The current state of the airline industry Options

[Hartmann]

Things are getting really ugly, really quick.

United has reduced capacity, is cutting staff, and is killing of their low-cost carrier TED.
US Airways has not fulfilled its order for two planes that could fly their new route to China, so they'll lose the route and they're reducing capacity.
The Delta/Northwest Merger isn't complete yet, so who knows the outcome.
Continental announced this morning that they are reducing capacity and cutting some staffing.
ExpressJet (who Continental employs to fly their little jets) is on the verge of Ch11.
Southwest has raised fares considerably.
JetBlue has cut a number of routes.
AA is nickel and diming customers to make up the costs.


yikes.

[Oasis]

Everything is getting worse in this country (cue impala to come in and defend America as being as good as it was ten years ago, even though it's not)

It's a trickle down effect and it's speeding up even faster than I thought.

[impala454]

I didn't realize the airlines constituted "everything". Melodrama at its finest.

[Hartmann]

I didn't realize the airlines constituted "everything". Melodrama at its finest.

Airlines aren't everything but they're a good representation of what is going on.

With less people flying it is indicative of people spending less on leisure items. In turn, the airlines will cut flights and raise prices, causing even fewer people to fly.

[impala454]

With less people flying it is indicative of people spending less on leisure items.

You've gotta be kidding me. How the hell can you correlate flying with spending less on leisure items???

[Hartmann]

You've gotta be kidding me. How the hell can you correlate flying with spending less on leisure items???

Flying, vacationing, etc. is a leisure item. You aren't required to have it and you do it at your leisure.

No, it isn't a TV or a Playstation but travel is considered leisure. People not traveling as much = people spending less on travel = less spent on leisure items.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=90957062

I fail to see why that is hard to understand.

[impala454]

Because flying isn't the only form of leisure. Nor is it exclusively a form of leisure. It's dumb to analyze leisure as a whole based on one form of it. That'd be like saying "McDonald's profits are down so everyone must be spending less on eating out."

in fact, I'd venture to guess than lowering profits in the airline industry would be more due to businesses flying less than vacationers.

[Hartmann]

Because flying isn't the only form of leisure. Nor is it exclusively a form of leisure. It's dumb to analyze leisure as a whole based on one form of it. That'd be like saying "McDonald's profits are down so everyone must be spending less on eating out."

in fact, I'd venture to guess than lowering profits in the airline industry would be more due to businesses flying less than vacationers.

Business flying is up actually. I'll have to find the report.

Considering fares are up nearly 150% since last year, less people are flying, period. I've had to fly the last few weeks and haven't seen as many vacationers on my flights, that's for sure.

It is just one indicator (and a pretty darn good one) when the amount of leisure travelers go down. It's the same type of thing when there are less drivers on the road during a holiday. I dunno, seems like common sense to me.

Equating McD's to flying is not a good example. It would be more like flying and a "nicer restaurant". Less people eating at mid-priced restaurants is a sign of something.

[impala454]

It is just one indicator (and a pretty darn good one) when the amount of leisure travelers go down.

that's fine. leisure travel I can agree with.

[THECHICKEN]

Everything is getting worse in this country (cue impala to come in and defend America as being as good as it was ten years ago, even though it's not)

It's a trickle down effect and it's speeding up even faster than I thought.

and it happened

[impala454]

Well thats good that he at least saw how stupid his statement would be in advance.

[chook]

Cost of fuel is hurting them. America can't stay afloat long with the price of oil.

[impala454]

It's going back down. We'll be fine. Of course, you don't see any news when oil prices start going down. They've gone down nearly $10/barrel in the past week or so. Oh but when they go up every media outlet out there is predicting doom. It was the top story the whole time it was increasing. Now go to CNN.com or MSNBC.com, you can't even find the words "oil" or "gas" on the front page. Gimme a break. I swear people are sheep.

[Psykopath]

When the price of oil goes up, the price at the pump goes up really quick.
When the price of oil goes down, the price of the pump stays the same... (or at least it has this time around...dropped $10 a barrel but it's still hovering around $3.89 a gallon in Lubbock)

[impala454]

Nah... you just see it that way because you hate the current prices. It simply lags the price of oil. Remember when oil shot up like $20/barrel but gas didn't go up all that much? Well now it's reflecting those prices. It lags because the gas price reflects the oil price paid at the time the gas was made.

