FBI wants massive biometrics database Options

[Spectatrix]

Scary stuff.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/02/04/fbi.biometrics/index.html

The FBI already has 55 million sets of fingerprints on file. In coming years, the bureau wants to compare palm prints, scars and tattoos, iris eye patterns, and facial shapes. The idea is to combine various pieces of biometric information to positively identify a potential suspect.

[Testm0nkey]

I'm starting to care less and less about stuff like this. As long as it stops before use of retinal scans in marketplaces, pedestrian walkways, and public buildings and national implanted gps systems like some people say are "just around the corner."

less possibility of innocent people being convicted, your loved ones will have their identifying marks in a national system so better ids can be made if they go missing or are killed. trust me its not pleasant trying to identify a corpse of someone you know. police etc not wasting time running on bad ids or trying to track some down

basically everyones prints are in some system or another already. if thats acceptable and deemed necessary (i think most people think that) i dont see the difference extending it into other areas a little bit

[Seeker]

lolol cathryn will be accepting the new world order/illuminati microchip with open arms, have fun with the government tracking your every move, monitoring your emotional/stress level, etc.

[The Fanatic]

Right to privacy anyone?

[Testm0nkey]

i said i wouldnt accept a microchip. but i think its still a far jump from collecting palm prints to forced implantation of tracking devices

[The Fanatic]

Change is always incremental, especially within the political culture that we inhabit. If you give authorities and inch today they will surely take a mile later on down the road.

The FBI says it hasn't been saving the fingerprints for those checks, but that may change. The FBI plans a so-called "rap-back" service in which an employer could ask the FBI to keep the prints for an employee on file and let the employer know if the person ever has a brush with the law. The FBI says it will first have to clear hurdles with state privacy laws, and people would have to sign waivers allowing their information to be kept.

This is an alarming possibility which undermines the rights that individuals in America hold so dear. I don't want the government to map out every inch of my body in order to protect this nation from "terrorists" and other undesirables that may threaten the so called order. History repeats itself. One eras communist is anothers terrorist, it is all a carefully constructed guise to yank the freedoms that we are entitled. At what cost? I don't claim to be a conspiracy nut but something in the milk is not white. These expressed intentions couple with new developments in the field of technology and a national ID card or REAL ID Act. I do believe that one day Americans will be implanted with a chip that holds all of their identifying information, credit accounts, bank accounts, biographical information etc. synced up with a larger computer database that will track, monitor, and dictate every hour or our life.


P.S. Think of the power that advertisers will hold! They will be able to buy time on personal microchips from the government and will subconsciously imprint products in our dreams!

This post has been edited by The Fanatic: Feb 4 2008, 04:19 PM

[Testm0nkey]

that kind of stuff i disagree with. but i believe the two issues are still pretty separate.
because the process is slow you have time to stop the wheel from rolling further when it really needs to be stopped. its not like if this passes one day, the military will be breaking your door down and shoving a gun down your throat the next

[Seeker]

I don't want my DNA in some government database because the potential for abuse is massive. If some guy who works with the database found out his wife cheated on him with some douche what's to stop the guy from planting the douche's DNA at a murder scene? What's going to stop people in politics from sprinkling their rivals DNA at a crime scene?

Same thing with palm prints etc.

Like Fanatic said, government encroachment upon our rights is incremental. Each time they only ask for an inch and no more, but all those inches add up to a mile.

[Testm0nkey]

you should have trust in the people who represent you and those in politics. if you dont have that, than thats the big issue. and yes its widespread in america and thats really sad

[Seeker]

you should have trust in the people who represent you and those in politics. if you dont have that, than thats the big issue. and yes its widespread in america and thats really sad

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[The Fanatic]

Cat, why should Americans have faith in the people that claim to represent their best interest? Especially given all the lies, corruption, mud slinging and outright disregard for the common working class and middle class American. Trust leads to blind obedience and naive notions that governments operate on a rational and just system. Men have power are like all men; they have their own ambitions, needs, desires, and agendas that come before the whims of constituents back home. I actually completly disagree with you. As Americans we should trust that the system in which we elect our officials will give us the ability to oust those men in favor of men more competent to serve our needs, but a belief in the good nature of government and the men within that system is foolish. In fact, it is our obligation to question government and keep them in check so that those men do not abuse the power given to them to circumvent our rights.

Think about it for one second. surveillance and tracking of a state's citizens is every governments wet dream. The goal of government is to maintain order which by extension maintains the ruling classes and those that are ruled. And what better way to achieve that is there? If you can keep track of what people buy, their physical characteristics, sexual preferences, disorders, location, etc then you can also dictate indirectly how that individual behaves and effectively maintain the order and agenda that any government may hold.

This post has been edited by The Fanatic: Feb 4 2008, 05:02 PM

[impala454]

I don't quite see what the difference is between them having my finger prints vs other identifying marks.... /shrug

[Testm0nkey]

does lance not think you should have trust in your government? or are you laughing because you think thats impossible

i didnt say have blind ignorant trust. im not impala. im saying a citizen should be able to trust their officials and if they dont then then new officials are needed. i dont know where in spiveys post he is disagreeing with me then

ex. most people in Singapore say they trust their government. the government also has the lowest amounts of corruption in the entire world. they are some of the most highly educated people in the country and the best paid. people in singapore are also supposedly the happiest in the world. trust in government and happiness supposedly go hand in hand

and i dont think people in powers secret goal is to have a communist utopia circa 1984.

[Mommy]

I am so sick of these boards turning into a THE GOVT IS OUT TO GET YOU protest site.

