WHAT IN THE FUCK HAPPENED TO GAS PRICES Options

[Mommy]

In Port Wentworth, GA, here is a 3 day time line of gas prices:

2 days ago: $3.83
Yesterday: $3.69 (went DOWN)
This morning: $3.79
This afternoon: $3.97
Now: $4.39

Oh and it's not like it's just like that at the gas station by our house. We went to the island and to Savannah this evening. We filled up in Savannah. The pump read $4.39, and it pumped at $4.49/gal. It cost us $68.01 to fill up a CAR. Jesus fucking Christ. Seriously, anyone who votes for Obama can kiss our economy goodbye.

[dauss]

I hope your not serious, because the reason of the price increase:
Hurricane Ike.

[James]

You should've demanded a refund on the $.10 per gallon. Advertise one price and sell for another is not an ok thing to do.

[impala454]

Yeah Houston accounts for something like 30% of the nation's gasoline supply, and all of the refineries are going to be down for at least a few days.

[Mommy]

I hope your not serious, because the reason of the price increase:
Hurricane Ike.

Well no shit, Sherlock. My point is it went up $.80 at the pump in one day. That's unheard of. I don't recall it doing that when Katrina hit. Additionally, the trickle down isn't going to happen right away. I mean, yes they closed refineries, but I imagine it would take 5-7 days to feel the effects of that all the way in GEORGIA. That's my point. We don't live in Texas.

By the way, there is a very big difference between the words "your" and "you're"

[Mommy]

You should've demanded a refund on the $.10 per gallon. Advertise one price and sell for another is not an ok thing to do.

A wopping $1.50 savings when there is a line of cars waiting to hoard gas before the supposed impending spike to $5.00. No thanks. Not worth it. By the way, we weren't hoarding gas. We were running on empty.

[James]

A wopping $1.50 savings when there is a line of cars waiting to hoard gas before the supposed impending spike to $5.00. No thanks. Not worth it. By the way, we weren't hoarding gas. We were running on empty.

It's not about the money, it's about the principle. All those lines of cars is all the more reason that they'll give you your money back even faster.

[dauss]

Well no shit, Sherlock. My point is it went up $.80 at the pump in one day. That's unheard of. I don't recall it doing that when Katrina hit. Additionally, the trickle down isn't going to happen right away. I mean, yes they closed refineries, but I imagine it would take 5-7 days to feel the effects of that all the way in GEORGIA. That's my point. We don't live in Texas.

By the way, there is a very big difference between the words "your" and "you're"

Wow, someone is upset. I guess my grammar skills suck when I'm drunk. By the way, your imagination is wrong.

Yesterday was an odd day. Since the US economy is in the shitter, and the rest of the world is doing so poorly, the demand is oil is still waning. Houston and the surrounding cities are where a majority of the refining capacity in the US is located. Hurricane Ike has forced refineries to shut down over 19% of the nation's refining capacity.
So, oil prices dropped(even dipping below that psychological $100/barrel mark during the day), while wholesale gasoline prices jumped. By the end of Thursday wholesale prices of gasoline topped $5/gallon.

Another thing that is happening is price gouging. Irrational people making a run on gas while shitting their pants has caused owners to price gouge to make some profits while the amount damage of Ike has done to refineries is unknown. The prices you mentioned hasn't been that bad compared to other states.


Gas Price Gouging Hits Hurricane States

[Mommy]

I guess that was my point all along.... that price gouging was going on. I know the situation in the gulf with the oil refineries, but like I said, it's always a trickle effect. It takes time for the prices to spike. 10 cents one day, 5 cents the next. Not over a dollar in a day in some places. Florida had gas prices of $3.89 when we drove through there 2 weeks ago. Now it's $6, and I guarantee that all happened midday. The news stations here said the change in price happened overnight. BULLSHIT. My husband put some gas in yesterday morning, and he got it at $3.79/gal. He was in a hurry to get to work, though, so he didn't fill up. He checked prices at 4:00 in the afternoon as he drove home, and it was 20 cents higher. An hour later it was 60 cents higher than that.

And you say some states are worse and then you post a picture of $4.50 in Kentucky... umm that's the same price it is here.

