difference between right and wrong...they just choose to do the wrong thing

and you would still hold music accountable for their actions.... you completely counter yourself


in my experience, the most violent, ass-hatish people with no regard for anyone else's well-being lean towards the popped collar, gap wearing fucks who jam to Sublime and hum the lyrics to "Summertime Girls" surely they are also a product of the music they listen to.

[pysex]

and you would still hold music accountable for their actions.... you completely counter yourself


in my experience, the most violent, ass-hatish people with no regard for anyone else's well-being lean towards the popped collar, gap wearing fucks who jam to Sublime and hum the lyrics to "Summertime Girls" surely they are also a product of the music they listen to.

because everyone is different...people do make the choices...i don't listen to marilyn manson because i think he's a complete douchebag

not because my parents said he was...not because my friends said he was....but because i think his music is terrible and he looks like an effing retard


but if my parents said marilyn manson was cool...and my friends said he was cool...and i liked the message he communicated...i'd probably be living more like marilyn manson than i am now

that's influence...even though i chose...i was still influenced and it affected my choice

most people aren't strong willed like you or me...the choices they make are fucking stupid and usually influenced by someone like marilyn manson or paris hilton

IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE...but it does exist

[FORSAKENR320]

because everyone is different...people do make the choices...i don't listen to marilyn manson because i think he's a complete douchebag

not because my parents said he was...not because my friends said he was....but because i think his music is terrible and he looks like an effing retard


but if my parents said marilyn manson was cool...and my friends said he was cool...and i liked the message he communicated...i'd probably be living more like marilyn manson than i am now

that's influence...even though i chose...i was still influenced and it affected my choice

most people aren't strong willed like you or me...the choices they make are fucking stupid and usually influenced by someone like marilyn manson or paris hilton

IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE...but it does exist

i am failing to see the point you're getting at. if everyone is influenced differently, but the rules of our society have to apply to everyone, what would be your solution to avoid this issue

[pysex]

my point is you can't say people aren't influenced by outside sources

that's just fucking not true

[FORSAKENR320]

my point is you can't say people aren't influenced by outside sources

that's just fucking not true

i'm not saying they aren't influenced. in fact, i never mentioned anything to the contrary.

what i am saying is that no matter what people are influenced by, it's still their responsibility to act appropriately in society. if they can't do that, they are removed from society.


from your little rant, you're telling us one of 2 things, though i'm not sure which.

either you believe that we should get rid of the "harmful" music, so that people don't shoot others, or you think that "special" laws should be in place to handle these people who "just don't know better due to their enviroment"

which is it?

[pysex]

i'm not saying they aren't influenced. in fact, i never mentioned anything to the contrary.

what i am saying is that no matter what people are influenced by, it's still their responsibility to act appropriately in society. if they can't do that, they are removed from society.


from your little rant, you're telling us one of 2 things, though i'm not sure which.

either you believe that we should get rid of the "harmful" music, so that people don't shoot others, or you think that "special" laws should be in place to handle these people who "just don't know better due to their enviroment"

which is it?

you said it's not the fault of what they are exposed to...it's the person

in some cases you're right...in others you aren't....

i doubt this boy was told that manson is a pretty fucking evil character and his shit is dark and not normal so his behavior was only reinforced

i blame the parents for not censoring it from the boy but i can't stop manson from making garbage....it's a free country right? the land of freedom from responsibility...

[FORSAKENR320]

you said it's not the fault of what they are exposed to...it's the person

in some cases you're right...in others you aren't....

i'm wanting to say you're wrong in this case although we don't know all the details about the boys life

if his last words were hail marilyn manson...i have a pretty strong feeling manson was an icon in his life and lived by his message

THAT'S MY POINT. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT LAWS OR CENSORSHIP...I WANT TO MAKE THE POINT THAT OUTSIDE INFLUENCE CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN!

yes... which still comes down to the kids responsibility to understand right and wrong enough to not shoot himself and others... if he can't do that, then he needs to be removed from society like the other crazy people.

no matter what he was influenced by, it doesn't justify his behavior. even if he grew up in a cannibalistic, incest orgy family and was "influenced" by it to believe that to be normal and correct behavior, he is still required to conform to normal societies expectations.

[impala454]

You're missing the point about parenting pysex. It's not that parents should censor stuff like Marilyn Manson. It's that they teach their kids discipline and morality and social skills. So that if the kid does choose to listen to some weird music, maybe they can enjoy it but not necessarily act on it. Just like you see there's kids who sit down and enjoy the ninja turtles, and maybe play act a little, and there's others who watch it, then go karate chop everything and everyone in sight. It's all a matter of how they're raised. Parents aren't the end all be all as no doubt there's some crappy parents out there, and that's just bad luck on the part of the kid. But they are definitely the first and biggest influence on a child. The attitude and social skills of the kid is definitely partially the parents fault. But having a bad attitude is not a crime, pulling the trigger is, and nobody but the shooter is at fault for that.