[Psykopath]

Nah... you just see it that way because you hate the current prices. It simply lags the price of oil. Remember when oil shot up like $20/barrel but gas didn't go up all that much? Well now it's reflecting those prices. It lags because the gas price reflects the oil price paid at the time the gas was made.

sure....I didn't see all those daily raises on that United sign coinciding with upward swings in oil prices.

Silly me, I must've been hallucinating!

[impala454]

you said prices at the pump vs price of oil and mentioned gas price in lubbock... now you're talking about united... pick one!

[THECHICKEN]

Impala:

[Psykopath]

you said prices at the pump vs price of oil and mentioned gas price in lubbock... now you're talking about united... pick one!

....

goddamn you're dense.

[impala454]

Not my fault you can't communicate

[Hartmann]

Nah... you just see it that way because you hate the current prices. It simply lags the price of oil. Remember when oil shot up like $20/barrel but gas didn't go up all that much? Well now it's reflecting those prices. It lags because the gas price reflects the oil price paid at the time the gas was made.

I think it will take a little bit longer this time. The refineries are going to want to recoup some of their losses.

[impala454]

losses?

[Hartmann]

losses?

Yes. Downstream companies, or companies that only refine, have been struggling paying $130 / barrel. Like I posted in the other thread, refining is not the industry you want to be in when the price of a barrel surges. Selling the stuff at the pump is not a cash positive industry.

Some of the major companies (Valero comes to mind) have been able to reduce the pain but they have red on their sheets and they're wanting to get rid of that.

[Psykopath]

Not my fault you can't communicate

You're the only one that didn't understand my post.
And notice how others in several other threads make the same comment about how you are dense & fail to understand logic that doesn't fit your agenda.

[impala454]

Dude, you said something that didn't make sense, in reference to auto gasoline prices, then I called you on it, then you talk about airline fuel. Don't act like I'm the one not understanding or accuse me of some "agenda" (wtf is this a damn soap opera?).

And what you were saying doesnt make sense anyways. Look at the historical prices of oil & gas. Compared to this time last year gas has increased like 20% while oil has increased 100%. If you think gas prices climb faster than oil your nuts.

[Psykopath]

Dude, you said something that didn't make sense, in reference to auto gasoline prices, then I called you on it, then you talk about airline fuel. Don't act like I'm the one not understanding or accuse me of some "agenda" (wtf is this a damn soap opera?).

And what you were saying doesnt make sense anyways. Look at the historical prices of oil & gas. Compared to this time last year gas has increased like 20% while oil has increased 100%. If you think gas prices climb faster than oil your nuts.

UNITED as in fucking United Supermarkets....

Jesus tap-dancing CHRIST!

[impala454]

Ahh...

I miss the ol' 'ted

Still though, oil goes up way faster than gas

[chook]

oil going 135 today. I am hoping that it drops after the olympics.

[Psykopath]

oil going 135 today. I am hoping that it drops after the olympics.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices

Also, why is the dollar so weak right now?
What specific factors are making it so weak compared to practically everything else?? (well, besides the unemployment rate mentioned in the article)

This post has been edited by Psykopath: Jun 6 2008, 10:55 AM

[impala454]

Fucking financial analysts scaring people into making them some more money...

[chook]

Fucking financial analysts scaring people into making them some more money...

Part that, part Iraq and part slowdown in US economy while the world doesn't slow down.

[impala454]

Well Iraq is one thing, some douchebag analysts are another.

[Spectatrix]

And now, even uglier: http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/06/13/airli...bags/index.html

[impala454]

Continental just dropped a shit ton of flights/destinations.

[Spectatrix]

It's like watching a train wreck sometimes: http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/03/news/compa...sion=2008070311

[Mommy]

United just added a fuel charge to flights. $10 each way.

[Hartmann]

United just added a fuel charge to flights. $10 each way.

This will be more and more common.