[Testm0nkey]

there is no real point in having that much data on every citizen. regarding the governments future plans to track everyones movement, stress levels, and predict their activities etc. the logistics of that is impossible, 90% of the data would be insignificant and a waste, and what point does it serve? people in power dont care that much about the average person to do that

people who envision and strive for a world like big brother stories like 1984 dont reach the kind of democratic power that would let them do that. because they are called psychos and nerds and dont have the charisma or social skills to matter

[The Fanatic]

I'm not going to go as far to say that the government WILL do these things, but I still think that it is definitely a possibility. As a society we must decide where to draw the line. Where must privacy begin and end. Let me clarify, I don't think that the government is out to get us at every step and turn. However, men of power will always search for ways to better maintain and control that scheme of power. It only seems natural given the current technology that eventually governments will want to keep track of all citizens at all times. We already have systems such as On Star in vehicles and our household animals have even been fitted with microchips. Given the level of technology on the surface a microchip would serve as a great tool for law enforcement. Imagine the possibilities.... there is a missing person, all you need to do is type in there name and the officials would know exactly where that person was located. However, every new technology also contains a dark sinister side. There are just some things that I don't want my government to know. End of story.

Impala,
The main difference that I can see between a finger print database and a biometric database for example is that mapping out things like tattoos would be too personal. Many times a tattoo has symbolic meaning which is significant too that particular person and would in my opinion violate their right to privacy.

[FORSAKENR320]

i would agree to have my palm prints taken, but only on the grounds that all our politicians have microchips implanted that monitor when they are lying, and dog collars that would give them a nice jolt everytime they did so. if they would still approve that through congress, sure.

i'd love to see how many politicians would agree to THAT. and think of the possiblilities! if a candidate promised he would lower taxes, and everything else under the sun while getting elected, and then didn't do so... BAM lots and lots of pain.

it's not the people that need to be leashed, it's our "leaders"

[Dogmeat]

people have cell phones.

What do they need microchips for?

[The Fanatic]

I can throw my cell phone away.

[Dogmeat]

as long as it records penis size I'm all for this.

This way, I'll know there is a database somewhere I can hack into to find out how big somone's cock is, so I can go around betting peope that my cock is bigger than theirs and always win.

[impala454]

i didnt say have blind ignorant trust. im not impala.

I don't have blind ignorant trust of the government. I just don't give a shit about things that don't affect me. learn the difference before making stupid ass blanket statements about people.

[impala454]

Impala,
The main difference that I can see between a finger print database and a biometric database for example is that mapping out things like tattoos would be too personal. Many times a tattoo has symbolic meaning which is significant too that particular person and would in my opinion violate their right to privacy.

If the tatt is visible how does writing that down as an identifying mark violate someone's privacy? It'd be like them writing down that your hair is black. I seriously doubt they're going to have the entire population line up, get naked, and have their body's scanned or some shit like the foil hats would have everyone think.

[FORSAKENR320]

If the tatt is visible how does writing that down as an identifying mark violate someone's privacy? It'd be like them writing down that your hair is black. I seriously doubt they're going to have the entire population line up, get naked, and have their body's scanned or some shit like the foil hats would have everyone think.

we already do this. everytime i have a client out of jail, i have to write down all identifying tattoos, birthmarks, etc. we don't do it in huge lines, but police write it down everytime you are arrested, jailers too.
i can't really say how many times i have managed to catch some asshat pretending to be his brother (alot of mexicans look alike to me) simply by looking at tattoos on his arms shoulders, and neck.

you're right, it doesn't violate personal privacy if it's exposed in visible site. (if i remember correctly, alot of guys manage to get off of sexual harrassment cases if it can be proven that the females are overly flaunting themselves to the public)

[The Fanatic]

If the tatt is visible how does writing that down as an identifying mark violate someone's privacy? It'd be like them writing down that your hair is black. I seriously doubt they're going to have the entire population line up, get naked, and have their body's scanned or some shit like the foil hats would have everyone think.

If a tattoo is visible then it is not a privacy issue because the individual has chosen to allow the tattoo to be viewed by anyone.

No, but governments could heavily regulate tattoo parlors and keep records of tattoo placement and design on individuals, hypothetically. For clarification purposes, I don't think all of this "conspiracy" stuff will come to be pass but I am willing to argue that the steps that the FBI is taking could lead to a loss of freedom and privacy if certain men had their way.

This post has been edited by The Fanatic: Feb 5 2008, 04:11 AM

[impala454]

Well yeah that'd be pretty bad if the govt regulated tattoo parlors to keep records and submit them, but I seriously doubt that would ever happen.

[The Fanatic]

Hopefully not, but anything is possible.

[impala454]

Hopefully not, but anything is possible.

Not really.

[The Fanatic]

Wow,


That witty retort blew my argument out of the water

Whatever am I going to do!!!

[Spectatrix]

Hopefully not, but anything is possible.

Pigs flying under their own power isn't possible! So there!

[Mommy]

Pigs flying under their own power isn't possible! So there!

could be possible depending on what your perception of reality is.

[Spectatrix]

could be possible depending on what your perception of reality is.

Hush, you.

[Mommy]

Hush, you.

do you really want me to hush or is the evil deamon telling you to tell me that?

[The Fanatic]

Pigs flying under their own power isn't possible! So there!

[impala454]

Wow,
That witty retort blew my argument out of the water

Whatever am I going to do!!!

Well, your statement doesn't make sense. "Anything is possible". It's not. I didn't really feel the need to explain it because I thought you'd get it, but I guess I will. Do you think if the government wanted to they could force every single person to strip down naked and have pictures taken of all identifying marks? It cannot happen. It is not possible. It's something that would never pass through our legislative system, it is crossing the line for 99% of the population and we wouldn't stand for it. It would be impossible to enforce and would not ever happen.