California seeks thermostat monitoring and control Options

[Hartmann]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/11con...0mR6wWDVHznsAQA

W...T...F...



I know they have energy problems but that's their fault, what they need is a giant sign on the California border saying "No more f'ers can live here".

[impala454]

Wow. They can pry my thermostat out of my cold, dead, hands.

[Seeker]

haha, why is the solution to everything more control by the government?

why doesn't california get off their fucking lazy asses and fix their energy production system? solar cells are 60% efficient now thus making it cheaper than COAL... build a fucking solar power station already and quit fucking with peoples' thermostats

[Testm0nkey]

do dumb people really need to live indoors at a 50 degree constant temperature? people are crazy with their AC's

[Hartmann]

do dumb people really need to live indoors at a 50 degree constant temperature? people are crazy with their AC's

Yeah, 50 degrees is crazy, but if people can afford to pay for it, why should they not be allowed to have it? Honestly, I doubt many people put their house's thermostat on 50, considering that would cause pneumonia.

What's next? Telling people with more than 2 TVs to choose a few to get rid of?

The government cannot, without any doubts, change social choices. More than likely they will cause a consequence they did not foresee which is why social change has to occur within the population. Californians should be eager to put their thermostats on 78 instead of getting rolling blackouts. We'll see what this year brings.

[Testm0nkey]

the inherent problem is people living in excess. you dont need more than 2 tvs. in my mind human nature strives to be as efficient as possible. people like that are not good examples

maybe laws forbidding things isnt the right way to go but people have to learn somehow

[Inferia]

Yeah, 50 degrees is crazy, but if people can afford to pay for it, why should they not be allowed to have it? Honestly, I doubt many people put their house's thermostat on 50, considering that would cause pneumonia.

I think the point of the control is to use it during when there's a crisis, perhaps once or twice a year when there is a shortage of energy, not on a regular basis to keep your thermostat above 50. Even if you can afford to keep it at 50, there are times when it could be detrimental to the state.

[Hartmann]

maybe laws forbidding things isnt the right way to go but people have to learn somehow

Not having power isn't learning?

Also, a good number of people who live excessively actually live in debt, so it eventually catches up with them.

[Hartmann]

I think the point of the control is to use it during when there's a crisis, perhaps once or twice a year when there is a shortage of energy, not on a regular basis to keep your thermostat above 50. Even if you can afford to keep it at 50, there are times when it could be detrimental to the state.

But how do you know that's how it's going to be used? And where does it stop? The article also points that the govt. would monitor home appliances as well.

Why don't they just strap a GPS on you along with a heart monitor. Or better yet, put you on one of those mice wheels and you have to power your own house.

[2wolUTT]

the inherent problem is people living in excess. you dont need more than 2 tvs. in my mind human nature strives to be as efficient as possible. people like that are not good examples

maybe laws forbidding things isnt the right way to go but people have to learn somehow

I beg to differ, I need at least 3. Bedroom, living room, & kitchen. I want to put one in the bathroom above the toilet like at BWW.

[Inferia]

But how do you know that's how it's going to be used? And where does it stop? The article also points that the govt. would monitor home appliances as well.

Why don't they just strap a GPS on you along with a heart monitor. Or better yet, put you on one of those mice wheels and you have to power your own house.

I don't, I'm really in support of the law, I'm just saying during emergency situations, this could be useful since people never listen anyway. I remember when we had that black out a few years back, my city put out this notice that people shouldn't be using a lot of water because the water treatment facility has been down, and if everyone used just as much water as they normally would, this could cause substantial damage to the facility. I don't think I really listened and took a shower anyway. The water treatment facility was okay, but I wonder if no one listened during that time, what would've happened to the facility, and how much of tax payers money it would cost to fix such facility because people don't really care. Anyway, I'm pretty sure there will be similar situations for electricity. There are facilities that can not go without electricity, and those who ignore these warnings for whatever selfish reasons they may be during emergencies should be punished. Though I must say that there's gotta be a better way than monitoring someone's thermostat, but I can see what they're trying to accomplish here, however intrusive, they should just tack it onto the patriot act for "national security purposes".

