Is Sexism still a big issue in the U.S.? Options

[Inferia]

I guess it is pretty obvious where I get this subject line. I read a paper awhile ago, which I re-read later called "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack" by Peggy McIntosh. Anyway, the paper dealt with race, but in the beginning she touched upon the "male privilege".

"... I have often noticed men's unwillingness to grant that they are overprivileged, even though they may grant that women are disadvantaged. They may say they will work to women's statues, in the society, the university, or the curriculum, but they can't or won't support the idea of lessening men's. Denials that amount to taboos surround the subject of advantages that men gain from women's disadvantages. These denials protect male privilege from being fully acknwledge, lessened, or ended... as male are taught not to recognize male privilege... We in women's studies work to reveal male privilege and ask men to give up some of their power... After I realized the extent to which men wok from a base of unacknowledged privilege, I understood that much of their oppressiveness was unconscious..."

* Note that this paper was written in the late 1980s, and the excess ellipses is because it's an article on race which I tried to take out.

There were complaints from the Hillary camp that she lost because she is female, that (some) people recognize that it is difficulty for a biracial candidate to run for president, while she a female does not get the same recognition. That there is still a double standard on how we view females. Sorry this is not very well expressed, I hope you catch my drift.

I can't figure out how to make this into a poll, so...

[Mommy]

Some were saying Hillary lost because she tried too hard to avoid the topic of being a woman. Had she focused on woman empowerment, she may have won the nomination.

[impala454]

I don't think it's a big issue. I think both sides are fairly equally sexist.

[Mommy]

Boys are smelly

[woody]

hillary lost cause she's a power-hungry douche
take teresa heinz in 04, no one liked her cause she was a douche too, that cost her husband some pts

doesn't matter what sex you, just cause you're a female or some other minority doesn't make you worth anything. at some point that shit goes out the window and you gotta rely on what you know and what you can get done

[Dogmeat]

if you're a woman or a minority you're automatically gaurenteed getting a job from virtually any government agency or large corporation you're even slightly REMOTLEY qualified for ... so no, I don't think women are disadvantaged at all.

[impala454]

I think Condoleeza Rice would make a good Prez or VP

[chook]

I think Condoleeza Rice would make a good Prez or VP

It would help the republicans seem to not be bigots!


Seriously in that paper, I hate when people want to bring other people down instead of themselves up. The whole crabs in a bucket thing.

[Mommy]

It would help the republicans seem to not be bigots!

and CNN is reporting that Obama is looking into ex military leaders for a VP... funny

[nickluto]

I would say that the problem with sexism in this country is that anytime a woman trys, but fails, to achieve something it is used as proof of institutionalized sexism.

Hillary Clinton came the closer than any woman to getting to be the president, even though she did not get her party's nomination. She had a great shot at it, but didn't quite make it.

Is the mark of a truly sexually egalitarian society the occurance that every time a woman tries to do anything a man has done, they have to succeed on the first try? If she would have won the nomination she would be heralded as "breaking into the boys club" and "paving the way for all women" and all that. But if she loses, it's proof of sexism.

You're damned if you do and you're damned if you dont. Either way you get a bunch of hairy arm pitted, bleeding hatchet-wound femenazis screaming about how men have been subjugating women since the beginning of time.

Edwards lost, Romney lost, Guliani Lost, Thompson lost...all at the same objective and before Hillary did and not one peep...Maybe women just need to learn how to be more graceful losers.

Regardless if she won the nomination or not, she still did a lot for women in politics and government. Why spoil all of that with butt-hurt whining?

[Psykopath]

I think Condoleeza Rice would make a good Prez or VP

fuck
NO

[FORSAKENR320]

Edwards lost, Romney lost, Guliani Lost, Thompson lost...all at the same objective and before Hillary did and not one peep...Maybe women just need to learn how to be more graceful losers.

Regardless if she won the nomination or not, she still did a lot for women in politics and government. Why spoil all of that with butt-hurt whining?

yea, hillary was NOT a graceful loser from her concession speech, and the butt hurt whining (i also see as her concession speech) seriously validated sexism a little to me when watching it. it's wrong, but hey, i really don't see women leading by example to be equals to men. for every progressive female i meet trying to break out of the mold, i run into 10 that blindly reinforce the female stereotypes.

[Seeker]

get back in the kitchen!

[impala454]

fuck
NO

how come?