[James]

I filled up for $3.50 yesterday evening:)

[Oasis]

And you say some states are worse and then you post a picture of $4.50 in Kentucky... umm that's the same price it is here.

It's one picture, idiot.

[pysex]

1. Hurricane Ike. It shut down offshore rigs, refineries in houston, and supply lines. When you cut the nation off from a huge chunk of its life source, you're going to get a hike in prices.


2. Price gouging. Merchants will raise prices when they know certain items will be in high demand. In Houston, water and basic necessities sky rocketed in price so business could take advantage of the greater need (even though those items weren't in limited supply).


Hurricane Katrina didn't really effect the supply of oil from Texas so there wasn't an impact on that portion of the market. If you remember though, watermelons were hit pretty hard because from what I understand a lot of watermelons are grown in Louisiana.


I made sure to fill up last night when the price was at $3.59.

[Mommy]

It's one picture, idiot.

I'm glad you can count.

[Mommy]

If you all would read the news, you will find that prices in Texas only went up 3-5 cents a gallon. It's places like Florida, Georgia, the Carolinas, and other states in the southeast that are seeing the sudden hike. Do none of you understand trickle down economics? The federal government is looking into price gouging in our area. The price should have risen less than 7 cents because of the hurricane. The other 70+ cents is gouging.

[The Fanatic]

Fuck the deep south

[Oasis]

I have no problem with price gouging. Supply and demand. And the demand wouldn't be so high if idiot Americans wouldn't flock to gas stations like sheep trying to hoard gasoline because they're so concerned about saving an extra three dollars

My anger has nothing to do with the fact that I had to wait 15 minutes sitting at a gas station waiting for my friend to buy a 12 pack of beer and my burger got cold

[Mommy]

You all aren't bitching about it because it's not happening to you. Plain and simple. We had to get an apartment 47 miles from his work again because there is NOTHING closer. Fort Stewart main post is at the back end of a huge military reservation. The closest place is Hinesville which is a trailer park community. Next up is Richmond Hill which has no apartment communities. Rental houses begin at $1000 a month, not including bills. Next closest is Savannah which because of all the stop lights would take well over an hour to get to Fort Stewart. Finally, we have Port Wentworth, which is directly off I-95 so it's quick access to get to work... except that it's so far. Takes about 50 minutes to get to post though. Oh and did I mention that there is no military housing currently available, and the waiting list is somewhere between a year and two. So yeah, it's awesome having to pay $68 to fill up a car when we are forced to live so far.

Funny thing is, Shane's official military orders said (I'm paraphrasing) "Because of lack of on-post housing, soldiers and their families that are relocating to Fort Stewart can expect to live a considerable distance from post and expect to pay high rent and bills." Problem with that is BAH (a set amount they give soldiers each month to pay for off-post housing costs and is based off the area you live in) is considerably lower than it was at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, but rent is higher here AND we HAVE to commute. Before, we chose to live all the way in San Marcos because I was going to school.

So yeah, none of you are bitching (yet) because gas prices, while they are high, didn't skyrocket even more in a matter of hours like they did here.

[dauss]

I guess that was my point all along.... that price gouging was going on

You guess? Then what was this shit?

Seriously, anyone who votes for Obama can kiss our economy goodbye.

I know the situation in the gulf with the oil refineries, but like I said, it's always a trickle effect. It takes time for the prices to spike.10 cents one day, 5 cents the next. Not over a dollar in a day in some places.

Again, that would be due to price gouging. From what you have noticed, there is a trickle effect, but this is a special situation. There hasn't been a devastating hurricane in 3 years.
The price of crude goes up, refineries buy the oil which has to be shipped to them from the Middle East, then the oil is refined and sold to the wholesalers, and so on and so forth. That is the trend that you have noticed. Yes there is lag time due to all the shipping times, processing times, more shipping times, and as it moves on down to the consumer, the increased crude oil prices are passed along at each step.

I've already explained to you what has happened, and you still do not comprehend. I'll explain it further. Here's what's happening.

Refineries: We're shutting down production, there's no more gasoline from us anymore until we assess the damage after the hurricane passes through.
Wholesalers: Fuck me, *raise prices*

You notice how that step of buying crude oil and have it shipped across the mother fucking Atlantic and the time to refine the crude oil into gasoline was skipped? Was there lag time, there was, but fractionally shorter.