[pebkac]

I don't really see this as a problem depending on how the law will work. I mean, Lubbock's had regulations on overwatering for years and I've never heard anyone say it was a problem. And I don't see how that situation is any different than preventing overuse of electricity.

This post has been edited by pebkac: Jan 11 2008, 12:21 PM

[Hartmann]

I don't really see this as a problem depending on how the law will work. I mean, Lubbock's had regulations on overwatering for years and I've never heard anyone say it was a problem.

There is a difference in you choosing to overwater and possibly getting a ticket and the government being able to throttle your water by monitoring it.

[pebkac]

There is a difference in you choosing to overwater and possibly getting a ticket and the government being able to throttle your water by monitoring it.

That is true (sorry, didn't read the article all the way through).

[FORSAKENR320]

the inherent problem is people living in excess. you dont need more than 2 tvs. in my mind human nature strives to be as efficient as possible. people like that are not good examples

maybe laws forbidding things isnt the right way to go but people have to learn somehow

says the person who will dry 1 towel on max dry for an hour......

[2wolUTT]

lolz she wants that bitch dry

[impala454]

the inherent problem is people living in excess.

And the fundamental problem in that line of thought is that you're allowing the government to determine the definition of "in excess".

[Testm0nkey]

says the person who will dry 1 towel on max dry for an hour......

you are thinking of spivey.

ive lived in places with mandatory water rationing. they CUT the water for an extended period of time. no water flowing to anyones house. if they can do that they can do what they want to conserve electricity imo

[Hartmann]

you are thinking of spivey.

ive lived in places with mandatory water rationing. they CUT the water for an extended period of time. no water flowing to anyones house. if they can do that they can do what they want to conserve electricity imo

Water is a necessity to life, electricity is not. Plus, what if they screw up and accidentally turn off a bunch of poor people's thermostats when it's 100 degrees outside and everyone dies?

[Testm0nkey]

but they arent turning them off they are seeking to have some sort of control/monitoring of them. i think electricity is essential. it certainly is in this day in age. they want to avoid another energy crisis if they can

[FORSAKENR320]

Water is a necessity to life, electricity is not. Plus, what if they screw up and accidentally turn off a bunch of poor people's thermostats when it's 100 degrees outside and everyone dies?

crime rate in the area would drop

[FORSAKENR320]

but they arent turning them off they are seeking to have some sort of control/monitoring of them. i think electricity is essential. it certainly is in this day in age. they want to avoid another energy crisis if they can

i'm not trying to be rude or attacking you in any way... but the more you talk, the more wierd you get.... you draw the strangest conclusions on topics, and support some of the most wack-job ideas ever...

[Psykopath]

crime rate in the area would drop

Technically you are considered poor based on income levels, Brandon.

[FORSAKENR320]

Technically you are considered poor based on income levels, Brandon.

true... but i'm not gonna die from 100 degree heat... i'm white, i willing to get in a pool and swim

[Psykopath]

true... but i'm not gonna die from 100 degree heat... i'm white, i willing to get in a pool and swim

And you're one of the people running the A/C at 50-55 during the winter!!

[FORSAKENR320]

And you're one of the people running the A/C at 50-55 during the winter!!

hence the reason i disapprove of government controlled thermostats

[Hartmann]

but they arent turning them off they are seeking to have some sort of control/monitoring of them. i think electricity is essential. it certainly is in this day in age. they want to avoid another energy crisis if they can

They are talking about throttling the thermostats and monitoring how much people use so that they can approach the people to turn their electricity off or limit their supply.

[Testm0nkey]

i still dont disagree with it. a poor person probably doesnt have AC but if they do maybe they are smart enough to not blow it all day so they dont get killed with a 100 dollar electric bill because they are poor. - this is referring to a previous post about what if they shut off a poor mans ac and he dies. maybe he wouldnt die and it would help him learn to not live beyond his means

brandon - i may draw "strange conclusions" but i have always admitted i have very different views on things

my end all be all view on this is there is an energy crisis and the need to conserve.