One announcement that has not made it out into the public is the fact that Continental is now charging a larger fee for same day standby. It will cost you $50 if you get to the airport early and would like to take the earlier flight to your destination.

Southwest has always been the worst for standby and flight changes. You can buy a fully refundable ticket ($$$) or you can eat the cost and buy a new one at the airport.

[impala454]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5880641.html

US Airways says it will start removing in-flight entertainment systems on domestic flights in November to save about $10 million annually in fuel and other costs.

Spokesman Phil Gee says the movie systems weigh about 500 pounds each, forcing planes to use more fuel to get around the country.

what a buncha f'n losers. I don't know how much I believe that they'd save $10 million by shaving 500 lbs off of a 80,000 lb aircraft.

[Spectatrix]

They're talking about tv screens and headphone jacks and such?

[cmac]

we should just all board planes naked. that way we can shed the weight of clothing, and we can get rid of metal detectors.

[Spectatrix]

Let's get rid of the beverage carts too. I bet those and all the food/drinks weigh about 500 lbs. While we're at it, let's get rid of the seats. Everyone can just sit on the floor of the plane right?!?

[impala454]

hey and then they can go up and down in big parabolas a'la the vomit comet. that'd be fun and wouldn't require any interior!

[Mommy]

Anyone been to an airport recently? It's enraging as fuck. I had to go there to pick up my brother-in-law. He is only 14, so I had to get a pass to go through security to pick him up from the gate (even though the kid is 6 feet tall and looks and acts 18).

First, I had to go to the ticket counter before security. He flew United. They had 1 person working the counters. Every single person needed assistance with the supposed automated check-in, so the one employee is assisting 5 lines at one time. It took me 20 minutes or so to get through that mess and there were only like 5 or 6 people in front of me. Plus, the employees are so overloaded with work that they are pissy as hell. I needed to talk to them because I wasn't checking in. I needed a security pass. They kept telling me to go to the automated thing. Finally, I was like "Look. All I am doing is picking up a minor. I don't have a flight." Finally, they helped me. I got through that then headed to security.

The lines were long at security ,but it was right before 4th of July weekend so that was expected. Only took about 10 minutes to get through that. Everyone knows security is annoying as shit, but when it's the easiest part of the airport experience, there is a problem. It was the easiest part. (Then again, I know the rules and don't pittle pattle around). So I get through security and head to the gate.

United had like 5 or 6 gates all with passengers waiting for planes. They had 1 fucking person working all 6 gates. I didn't know what I was supposed to do to pick him up so I got in line to talk to her. Not only was she handling passengers from all 6 gates, but she was also having to report on delays, keep in contact with the flight crew of incoming flights, make announcements over the intercom when flights were landing, tell passengers what sections were boarding, and god knows what else. I stood there for like 20-30 minutes. There were only 3 people in front of me, and all they needed was seat assignments but she was so busy that she had to keep cutting them off.

Finally, I saw my brother-in-law so I just walked over to the dude he was with and signed a paper and we left. Still, my mother-in-law had to pay $200 extra (on top of the airline ticket) just for the service of having someone walk a 14 year old on and off a plane. That's fucking ridiculous. I'm sorry. I want to support airlines, but when they make it this fucking inconvenient, I would rather drive if the distance is within 10 hours.

If your bag weighs more than 50 pounds, they charge you an extra $100. If you have extra bags, it's $25 for the first bag and then something like $100 for every bag after that. Is fuel really that fucking expensive!?!?!

[Oasis]

Don't worry, the airline industry will sink itself just like a lot of other industries will in the next five or so years. It isn't really their fault. They're just trying to stay afloat like every other business. Passing on costs to the consumer due to an inept as fuck government is nothing new. It just sucks the end user, the consumer, is the one who always gets fucked. We can't cut our costs and expenses to maintain a steady profit level like businesses other than refusing to pay our taxes, which will land us in jail

[Mommy]

1) Taxes are a necessity in order to build roads, have schools, subsidize health care, etc. I have no problem with paying taxes. I just wish our gov't would spend less money on bureaucratic bullshit.