[Seeker]

how come?

maybe because she's an evil neo-con who only got in the bush-cabinet due to affirmative action and to make the republican party look like they care about blacks?

[Psykopath]

maybe because she's an evil neo-con who only got in the bush-cabinet due to affirmative action and to make the republican party look like they care about blacks?

ding ding

Plus she's a lying cunt (like most Bush administration cronies).

[impala454]

what great reasoning. it's like we're in a 6th grade vote for the class president election. "don't vote for her she's stupid ewwwwwwwwwwwww". although I suppose I've grown to expect these types of responses from you guys. I'd be shocked if Lance made a post about a Republican without using the word neo-con, or Psyko making a post about a Republican without calling them a liar.

[Psykopath]

what great reasoning. it's like we're in a 6th grade vote for the class president election. "don't vote for her she's stupid ewwwwwwwwwwwww". although I suppose I've grown to expect these types of responses from you guys. I'd be shocked if Lance made a post about a Republican without using the word neo-con, or Psyko making a post about a Republican without calling them a liar.

This

coming from you...





...My ribs hurt from the lolz.

[impala454]

whatever that's supposed to mean

[Psykopath]

whatever that's supposed to mean

2a
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dense

[impala454]

uhh... mmk. these exchanges are so retarded:

Me: statement, replublican, blah
You: durrrrrrrrrrrrrrr that's stupid
Me: why
You: OMG REPUBLIKAN = LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR
Me: you always say that
You: DURRRRRRR UR DUM I'm laughing HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Me: ?

[Seeker]

uhh... mmk. these exchanges are so retarded:

Me: statement, replublican, blah
You: durrrrrrrrrrrrrrr that's stupid
Me: why
You: OMG REPUBLIKAN = LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR
Me: you always say that
You: DURRRRRRR UR DUM I'm laughing HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR
Me: ?

exchange republican for democrat in that post then the role would be reversed

[impala454]

nope

[Psykopath]

nope

...

again:
2a
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dense

[FORSAKENR320]

usual exchange::

someone:: the sky is blue

impala:: nope, you're dumb it's green

someone:: here's 5 valid documents on why it's blue, and a picture of the sky

impala:: one of those 5 documents isn't cited right, i don't trust the author therefore all of your documents and evidence is wrong. the sky is green

someone #2:: no... the sky is blue, here is another more accurate source of info.

impala:: la la la! i'm not listening! one of those documents was wrong i'm right!

dogmeat:: cumsluts sextits

lance:: you're all brainwashed the government knows the sky is really red but wants you to think it's blue

impala:: lance agrees with me

someone:: no he doesn't

brandon:: (posts unrelated disturbing or humorous picture)

[Mommy]

I think we all suck.

[impala454]

brandon:: (posts unrelated disturbing or humorous stupid picture that only he thinks is funny)

fixed

[impala454]

It would be interesting if the apes would tell me why they feel Rice wouldn't make a good president (at least, in grown up terms).

[Dogmeat]

usual exchange::

someone:: the sky is blue

impala:: nope, you're dumb it's green

someone:: here's 5 valid documents on why it's blue, and a picture of the sky

impala:: one of those 5 documents isn't cited right, i don't trust the author therefore all of your documents and evidence is wrong. the sky is green

someone #2:: no... the sky is blue, here is another more accurate source of info.

impala:: la la la! i'm not listening! one of those documents was wrong i'm right!

dogmeat:: cumsluts sextits

lance:: you're all brainwashed the government knows the sky is really red but wants you to think it's blue

impala:: lance agrees with me

someone:: no he doesn't

brandon:: (posts unrelated disturbing or humorous picture)

you forgot ...

Dogmeat: Barbaric Midevil-con Rush Limbaugh / Oderus Urungus pornopolitical masturbatory anti-enviro-relegious-brainwashing statement.

[Billy]

someone:: here's 5 valid documents on why it's blue, and a picture of the sky

Not sure where that happened in this thread.

[Dogmeat]

Not sure where that happened in this thread.

Oh I'm sure I could find some "wage gap" bullshittery if you really wanted me to ...

[Billy]

Oh I'm sure I could find some "wage gap" bullshittery if you really wanted me to ...

I'm refering to the comments about Rice.

[nickluto]

uhh... mmk. these exchanges are so retarded:

welcome to techsans !!