[Hartmann]

i still dont disagree with it. a poor person probably doesnt have AC but if they do maybe they are smart enough to not blow it all day so they dont get killed with a 100 dollar electric bill because they are poor. - this is referring to a previous post about what if they shut off a poor mans ac and he dies. maybe he wouldnt die and it would help him learn to not live beyond his means

brandon - i may draw "strange conclusions" but i have always admitted i have very different views on things

my end all be all view on this is there is an energy crisis and the need to conserve.

But their energy crisis is caused by the fact that they have people who believe more power plants and aggressive pursuit of alternative energy are not important. So how do they plan to solve it? By monitoring people.

Give me a break.

[FORSAKENR320]

i still dont disagree with it. a poor person probably doesnt have AC but if they do maybe they are smart enough to not blow it all day so they dont get killed with a 100 dollar electric bill because they are poor. - this is referring to a previous post about what if they shut off a poor mans ac and he dies. maybe he wouldnt die and it would help him learn to not live beyond his means

brandon - i may draw "strange conclusions" but i have always admitted i have very different views on things

my end all be all view on this is there is an energy crisis and the need to conserve.

i think the system is fine... we just need a few less people. grab a bat, we're going go break some people

[Testm0nkey]

i was not under the belief that was all they were doing

[Psykopath]

hence the reason i disapprove of government controlled thermostats

But, is there any reason why you can just crack a window instead of freezing the balls off everyone else?




Ah, -Cal-i-for-ni-a....energy crisis?! NO wai.

Keep up with the adding of solar panels to all new housing developments...that should continue to help things in that state.

[FORSAKENR320]

But, is there any reason why you can just crack a window instead of freezing the balls off everyone else?
Ah, -Cal-i-for-ni-a....energy crisis?! NO wai.

Keep up with the adding of solar panels to all new housing developments...that should continue to help things in that state.

i nailed all the windows shut because i'm a paranoid bastard

[Testm0nkey]

i love solar panels and the green house movement. why is that not mandatory for all new housing developments all across the country!

[FORSAKENR320]

i love solar panels and the green house movement. why is that not mandatory for all new housing developments all across the country!

i'd think they'd be high maintainance... friend has one that works his living room lights, and it doesn't work half the time.

[Hartmann]

i love solar panels and the green house movement. why is that not mandatory for all new housing developments all across the country!

Cost and maintenance. Not only do you have to worry about the panels but you also have the battery system to keep up with.

[Psykopath]

i love solar panels and the green house movement. why is that not mandatory for all new housing developments all across the country!

I don't know....it's mind-boggling, really. The sun rises and it sets every single day. Free energy going to waste.

My future house will have solar panels and a green-house (fuck you Techsans for all the impending hippie comments!).

[Psykopath]

i'd think they'd be high maintainance... friend has one that works his living room lights, and it doesn't work half the time.

but yet you were so impressed by them from that website. *sigh*

Cost and maintenance.

And other systems don't have any cost or maintenance to them?

[FORSAKENR320]

I don't know....it's mind-boggling, really. The sun rises and it sets every single day. Free energy going to waste.

My future house will have solar panels and a green-house (fuck you Techsans for all the impending hippie comments!).

i think a green house is an awesome idea. i'd like to have them. the hippy comments come from all the pot you'd be growing in said greenhouse.... hippy


::squint::

[Hartmann]

My future house will have solar panels and a green-house (fuck you Techsans for all the impending hippie comments!).

I very much want to do the same, with a large garden as well. Self sustaining is not a bad thing.

There are couple of volunteer farms/gardens in Austin I would suggest you visit, they're pretty cool enterprises.

[Psykopath]

i think a green house is an awesome idea. i'd like to have them. the hippy comments come from all the pot you'd be growing in said greenhouse.... hippy
::squint::

Oh no...see, I would flamethrower all found pot in the area(except for a supply of government hydro to cultivate and sell to the ex-trust-fund-hippies in the apocalypse).

I just like the taste of truly fresh veggies, namely tomatoes....*drooooool*

[FORSAKENR320]

but yet you were so impressed by them from that website. *sigh*

those are portable versions that have been reinforced to handle constant moving. also a much simpler device than the ones installed on houses... i approve of them and the house versions, but they need to freaking work

[Hartmann]

And other systems don't have any cost or maintenance to them?

No there are costs associated with every system but with photovoltaics the costs are significantly higher with a lot more maintenance. There is also the danger of batteries leaking or completely losing charge.