[FORSAKENR320]

You're missing the point about parenting pysex. It's not that parents should censor stuff like Marilyn Manson. It's that they teach their kids discipline and morality and social skills. So that if the kid does choose to listen to some weird music, maybe they can enjoy it but not necessarily act on it. Just like you see there's kids who sit down and enjoy the ninja turtles, and maybe play act a little, and there's others who watch it, then go karate chop everything and everyone in sight. It's all a matter of how they're raised. Parents aren't the end all be all as no doubt there's some crappy parents out there, and that's just bad luck on the part of the kid. But they are definitely the first and biggest influence on a child. The attitude and social skills of the kid is definitely partially the parents fault. But having a bad attitude is not a crime, pulling the trigger is, and nobody but the shooter is at fault for that.

THIS

(on a side note... this is prolly the one post that CMAC really needs to read concerning the truth about guns... but i guarantee it'll be the one post he ignores)

[cmac]

jesus... i agree with that, but i'm not putting marilyn manson in the same category as the gun. they are completely unrelated. i'm not pulling marilyn manson's trigger and killing people. it's an physical object that causes death. marilyn manson is a person that hurts ears.

[chook]

Sometimes you do everything right as a parent but your kids are just crazy

[FORSAKENR320]

jesus... i agree with that, but i'm not putting marilyn manson in the same category as the gun. they are completely unrelated. i'm not pulling marilyn manson's trigger and killing people. it's an physical object that causes death. marilyn manson is a person that hurts ears.

THE POINT IS MOOT FOR YOU ANYWAY.

they took guns away in the UK, and now they're stabbing each other with knives. i guess your solution would be to ban all knives too?

your way doesn't work, so you need to rethink your ideology.

[cmac]

THE POINT IS MOOT FOR YOU ANYWAY.

then why'd you ask..?

they took guns away in the UK, and now they're stabbing each other with knives. i guess your solution would be to ban all knives too?

no. kill me with a knife from 300 yards away. impossible.

[FORSAKENR320]

then why'd you ask..?

no. kill me with a knife from 300 yards away. impossible.

try to guess which of the random people that are in arms reach want to kill you....

impossible

[cmac]

less than .00001% (sorry impala, no source)
i understand you had a rough situation happen to you. but the odds are slim.

This post has been edited by cmac: May 25 2009, 07:55 PM

[chook]

Not having guns would not let a psycho kid kill a whole classroom. Nice idea but look at Mexico, guns illegal and they are still everewhere

[impala454]

no. kill me with a knife from 300 yards away. impossible.

There are very few people who could kill you at 300 yards with a gun either. What is your problem with this distance bullshit anyways? You keep bringing it up. How many people have a house that's 300 yards long? My God, use your brain dude.

[cmac]

cause it's cowardly. i've explained this.
guns are cowardly.
i take the defensive approach and you guys have the offensive approach. or vice versa or something.

[impala454]

You didn't even answer the question. You're not even making sense.

"How many robberies happen at 300 yards"

"Because it's cowardly"



You take the approach that the guns, the inanimate metal objects, are the primary faults for these crimes happening. We can post crime stats from gun banned countries, we can post the numbers of guns that exist vs gun crimes, we can post data til we're blue in the face and you just shrug it off with stupid remarks like "it's cowardly". You're sidestepping the point. Whether it's cowardly or not is irrelevant. The "cowardly" factor is common in ALL violent crime, no matter what weapon is chosen.

[cmac]

how many robberies happen at 300 yards? none. how many convenience stores are held up at 5 yards? all. same thing. cowardly.
try to hold up a 7/11 with your swiss army with a counter in between you and the clerk. you're gonna get laughed at.

[THECHICKEN]

I could put a knife to someones throat and order a register open just as easy as putting a gun to someone. Guns kill at a longer distance, THATS A GOOD THING. Because if i (the law abiding citizen rightfully protecting myself) has to use just and deadly force, im not gonna do it with a baseball bat or with ninja skillz, im gonna use something that assures i win, and they lose. Call me a coward, i call myself smart. Not only that, if its a woman, the hand to hand skills pretty much go out the window... yet im sure they would still be "cowards".

Guns don't make someone a "coward" anymore than a gun pulls its own trigger to kill someone.

[impala454]

how many robberies happen at 300 yards? none.

Thank you. You can see now how stupid your "point" is.

how many convenience stores are held up at 5 yards? all. same thing. cowardly.

All crime is cowardly. The gun doesn't change that. Why on earth do you think you're making some kinda fucking point calling a gun cowardly? Are you ok with "brave" crime? Are you fine with someone getting strangled or stabbed to death instead??? Geezus lay down the bong for five minutes.

try to hold up a 7/11 with your swiss army with a counter in between you and the clerk. you're gonna get laughed at.

Well no shit you're gonna get laughed at, becaues the clerk probably has a GUN

[FORSAKENR320]

used to work as a clerk for 7-11. you'd be surprised the number of robberies that occur that never make it into the news. there is a very good reason why all the 7-11's in lubbock are no longer open 24/7. majority of them are also knife related.

(on a different note, it's ironic that 7-11 changed their business hours, when then majority of those unreported robberies happen during the day time.)

i admit cmac, you've backed your way into a corner. i feel that everything you have given as a reason to back your decision has been fairly countered with decent arguements.