[chook]

and CNN is reporting that Obama is looking into ex military leaders for a VP... funny

That would probably pull some middle road people over. I actually think its a good idea.

[Mommy]

That would probably pull some middle road people over. I actually think its a good idea.

yeah... if you are an Obama supporter...

[chook]

yeah... if you are an Obama supporter...

as scary as it is, I think he is going to get elected.

[Mommy]

as scary as it is, I think he is going to get elected.

don't speak such profanity

[Melanie]

Psht... I've been on the Obama train for 15 months. So whatev. Just like McCain would pick Romney or Jindal if he wants some Conservative power.

And back to the topic, I don't think its a big issue, but it is an issue none-the-less. Women still make less than men. Women still have those pesky spawn to keep them from being productive in the workplace during maternity leave.

[Mommy]

Psht... I've been on the Obama train for 15 months. So whatev. Just like McCain would pick Romney or Jindal if he wants some Conservative power.

And back to the topic, I don't think its a big issue, but it is an issue none-the-less. Women still make less than men. Women still have those pesky spawn to keep them from being productive in the workplace during maternity leave.

oh I'm so sick feminism crap. Women can make just as much as men if they would keep their silly heads out of the clouds when it comes to boys. I'm not saying this regarding you. I'm just saying if women continne to make themselves out to be the victims then they will be. And carrying a child is a wonderful gift by the way. I don't think men could handle it. That's why God made it so women do heh

[impala454]

I believe the person on these message boards with the highest income is a female

[Spectatrix]

I believe the person on these message boards with the highest income is a female

Who, me? No, I think Dogmeat makes more. Possibly a couple others too.

Though I'm beginning to wonder whether a high salary is worth being BORED OUT OF MY FUCKING SKULL. I mean, seriously, this is getting ridiculous.

This post has been edited by Spectatrix: Jun 12 2008, 10:06 AM

[impala454]

I'm beginning to wonder whether a high salary is worth being BORED OUT OF MY FUCKING SKULL and driving 70 miles/day.

[Dogmeat]

Who, me? No, I think Dogmeat makes more. Possibly a couple others too.

Though I'm beginning to wonder whether a high salary is worth being BORED OUT OF MY FUCKING SKULL. I mean, seriously, this is getting ridiculous.

I don't know if I do or not ... my base salary is $68,000 a year right now but I also average ~$1,000 more a month based on my "day rate" so to speak, but latley that's been bombed because I've hardley been working at all.

I get $100 a day if we don't totally screw up a frac job up which usually we don't do. Some months I'll work 19 of my 21 days so I get a big bonus that month, but latley I've been lucky if I've been out 5 days a month

That's why I've been online so much latley

The $75k I quoted was based on me assuming that over the course of the year I'd average 10 days out @ $100 a day for the month for the whole year, or at least roughly ...

Believe me I know what you mean about being bored out of your skull ... I've literally been begging for more work...not shit work though, I wanna actually do something challenging .... unfortunatley they have twice as many engineers as they need and generally speaking this job is so easy it's just retarded, so he pretty well just gives the guys who have been here the longest all the work and the rest of us get screwed

[impala454]

unfortunatley they have twice as many engineers as they need

Yeah I think this is the problem in a lot of places. I think companies know that good engineers are hard to find and want to hold onto the ones they have rather than having to go out and find someone when the shit hits the fan.

oh and not to try to "top" anyone but I guess in terms of total income I'd have a slight advantage in that I own a rental property that brings in $1000/month. and my salary here is $65k, so roughly $77k here. although obviously there are costs involved with it as well.

[Dogmeat]

Yeah I think this is the problem in a lot of places. I think companies know that good engineers are hard to find and want to hold onto the ones they have rather than having to go out and find someone when the shit hits the fan.

Dude it's a fucking joke with the company I work for.

My "mentor" doesn't even have an engineering degree ... he has a fucking "environmental biology" degree .... and now all of a sudden, he's an "engineer" .. He's a complete idiot too.... I think of the 17 or so "engineers" in my office only 10 of us have actual engineering degrees and only two of us have passed the FE exam.

My job is a fucking joke.

[impala454]

hahah... yeah one of our web developers has a ESS degree....

[chook]

Dude it's a fucking joke with the company I work for.

My "mentor" doesn't even have an engineering degree ... he has a fucking "environmental biology" degree .... and now all of a sudden, he's an "engineer" .. He's a complete idiot too.... I think of the 17 or so "engineers" in my office only 10 of us have actual engineering degrees and only two of us have passed the FE exam.