[impala454]

This isn't about safety, it's about government control. Throw me into the foil hat group with Lance if you must, but they'll put this in under the guise of safety and then use it as some "wonderful" new California greenie bill and want everyone else to follow suit. If they really wanted to monitor this stuff and be able to shut off certain people for safety, they can already do it. If you don't pay your elec bill, you get shut off, it doesn't take that much more for someone to look at how much electricity you use. Your HVAC determines 80% of your electric bill anyways.

[FORSAKENR320]

Oh no...see, I would flamethrower all found pot in the area(except for a supply of government hydro to cultivate and sell to the ex-trust-fund-hippies in the apocalypse).

I just like the taste of truly fresh veggies, namely tomatoes....*drooooool*

flame within close proximity to hallucinagenic plants doesn't seem like one of your brightest plans... and i can guarantee that the first thing people are gonna plan to grow is pot in the apocalypse. too many new orleans Heiniken stealing chimps out there to think that people would focus on prioritys first and foremost...

[FORSAKENR320]

This isn't about safety, it's about government control. Throw me into the foil hat group with Lance if you must, but they'll put this in under the guise of safety and then use it as some "wonderful" new California greenie bill and want everyone else to follow suit. If they really wanted to monitor this stuff and be able to shut off certain people for safety, they can already do it. If you don't pay your elec bill, you get shut off, it doesn't take that much more for someone to look at how much electricity you use. Your HVAC determines 80% of your electric bill anyways.

thats a good point that everyone is forgetting... those people that run thier AC on 50 usually are paying to be able to do so.


unless california is loaded with apartments like mine.... which do not have to pay for any of their bills, including air conditioner...

[Psykopath]

flame within close proximity to hallucinagenic plants doesn't seem like one of your brightest plans... and i can guarantee that the first thing people are gonna plan to grow is pot in the apocalypse. too many new orleans Heiniken stealing chimps out there to think that people would focus on prioritys first and foremost...

And I'm sure everyone can just grow government hydro from the schwag rotting in the backseat of their 89 Chevy. I'd be controlling the good stuff!


Oh but the flamethrower idea is the BEST plan.
I wear a gas mask as the task is accomplished. The smoke hooks the little peons looking for salvation.
They come to me for their fix.

[Hartmann]

thats a good point that everyone is forgetting... those people that run thier AC on 50 usually are paying to be able to do so.
unless california is loaded with apartments like mine.... which do not have to pay for any of their bills, including air conditioner...

now people are understanding what I was trying to say.

[Testm0nkey]

the green houses i was referring to are homes that are built out of largely recyclable material and super energy efficient on their own. taking advantage of environmental aspects around the home and exterior/interior space and alternative building materials. they also of course use solar panels and other forms of alternative energy. they are pretty popular and getting to be a big thing. you can buy a "green house" in nearly every city now and once its more popular the prices will drop and then theyll be even more popular

[FORSAKENR320]

And I'm sure everyone can just grow government hydro from the schwag rotting in the backseat of their 89 Chevy. I'd be controlling the good stuff!
Oh but the flamethrower idea is the BEST plan.
I wear a gas mask as the task is accomplished. The smoke hooks the little peons looking for salvation.
They come to me for their fix.

lol. do you know how to grow hydro?

[Psykopath]

thats a good point that everyone is forgetting... those people that run thier AC on 50 usually are paying to be able to do so.
unless california is loaded with apartments like mine.... which do not have to pay for any of their bills, including air conditioner...

But you're still wasting energy, is also the point.

There is no need to run an AC at 50 in the winter. Nor is their any reason to nail shut a 2nd floor window.

[Psykopath]

lol. do you know how to grow hydro?

No

But I'd learn many illegal trades during such trying times.