Florida had gas prices of $3.89 when we drove through there 2 weeks ago. Now it's $6, and I guarantee that all happened midday. The news stations here said the change in price happened overnight. BULLSHIT. My husband put some gas in yesterday morning, and he got it at $3.79/gal. He was in a hurry to get to work, though, so he didn't fill up. He checked prices at 4:00 in the afternoon as he drove home, and it was 20 cents higher. An hour later it was 60 cents higher than that.

No...it's $6 wherever that price gouging gas station is. Every single gas station in Florida isn't selling gasoline at $6/gallon. Just reading a few news articles from Florida local news, many stations are raising prices, but are at around $3.80 in some areas, which means other areas are lower.(http://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/28297219.html)

And you say some states are worse and then you post a picture of $4.50 in Kentucky... umm that's the same price it is here.

I didn't write a letter to ABC News "Hey, I want you to write a new article about gasoline price gouging, and please don't post pictures of prices where Jessica has been, because then it would make it look like I have a weaker argument on Techsans, kthxbye."

Here's a yes or no question for you.
Is $4.50 more than $4.49?

Yea.....fuck you.

[chook]

I payed 3.33 today for gas. Of course most our stuff comes from Yuma.

This is where we get our imported oil from
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petrole...ent/import.html

I was pretty Amazed that we get more oil from Libya than Russia.

[Mommy]

You guess? Then what was this shit?

... he doesn't want off-shore drilling, which while this hurricane would have shut down those drilling rigs, a hell of a lot more circumstances effect our prices now because we get our oil from the Middle East. Not a hard concept to comprehend, but you seem to be having trouble with just about everything I am saying.

Again, that would be due to price gouging. From what you have noticed, there is a trickle effect, but this is a special situation. There hasn't been a devastating hurricane in 3 years.
The price of crude goes up, refineries buy the oil which has to be shipped to them from the Middle East, then the oil is refined and sold to the wholesalers, and so on and so forth. That is the trend that you have noticed. Yes there is lag time due to all the shipping times, processing times, more shipping times, and as it moves on down to the consumer, the increased crude oil prices are passed along at each step.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. If the sudden HUGE spike in the gas was a DIRECT result from the hurricane then 1) It would have happened ALL OVER the U.S., not just in 5 or 6 states. (oh and by the way, gas hoarding is going on all over the nation.) 2) Gas would have gone up when new gas was DELIVERED to gas stations, not at periodic times during the day and by increments of $.20 at a time., every few hours.

I've already explained to you what has happened, and you still do not comprehend. I'll explain it further. Here's what's happening.

No... it's just that you refuse to read what I'm saying beyond me bitching that prices are high

You notice how that step of buying crude oil and have it shipped across the mother fucking Atlantic and the time to refine the crude oil into gasoline was skipped? Was there lag time, there was, but fractionally shorter.



No...it's $6 wherever that price gouging gas station is. Every single gas station in Florida isn't selling gasoline at $6/gallon. Just reading a few news articles from Florida local news, many stations are raising prices, but are at around $3.80 in some areas, which means other areas are lower.(http://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/28297219.html)


I didn't write a letter to ABC News "Hey, I want you to write a new article about gasoline price gouging, and please don't post pictures of prices where Jessica has been, because then it would make it look like I have a weaker argument on Techsans, kthxbye."

Here's a yes or no question for you.
Is $4.50 more than $4.49?

Yea.....fuck you.

News organizations are reporting that prices have gone exceptionally higher in the southeast. We have looked at a 50 mile strip here and it's all the same. And yes, we did drive a great distance yesterday. You can pull out a map and look at Hinesville, Pooler, Rincon, Port Wentworth, Tybee Island, Savannah, Richmond Hill.... those are all places we drove through yesterday while doing stuff and prices were on the rise in all those places.

As for your picture, I didn't right click or hover over it to see if it was one pic. For all I knew, you posted those pics consecutively. It doesn't matter, though. One cent doesn't make a difference. There were places that had it that price... and higher *shock*. You just said places had it more expensive than here so i shouldn't bitch. Yeah, we didn't have $6 gas here, but we did have prices even with a portion of that pic.