2) Inept gov't? Umm... Yeah, I mean, our gov't (between state and federal taxes) is making almost $1.00 on the gallon, but is it really their fault that gas prices are so high. Plain and simple: No.

3) The airline industry will not fail. It's too important to our economy. All we are going to see is major mergers and small airlines going out of business. You're being over dramatic.

4) Airlines are doing everything in their power to not inflate ticket prices. In doing so, they are jacking up the cost of everything else. I think this is a dumb move, but I guess if you travel light and don't have any special needs, you come out on top. Still, I think increasing ticket prices is better than having to pay so much more for an extra bag. Most people travel with 2 bags.

5) Of course the consumer is going to have to pay... we are the ones using the products. That's a stupid thing to say.

Honestly, I guess what I am saying is that I don't appreciate your semi-anarchist comment. I think it's motivated by pure irritation and there is no logic behind it at all. Not to be rude, I'm just saying...

[Oasis]

1) Taxes are a necessity in order to build roads, have schools, subsidize health care, etc. I have no problem with paying taxes. I just wish our gov't would spend less money on bureaucratic bullshit.

2) Inept gov't? Umm... Yeah, I mean, our gov't (between state and federal taxes) is making almost $1.00 on the gallon, but is it really their fault that gas prices are so high. Plain and simple: No.

3) The airline industry will not fail. It's too important to our economy. All we are going to see is major mergers and small airlines going out of business. You're being over dramatic.

4) Airlines are doing everything in their power to not inflate ticket prices. In doing so, they are jacking up the cost of everything else. I think this is a dumb move, but I guess if you travel light and don't have any special needs, you come out on top. Still, I think increasing ticket prices is better than having to pay so much more for an extra bag. Most people travel with 2 bags.

5) Of course the consumer is going to have to pay... we are the ones using the products. That's a stupid thing to say.

Honestly, I guess what I am saying is that I don't appreciate your semi-anarchist comment. I think it's motivated by pure irritation and there is no logic behind it at all. Not to be rude, I'm just saying...

Anarchist? Gimme a fucking break. I'm not Austin. Try realistic.

Oh, and the airlines are jacking up the ticket prices. You were joking, right?

[Mommy]

Anarchist? Gimme a fucking break. I'm not Austin. Try realistic.

Oh, and the airlines are jacking up the ticket prices. You were joking, right?

Do you ever fly? Prices are going up, but not at the rate you would think with how high gas prices are. They are compensating in other areas to keep prices competitive to lure customers.

Yeah, saying you aren't gonna/don't want to pay taxes is anarchist IMO. Also, blaming the gov't for every single thing that goes wrong is too. Consumers just need to wait out this rough time. I think gas prices are gonna fall soon, but that's just my prediction. I don't see them going below $2.87 but I do think we could see $2.99 prices again soon... Give it 3 months.

[impala454]

yup, everything is the government's fault... Will you're starting to sound like a liberal hippie

and if you're going to do the stupid liberal A -> B -> C -> D -> GOVERNMENT correlations, you might as well finish it off:

A->B->C->D->GOVT->ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE

[cmac]

i just got a flight from denver -> texas -> las vegas -> san diego -> denver leaving aug 1st for $350
I don't understand all this prices are rising talk.

[Mommy]

I think prices are still fairly decent. I was looking up last minute flights for my mom since I thought I was going into labor the other day, and it was only $187 each way, buying the day before it left. That's pretty reasonable for not buying 2 weeks in advance.

[Oasis]

yup, everything is the government's fault... Will you're starting to sound like a liberal hippie

and if you're going to do the stupid liberal A -> B -> C -> D -> GOVERNMENT correlations, you might as well finish it off:

A->B->C->D->GOVT->ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE

I'm probably just about as conservative as you. The only difference between me and you is I'm not an ignorant dumbass who thinks nothing is wrong with this country. Seriously, you've gone as far as saying you haven't noticed an increase in the price of groceries....seriously? Are you that closed minded that you'd actually lie to yourself to prove a point, or do you just not go grocery shopping?