My job is a fucking joke.

I think some people just pick it up easily and don't need the engineering degrees. Then again, some of the bosses up the chain are lacking in basic logic.

[Dogmeat]

I think some people just pick it up easily and don't need the engineering degrees. Then again, some of the bosses up the chain are lacking in basic logic.

It's easy to pick it up easily ... it's not even really an engineering job. At least not at the level we're doing it at. We aren't developing anything, we're just mindlessly doing paper work. It's an "engineering" job in the same sense driving a train down the railroad tracks is albeit maybe slightly more complicated at times. I dunno, I understand why it is the way it is, but at the same time it's rediculous to have 12 fucking frac engineers for 3 crews. It shouldn't take more than 6.

[impala454]

I think some people just pick it up easily and don't need the engineering degrees. Then again, some of the bosses up the chain are lacking in basic logic.

and just to add to that, hiring friends, family, favor hires, etc

[Spectatrix]

It's easy to pick it up easily ... it's not even really an engineering job. At least not at the level we're doing it at. We aren't developing anything, we're just mindlessly doing paper work. It's an "engineering" job in the same sense driving a train down the railroad tracks is albeit maybe slightly more complicated at times. I dunno, I understand why it is the way it is, but at the same time it's rediculous to have 12 fucking frac engineers for 3 crews. It shouldn't take more than 6.

That's how my last job was. Our work was 95% paperwork and 5% doing cookie-cutter CAD work to draw up new gas lines.

This job... guh, it mainly consists of writing matlab & shell scripts to accomplish the data processing jobs they want me to do. I'm supposed to get involved in some more work eventually, but I have to jump through security hoops first. Worst is my boss constantly saying things like "yeah, we're getting you ramped up" and "enjoy your free time while you have it". It's been 8 fucking months -- so much for a steep learning curve.

[Dogmeat]

That's how my last job was. Our work was 95% paperwork and 5% doing cookie-cutter CAD work to draw up new gas lines.

This job... guh, it mainly consists of writing matlab & shell scripts to accomplish the data processing jobs they want me to do. I'm supposed to get involved in some more work eventually, but I have to jump through security hoops first. Worst is my boss constantly saying things like "yeah, we're getting you ramped up" and "enjoy your free time while you have it". It's been 8 fucking months -- so much for a steep learning curve.

I had a glimmer of hope in my job 4 or 5 months ago when I got to work on rolling out this new transverse wellbore temeprature sensing technology then using the temperature data to correlate fluid flow data and stuff ... there were three of us here that worked our asses off to try to get them to test it out up here, in part so we would have something fun to do ... but that all got kabashed cuz it would have cost too much money

I dunno. I've applied for a few jobs back in Wyoming, we'll see what happens.

[Spectatrix]

I feel kinda bad because I'm with a really good company -- I'm just frustrated by the lack of work. I think when I get back from vacation, I'm gonna talk to my boss about it. His previous comments are kind of discouraging, but I think if I keep asking for more work, maybe I'll eventually get it. And if he won't track down any for me, I'll ask other folks if they need help.

[Dogmeat]

I feel kinda bad because I'm with a really good company -- I'm just frustrated by the lack of work. I think when I get back from vacation, I'm gonna talk to my boss about it. His previous comments are kind of discouraging, but I think if I keep asking for more work, maybe I'll eventually get it. And if he won't track down any for me, I'll ask other folks if they need help.

Be careful with that .... I'm sure your situation is much different than mine, but when I started asking my boss for more work I got "Ok, well, I know they need help cleaning out an acid transport over in the main yard..."

No.

Heh

[Spectatrix]

Haha, yeah, I'll be careful. I am trying to finagle my way onto the diving team here. They do work at our testing tank on-site and a testing station out at Lake Travis. It'd be a good distraction from office work.

[impala454]

My work is pretty much feast or famine as well, be careful you don't load up during the famine and then get yourself in over your head during the feast

[Billy]

You guys should come work with me. There is plenty of work for everyone here.

[Testm0nkey]

wow this thread makes me really proud of my honey =)

awww feminism

[chook]

wow this thread makes me really proud of my honey =)

awww feminism

why is that?

[Oasis]

This thread proves to me one thing, if nothing else: apparently, you can hook a desktop computer up in the goddamned kitchen