Quit trying to educate me on the fucking oil and gas industry because frankly, I feel we are saying the same thing at some times, but you keep arguing that we aren't and I already know everything you are saying. I happen to read quite a bit of news.


And if a part of this doesn't make sense, it's because I am currently playing with my son at the same time so I'm a tad distracted. Words could be missing, but the general idea of what I want to say is there.

[woody]

sue em

http://www.wjbf.com/midatlantic/jbf/news_i...09-12-0016.html

[Mommy]

thank god

[FORSAKENR320]

[James]

sue em

http://www.wjbf.com/midatlantic/jbf/news_i...09-12-0016.html

So much for capitalism.

[THECHICKEN]

So much for capitalism.

Yeah so much for the bad side of capatilism (gouging on a product people NEED) being outlawed like it has been for a long ass time now. Raising prices on tickle me elmos is ok because people don't need it to live... can't say that about gas

[James]

Yeah so much for the bad side of capatilism (gouging on a product people NEED) being outlawed like it has been for a long ass time now. Raising prices on tickle me elmos is ok because people don't need it to live... can't say that about gas

Just like everything else in life, you can't have the good without the bad or the good isn't so good. If you need it badly enough, then you can pay for it. If not, then you can wait until prices come down a bit. The hurricane has been on track to hit the gulf for over a week now. People should prepare and fill their tanks sooner than the day before it hits.

[Dogmeat]

I had a very long conversation today with several engineers and consultants from a very very very large oil company today ...

Let's just say that after talking with them, I've come to understand why this "speculation" thing is bullshit, and that according to some very very smart people we're already at peak oil.

EEK!

[THECHICKEN]

Just like everything else in life, you can't have the good without the bad or the good isn't so good. If you need it badly enough, then you can pay for it. If not, then you can wait until prices come down a bit. The hurricane has been on track to hit the gulf for over a week now. People should prepare and fill their tanks sooner than the day before it hits.

Actually yes you CAN have the good without the bad... hence the law

[dauss]

... he doesn't want off-shore drilling, which while this hurricane would have shut down those drilling rigs, a hell of a lot more circumstances effect our prices now because we get our oil from the Middle East.

So, lets pretend that the US had all the offshore drilling that McCain wants, and hurricane Ike did not affect any drilling rigs(but still forced refineries to shut down). What are we going to do with all that oil when refineries can't process it?

[Dogmeat]

So, lets pretend that the US had all the offshore drilling that McCain wants, and hurricane Ike did not affect any drilling rigs(but still forced refineries to shut down). What are we going to do with all that oil when refineries can't process it?

Turn it into petroleum-based personal lubricant ...

[Mommy]

So, lets pretend that the US had all the offshore drilling that McCain wants, and hurricane Ike did not affect any drilling rigs(but still forced refineries to shut down). What are we going to do with all that oil when refineries can't process it?

Read my post better. You'll still find my answer to that useless question.

[chook]

If we are at peak oil, I should get ready to move to Brazil.

[Dogmeat]

If we are at peak oil, I should get ready to move to Brazil.

I just thought it was pretty interesting what some of these guys had to say about it, and they definatley work for a company that would know let's say.

I have a job interview at a power plant on tuesday

[Psykopath]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080915/oil_prices.html

"Oil falls below $99 after Hurricane Ike leaves Texas oil installations largely undamaged."

=)

[FORSAKENR320]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080915/oil_prices.html

"Oil falls below $99 after Hurricane Ike leaves Texas oil installations largely undamaged."

=)

on aim, whore, since you're up late

[impala454]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080915/oil_prices.html

"Oil falls below $99 after Hurricane Ike leaves Texas oil installations largely undamaged."

=)

yeah, despite like 80% of houston having no power, all the refineries near us were back up and fully operational within hours of Ike's passing. good to see for sure.

[Spectatrix]

I have a job interview at a power plant on tuesday

Cool, let us know how it goes. Would it get you out of Utah?

[Mommy]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080915/oil_prices.html

"Oil falls below $99 after Hurricane Ike leaves Texas oil installations largely undamaged."

=)

Gas prices were still around $4.40 for regular unleaded here yesterday. Hopefully we see the price fall fast here in the next few days.

[Spectatrix]

Prices are around $3.50 here.