I love how people argue that it's our fault because we elect these dumbfucks in to office. Really? When this guy was running and I voted for him, He never mentioned he wanted to push a law requiring a two year wait for divorce (but only two months if the husband is physically abusive!). No, I don't remember that ever being part of his re-election platform. If he had mentioned that I wouldn't have voted for his retarded ass. And no, I didn't actually vote for him because he's from Pampa, I'm trying to show you an example (because I know you'll read through and nitpick and try to find something miniscule and off topic to disprove my point, like you always do).

This is how it works, Chuck. Candidates run on very vague, feel good platforms in an attempt to gain public support and get elected. Once they get elected, they're given free reign to do whatever the hell they want and try to push through absolutely ridiculous laws, and we can't do a damn thing about it until re-election four years later. Let's be realistic here, short of committing homicide, an elected official isn't getting kicked out of office. We're stuck with him and his idiotic ideas for four years, and we have to suffer the consequences.

You're just like Cathryn, and it's hilarious because you don't even realize it. Y'all just happen to be on the polar opposite ends of the political spectrum. You keep screaming "nothing's wrong!" while she keeps screaming "everything's wrong!" To any rational person, it's obvious that neither of those views are even remotely close to reality. Both of y'all are ignorant in your own special way.

A liberal hippie, I'm certainly not. A realist, I am.

[Mommy]

The problem arises when you can't disprove any of the arguments against your original post. You obviously know NOTHING about the airline industry based on your initial post today.

Really the prices that have risen at the grocery store are bread prices. Everything else is just a few cents here and a few cents there. I went shopping yesterday and got everything I needed for under $5. I thought it was going to be closer to $8. Bread is expensive but there is a worldwide shortage of wheat or some shit that is driving prices up. Corn can be pricey because of its use as an alternative fuel. It also doesn't help that there was mass flooding in the Midwest where we get a lot of our corn and wheat crop from. (Again, are you gonna blame the government for the floods in Iowa?) I can still get a bag of boneless chicken breast for under $10, the same price it was last year. I can still buy cake mix for $.99. I mean, I more notice prices changing at fast food restaurants. My husband and I decided to boycott McDonalds for a while since their prices are going through the roof. It's the same price for us to eat at Chick Fil A now.

And seriously, if you didn't vote for the guy because he isn't in your district, why even bitch about it? Citizens do have a right to petition a law to go to vote or petition to have a government official removed from office. People are lazy. I blame people. That, and we live in such a bipartisan country that it's very rare that both Republicans AND Democrats have an equal distaste for an official. It's kinda necessary to have the support of both sides when working to remove someone from office. Besides, I see what he did as a typical Republican move. Plus, it's not always four years. Senators serve 6 year terms I believe. Some officials only serve 2 year terms. Just thought I would add that since your rant is mostly nonsense anyway.

You certainly have been having awfully liberally slanted/non-conservative viewpoints lately. He's not the only one to notice it...hence why I said you were acting somewhat like an anarchist.

[Oasis]

I admit I think a LOT of shit needs to be changed with the government. I think someone is going to rise up and take down certain corrupt elected officials...and of course the government will write it him off as a terrorist and tell everyone so. Only difference between this time and previous times (McVeigh, etc) is that I think people will actually listen to what the guy has to say and maybe, just maybe, agree with him. I keep reading more and more stories about these corrupt government assholes who misappropriate public funds, lie, cheat and steal, etc....and all they're given is a proverbial slap on the wrist. If an American citizen did those things we'd be in prison. That's the thing that bothers me - elected officials answer to no one for their indiscretions. Do you really think their fellow government cronies they're in cahoots with are really going to take them down for the good of the American population? Of course not. Who should be holding them accountable? Us. Of course everyone is a chickenshit and uses the convenient excuse that it's our fault because we elected them in to office. Doesn't fly with me. I'll only hold myself accountable for electing an official in to office if I know exactly what he's going to be doing for the next four years. Of course that's impossible. Using my Chisum example, even in the bible belt of Texas, do you think he would have been elected if he ran on a platform that supported a two month waiting period for battered wives to get a divorce? People in West Texas are pretty ignorant but they're not completely retarded. He would have lost the election in a landslide. That's my point. We elect people people then have to wait four years while they pass through ridiculous laws and fuck up god knows what else and we can't do anything to remedy it. WE should start holding them accountable. Be it through violence or something else. Teach these fuckers a lesson that they do have someone to answer to and they can't get away with whatever they want.