[Psykopath]

the green houses i was referring to are homes that are built out of largely recyclable material and super energy efficient on their own. taking advantage of environmental aspects around the home and exterior/interior space and alternative building materials. they also of course use solar panels and other forms of alternative energy. they are pretty popular and getting to be a big thing. you can buy a "green house" in nearly every city now and once its more popular the prices will drop and then theyll be even more popular

Ahhhhh, yes, those are nifty too.

http://www.ecohouseplan.com/index.html
quick example

This post has been edited by Psykopath: Jan 11 2008, 03:28 PM

[FORSAKENR320]

the green houses i was referring to are homes that are built out of largely recyclable material and super energy efficient on their own. taking advantage of environmental aspects around the home and exterior/interior space and alternative building materials. they also of course use solar panels and other forms of alternative energy. they are pretty popular and getting to be a big thing. you can buy a "green house" in nearly every city now and once its more popular the prices will drop and then theyll be even more popular

there is a house in town i really like. it's pretty much all under ground except the roof and some small is windows to let natural light in. it cost almost nothing to heat, and nothing to air condition, due to the earth insulation. is almost tornado proof too, unless you drop a volkswagon directly on the roof. all around, yea, you're the wierd guy living in a hole in the ground according to your nieghbors, but it's a good idea, especially with the amount of lawn you gain.... put your garden there

But you're still wasting energy, is also the point.

There is no need to run an AC at 50 in the winter. Nor is their any reason to nail shut a 2nd floor window.

people have ladders... ::squint ::

[impala454]

the green houses i was referring to are homes that are built out of largely recyclable material and super energy efficient on their own. taking advantage of environmental aspects around the home and exterior/interior space and alternative building materials. they also of course use solar panels and other forms of alternative energy. they are pretty popular and getting to be a big thing. you can buy a "green house" in nearly every city now and once its more popular the prices will drop and then theyll be even more popular

[Psykopath]

people have ladders... ::squint ::

Your paranoia is hurting your ability to rationally live, Brandon.

[FORSAKENR320]

No

But I'd learn many illegal trades during such trying times.

true...... i know alot of shady people... but i don't know anyone that can grow hydro.... but i think i know a guy who knows a guy..... Tek?

[FORSAKENR320]

Your paranoia is hurting your ability to rationally live, Brandon.

lies! i also have an issue opening a window that sits directly above a nasty smelling dumpster

[chook]

where do they have 60% efficient pv cells? My coworker did his masters thesis of pv cells, and the best are around 20 % and they are multi layered and expensive.

After being subsidized and regular use, they pay themselves off in 15 years here in Arizona.

[FORSAKENR320]

[Hartmann]

where do they have 60% efficient pv cells? My coworker did his masters thesis of pv cells, and the best are around 20 % and they are multi layered and expensive.

After being subsidized and regular use, they pay themselves off in 15 years here in Arizona.

Who mentioned 60%?

I bolded the key word in your post. The subsidization is great but how long do they subsidize for?

[moebary]

haha, why is the solution to everything more control by the government?

why doesn't california get off their fucking lazy asses and fix their energy production system? solar cells are 60% efficient now thus making it cheaper than COAL... build a fucking solar power station already and quit fucking with peoples' thermostats

lance did

[Hartmann]

lance did

Thanks. I went through but couldn't find 60%... Guess I should have used Firefox's search

[Oasis]

true...... i know alot of shady people... but i don't know anyone that can grow hydro.... but i think i know a guy who knows a guy..... Tek?

I know how to, sadly.

And no I've never grown it. I've just seen plenty of people grow it

[The Fanatic]

you are thinking of spivey.

ive lived in places with mandatory water rationing. they CUT the water for an extended period of time. no water flowing to anyones house. if they can do that they can do what they want to conserve electricity imo

Ummm no.

I never washed and dried one towel in the drier on max dry. When I did laundry, I washed entire loads and dried them. Don't involve me in your quarrels, thanks.


BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOUR THERMOSTAT!

This post has been edited by The Fanatic: Jan 13 2008, 04:03 PM

[chook]

Who mentioned 60%?

I bolded the key word in your post. The subsidization is great but how long do they subsidize for?

Its a one time thing. Google Tucson solar energy or something

[FORSAKENR320]

Ummm no.

I never washed and dried one towel in the drier on max dry. When I did laundry, I washed entire loads and dried them. Don't involve me in your quarrels, thanks.
BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOUR THERMOSTAT!

i don't think there is a quarrel anymore, at least not on my side. i'm finished acting like a baby, unless a hot chick really wants me too...