[woody]

3.60-3.75 in the EP

[pysex]

3.57 a few hours ago here

[Psykopath]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices

" SINGAPORE - Oil prices plummeted Tuesday in Asia, falling briefly below $92 a barrel as investors feared the U.S. credit crisis that brought down brokerage giant Lehman Brothers will drag on global economic growth and restrain demand for crude.

Light, sweet crude for October delivery tumbled $3.59 to $92.12 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange midafternoon in Singapore. It briefly fell as low as $91.54. Overnight, the contract dropped $5.47 to settle at $95.71, the first time oil closed below $100 since March 4..."

Keep on dropping!

[fingercuffs]

I was worried Ike would raise gas prices, but the past couple of days we've had the lowest prices I've seen in a couple months here in norcal. Relief++

[Mommy]

I don't know what gas prices currently are, but a neighbor told me he drove to South Carolina yesterday to get gas because it was $.60 cheaper. S. Carolina is just up 95 a few minutes from us so it's not far. Georgia has high gas prices all over the state... not just in isolated areas. Apparently, they are also sending police officers out here to local gas stations ordering them to lower the price. Again, this is just what a neighbor told me.

[Mommy]

I think it's absolute BS that the price of a barrel of oil has dropped 40% since it peaked in July, yet we are still paying anywhere from $3.30/gal to $3.80/gal. Yay for a weakening global economy.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081006/oil_prices.html

[Hartmann]

What was going on in the Southeast the last few weeks was directly related to Ike. Atlanta and 52 other counties require a special type of fuel with a regulated amount of sulfur. The plants that supply that fuel are in southeast Texas. They were down for at least a week and when they came back up they focused on supplying fuel to the immediate area, plus, one of the sulfur recovery units was knocked out by the storm.

This lead to an extreme shortage of fuel in the Southeast with lines of cars waiting for gas.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/sto..._explainer.html

So it wasn't gouging per se, instead it was extreme lack of supply.

With the market the way it is, I can see prices continuing down to around $70/barrel.

[Mommy]

What was going on in the Southeast the last few weeks was directly related to Ike. Atlanta and 52 other counties require a special type of fuel with a regulated amount of sulfur. The plants that supply that fuel are in southeast Texas. They were down for at least a week and when they came back up they focused on supplying fuel to the immediate area, plus, one of the sulfur recovery units was knocked out by the storm.

This lead to an extreme shortage of fuel in the Southeast with lines of cars waiting for gas.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/sto..._explainer.html

So it wasn't gouging per se, instead it was extreme lack of supply.

With the market the way it is, I can see prices continuing down to around $70/barrel.

Wow... that is the first I have ever heard of that. Thanks, Stephan. Sheesh, the media really is useless. I don't think I heard a single story about that. All I kept hearing around here was "price gouging"

[Epic]

i filled up in south austin for 3.05

[Mommy]

I think the national average is $3.38/gal yet the price of a barrel is below $88.00

[jwttu]

in denton gas was selling for $2.99

[Mommy]

Less than 2 months later and now gas is only $1.89.... WOOT

[Psykopath]

Less than 2 months later and now gas is only $1.89.... WOOT

word.

I'm loving it big time. Makes it so much less expensive to travel to fights.

[Dogmeat]

word.

I'm loving it big time. Makes it so much less expensive to travel to fights.

Yeah it's almost like I'm really actually getting 26 miles per gallon in my pickup truck now

[THECHICKEN]

$1.93... filled up for $22 AWESOME

[Dogmeat]

yeah I'm actually pretty happy I got a big block instead of a diesel right now

[dauss]

It only took a global recession to bring down the gas prices. Worst recession since the S&L crisis of the 1980s, $6,000,000,000,000 of wealth lost, 2 endless wars, nearly 1.2 million jobs lost this year alone, 6.5% unemployment rate, etc, etc.

The "American" car companies, Chrysler, Ford, and GM are now begging for help. Burning through billions of dollars and possibly running out of the money in the first half of 2009 and posting millions of dollars of losses. When gas hit over $2/gallon or the first time in Q2 of 2004, the Big 3 automakers didn’t do shit. The Big 3 didn't do shit when gas surpassed $3/gallon in Q4 of 2005, going as far as saying that high gasoline prices aren't stopping Americans from buying trucks and SUVs. You got burned once when gas hit $2/gallon, burned a second time when gas hit $3/gallon, now you guys are getting slaughtered after gas hit $4/gallon. The collapse of the Big 3 automakers will cost over a million jobs in the economy, but not sure if they need saving with their poor decisions they've made in the pass and the utilization of worthless union workers.