Call me whatever you want. Anarchist is fine. A lot of my views probably are anarchistic. The only difference is my way of fixing things and what I want to see done is completely opposite of what "normal" anarchists want. The only thing we have in common is we both want change.

[Mommy]

If you are in any way shape of form saying that what Timothy McVeigh did was valiant, you sir need mental help. Killing people does not solve problems. That man was a terrorist. He killed over a hundred people, some of which were children in a day care there. Terrorist actions do not make people listen. You know what was so great about the movie V for Vendetta? It proved that points can be made without killing anyone. Yeah, the dude blew up the building or whatever (which I also don't condone because our tax dollars pay for government buildings) but no one died. NO ONE WILL EVER LISTEN TO SOMEONE WHO MURDERS INNOCENT PEOPLE. The government has a lot of paper pushers who simply work for the government and are innocent parties. You have a very extreme viewpoint that only loony people would agree with.

Also, a two month waiting period for a divorce for a battered woman isn't really that bad. A lot of areas have 6 month waiting periods. Additionally, she doesn't have to be living with the guy or near the guy during the time frame. In fact, she can even have a restraining order against her "husband." It takes time for divorces to go through. I mean, getting married took a bit too. It's a week process, if not longer. The only reason I was able to get married within 2 days is because my husband is active duty military. In most cases, you have to secure a marriage license at least a week before the wedding or something like that. I guarantee if that is the guy's most backward viewpoint, I still would have voted for him, mainly because I don't live in some delusional world where things get done over night.

[Oasis]

Timothy McVeigh was a coward who killed over a hundred innocent people. In no way would I ever say he's valiant and he deserves the electric chair

[impala454]

I'm probably just about as conservative as you. The only difference between me and you is I'm not an ignorant dumbass ...

and i'm done

your posts have been so quick and easy lately!

[Hartmann]

Anyone been to an airport recently? It's enraging as fuck. I had to go there to pick up my brother-in-law. He is only 14, so I had to get a pass to go through security to pick him up from the gate (even though the kid is 6 feet tall and looks and acts 18).

First, I had to go to the ticket counter before security. He flew United. They had 1 person working the counters. Every single person needed assistance with the supposed automated check-in, so the one employee is assisting 5 lines at one time. It took me 20 minutes or so to get through that mess and there were only like 5 or 6 people in front of me. Plus, the employees are so overloaded with work that they are pissy as hell. I needed to talk to them because I wasn't checking in. I needed a security pass. They kept telling me to go to the automated thing. Finally, I was like "Look. All I am doing is picking up a minor. I don't have a flight." Finally, they helped me. I got through that then headed to security.

The lines were long at security ,but it was right before 4th of July weekend so that was expected. Only took about 10 minutes to get through that. Everyone knows security is annoying as shit, but when it's the easiest part of the airport experience, there is a problem. It was the easiest part. (Then again, I know the rules and don't pittle pattle around). So I get through security and head to the gate.

United had like 5 or 6 gates all with passengers waiting for planes. They had 1 fucking person working all 6 gates. I didn't know what I was supposed to do to pick him up so I got in line to talk to her. Not only was she handling passengers from all 6 gates, but she was also having to report on delays, keep in contact with the flight crew of incoming flights, make announcements over the intercom when flights were landing, tell passengers what sections were boarding, and god knows what else. I stood there for like 20-30 minutes. There were only 3 people in front of me, and all they needed was seat assignments but she was so busy that she had to keep cutting them off.

Finally, I saw my brother-in-law so I just walked over to the dude he was with and signed a paper and we left. Still, my mother-in-law had to pay $200 extra (on top of the airline ticket) just for the service of having someone walk a 14 year old on and off a plane. That's fucking ridiculous. I'm sorry. I want to support airlines, but when they make it this fucking inconvenient, I would rather drive if the distance is within 10 hours.