The economy has always come out a recession, but it depends on how long it will last. OPEC has announced cuts of 1.5 million barrels a day during an emergency meeting last month. A report at the end of the month will show if the cartel has actually enforced the cut in production. OPEC wants to keep it between a "reasonable" $70 to $90/barrel range, but with the recession oil prices has fell even further regardless. The OPEC president is reportedly saying that more cuts are likely to "stabilize" the price of oil. Oil did dip below $60/barrel in trading last week. Prices will increase, and this is no time to terminate or delay any research into alternative fuels not made from food, biodiesel, fuel efficiency, nuclear energy and renewable energy.

Enjoy it while you can, but "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

[THECHICKEN]

Here comes debbie downer

[chook]

I disagree with David on some moral issues, but he is pretty close to right on this.

[Hartmann]

It only took a global recession to bring down the gas prices. Worst recession since the S&L crisis of the 1980s, $6,000,000,000,000 of wealth lost, 2 endless wars, nearly 1.2 million jobs lost this year alone, 6.5% unemployment rate, etc, etc.

The "American" car companies, Chrysler, Ford, and GM are now begging for help. Burning through billions of dollars and possibly running out of the money in the first half of 2009 and posting millions of dollars of losses. When gas hit over $2/gallon or the first time in Q2 of 2004, the Big 3 automakers didn’t do shit. The Big 3 didn't do shit when gas surpassed $3/gallon in Q4 of 2005, going as far as saying that high gasoline prices aren't stopping Americans from buying trucks and SUVs. You got burned once when gas hit $2/gallon, burned a second time when gas hit $3/gallon, now you guys are getting slaughtered after gas hit $4/gallon. The collapse of the Big 3 automakers will cost over a million jobs in the economy, but not sure if they need saving with their poor decisions they've made in the pass and the utilization of worthless union workers.

The economy has always come out a recession, but it depends on how long it will last. OPEC has announced cuts of 1.5 million barrels a day during an emergency meeting last month. A report at the end of the month will show if the cartel has actually enforced the cut in production. OPEC wants to keep it between a "reasonable" $70 to $90/barrel range, but with the recession oil prices has fell even further regardless. The OPEC president is reportedly saying that more cuts are likely to "stabilize" the price of oil. Oil did dip below $60/barrel in trading last week. Prices will increase, and this is no time to terminate or delay any research into alternative fuels not made from food, biodiesel, fuel efficiency, nuclear energy and renewable energy.

Enjoy it while you can, but "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

The fact that OPEC announced a cut in production and the futures markets continued to drop seals the deal that their cut will not affect the price until people start driving more, so I completely agree that exploration, production, alt-fuels, and better vehicles is the way to go. The Chevron CEO was preaching this a few days ago.

Folks will settle back down to their $1.50/gallon gas and get complacent, then the price will shoot back up to $4.00. I have a feeling that when Obama takes office, he will bailout the automakers but only with stipulations on what they produce and fuel economy.

[blaarg]

What are gas prices like now? Still under $2? Less than the zero dollars I currently pay for riding my bike everywhere.

I am enjoying the $$ --> Euro conversion nowadays! YAY for the US economy being in a shithole yet the $ improving. Someone with an economics degree please explain this to me.

[Mommy]

$1.77 here

[woody]

el paso is begining to drop to about $2.

some places are still in the 2.20-2.30's

[Spectatrix]

Austin is under $2. I think it's getting down to about $1.80, actually.

[moebary]

i saw $1.73 yesterday

[dauss]

What are gas prices like now? Still under $2? Less than the zero dollars I currently pay for riding my bike everywhere.

I am enjoying the $$ --> Euro conversion nowadays! YAY for the US economy being in a shithole yet the $ improving. Someone with an economics degree please explain this to me.

Even though the US economy is in the shitter, other countires are in even more trouble. With investors pulling out the stocks and seeking the safety of the US Treasury, this boosts the value of the dollar. Helps imports, but hurts exports.

[dauss]

Oil up 9% today on weak dollar.

[Dogmeat]

Gah @ the ickyness of the world! GAH!!!! GAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!

[dauss]

Looks like Hartmann is right. Price of oil will conrinue to fall until people start driving more. Oil hit below $43/barrel this morning. Analysts are thinking that oil will hit $25 /barrel. Who knows how much longer this recession will last.

6.7% unemployment, highest level since 1993.
533,000 jobs lost in November, the most since 1974.
1,900,000 jobs lost since December 2007.
4,090,000 people collecting unemployment benefits, highest since 1982.

With all these people without jobs to drive to and no money to go shopping with, looks like gas has a lot more to drop.

Also thank you GM for that huge push for E85. I saw gas for $1.59 here in Colorado, and E85 is about the same price, but I don't think that anyone is going to go for iE85 if your fuel economy with E85 drops by up to 28%

[Billy]

Ethanol is such a crock of shit.

[Spectatrix]

Yep.

[dauss]

it depends what you use it for.
Ethanol as a way to ween ourselves off foreign oil, crock of shit.
Ethanol as a cleaner fuel, crock of shit.
Ethanol as street legal race fuel, awesome. I'm seriously considering to getting tuned for E85 on my car because you make a lot more power and torque.

[Billy]

it depends what you use it for.
Ethanol as a way to ween ourselves off foreign oil, crock of shit.
Ethanol as a cleaner fuel, crock of shit.
Ethanol as street legal race fuel, awesome. I'm seriously considering to getting tuned for E85 on my car because you make a lot more power and torque.

From Wikipedia:

Combustion of ethanol in an internal combustion engine yields many of the products of incomplete combustion that are produced by gasoline and significantly larger amounts of formaldehyde and related species such as formalin, acetaldehyde, etc..[40] This leads to a significantly larger photochemical reactivity that generates much more ground level ozone.[41] This data has been assembled into The Clean Fuels Report comparison of fuel emissions[42] and shows that ethanol exhaust generates 2.14 times as much ozone as does gasoline exhaust. When this is added into the custom "Localised Pollution Index (LPI)" of The Clean Fuels Report the local pollution, i.e. that which contributes to smog, is 1.7 on a scale where gasoline is 1.0 and higher numbers signify greater pollution. This issue has been formalised by the California Air Resouces Board in 2008[43] by recognising control standards for formaldehydes et al as an emissions control group much like the conventional NOx and Reactive Organic Gases (ROGs).

Ethanol, in many ways, is much more 'dirty' than hydrocarbons (oil). It has less energy than gasoline, which means you must consume larger amounts of it in order to go the same distance. This is bad because you get less energy for the same weight, even further reducing ethanol's efficiency.

And though Ethanol is a way to ween ourselves off of foreign oil, it is a much better solution to just drill our own oil to ween ourselves off of foreign oil. Weening ourselves off of foreign oil ultimately must happen, but now may not be the right time to start consuming our own resources. But that is entirely a different argument.

[Dogmeat]

Ethanol is wonderful because the Democrats say so and they have the messiah on their side and are going to save the world.

[Hartmann]

Looks like Hartmann is right. Price of oil will conrinue to fall until people start driving more. Oil hit below $43/barrel this morning. Analysts are thinking that oil will hit $25 /barrel. Who knows how much longer this recession will last.

6.7% unemployment, highest level since 1993.
533,000 jobs lost in November, the most since 1974.
1,900,000 jobs lost since December 2007.
4,090,000 people collecting unemployment benefits, highest since 1982.

With all these people without jobs to drive to and no money to go shopping with, looks like gas has a lot more to drop.

Also thank you GM for that huge push for E85. I saw gas for $1.59 here in Colorado, and E85 is about the same price, but I don't think that anyone is going to go for iE85 if your fuel economy with E85 drops by up to 28%

I was reading the $25/barrel reports and while I don't doubt oil will get down to that level, I think it will be short lived. China has to yet to have this economic dip really hit them but if it does and it's as bad as it has been in other countries, $25 is a great estimate.

We are at a point now where businesses have to make critical decisions, they can survive or they can attempt to innovate and possibly fail.