If your bag weighs more than 50 pounds, they charge you an extra $100. If you have extra bags, it's $25 for the first bag and then something like $100 for every bag after that. Is fuel really that fucking expensive!?!?!

$200 to have someone walk their kid around? What airline was this?

[Mommy]

$200 to have someone walk their kid around? What airline was this?

United, and they never even left the gate. I met the employee at the gate both times. In fact, they were supposed to physically walk with him on the plane, and they didn't. Their policy is they charge $99 each way for unattended minors. Although, I did just remember that they had to chaperon him to the gate for his connecting flight.
http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,1052,00.html
That's the link that says the price.

[Spectatrix]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5880641.html

what a buncha f'n losers. I don't know how much I believe that they'd save $10 million by shaving 500 lbs off of a 80,000 lb aircraft.

Missed this last month, but they're also charging $2 for the previously free drinks (water, soda, juice): http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/...&id=8771187

[impala454]

geez... F that. I'm glad I don't use air travel much. (or when I do I use Southwest)

[Hartmann]

Yay, advertisements on my boarding pass:
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/go...amp;newsLang=en

I don't usually look at my boarding pass after I've printed it so I guess it doesn't much matter to me.

[chook]

they would be wasting my ink. i usually only travel with check in luggage (may change soon) so i just check at the gate usually except SWA.

[Mommy]

I travel really lightly, even when going somewhere for like a week. I used to LOVE only taking a carry-on bag because it was convenient, and I didn't have to wait at baggage claim to pick it up. The last year or two, though, ever since the liquids ban, I only take my purse on the plane. It's way too inconvenient to pack to get through security. It really sucks. I mean, waiting at baggage claim adds about an extra 20 minutes to travel time for me. I don't know why, but my bag is always like the last one off the plane. Maybe it has something to do with the time that I show up at the airport. I know El Paso's airport really well so I usually show up less than 45 minutes before my flight, unless it's a holiday. It really sucks that I am moving so far from my parents in August just for the simple fact that I can't chose to drive (or at least I would be insane to chose that drive...23 hours) home for the holidays. I'm forced into flying when I want to see them. Ever since Christmas, I have done nothing but drive because I hate air travel so much now.

[Mommy]

ugh... http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/15/news/econo...sion=2008071518

[Hartmann]

ugh... http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/15/news/econo...sion=2008071518

I think the airlines are hitting the nail on the head when they call out the speculators.

Do I think that airlines should be giving subsidies? No.

[Mommy]

What I don't get is how American and Continental, according to the article, are holding steady; but Southwest airlines is not. I figured Southwest would be the one everyone is running to these days since their fares tend to be a tad cheaper.

[Hartmann]

What I don't get is how American and Continental, according to the article, are holding steady; but Southwest airlines is not. I figured Southwest would be the one everyone is running to these days since their fares tend to be a tad cheaper.

Southwest has been having issues hedging fuel which in the long run will hurt them. I am not sure the exact numbers but I think they are having problems filling their planes as well. I was at LAX and took a walk by the Southwest gates, there were planes but a small amount of passengers (for what I am used to in L.A.). By nature Southwest tickets are cheaper because they are not always flying the passengers from one location to the same one you are going to. Your ticket from Houston to Lubbock stops in Dallas where it picks up passengers going to Albuquerque where they pick up passengers going to Seattle. All of those tickets have their own price points and sometimes it is profitable, sometimes it is not.

If Southwest sells a lot of the Houston to Lubbock tickets but not a lot of the Dallas to Albuquerque then they potentially lose a good chunk of money.

Continental will sell based on demand. Meaning, they will sell seats on a low a demand flight for cheap just to pay for the gas but if the demand is high, they up the prices. This happens in nearly real time. Southwest simply blocks seats at different price levels.

I am surprised that AA is considered "stable" especially since they have had issues filling their planes as well and the fact that the one model of plane that they use (MD-80) is a gas hog.

Continental has been making moves to protect themselves, including quick decisions to stop unprofitable routes and filling the schedule with routes that are profitable. Abilene, Texarkana, and San Angelo all lose Continental service Oct. 1.