Sen Craig Options

[pebkac]

Craig's resigning

My favorite part of the article is this last part:

Craig also was an opponent of expanding the rights of gay Americans, a stance that drew charges of hypocrisy from gay rights advocates after his arrest became public. He has supported a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage and opposed extending a federal hate-crime law to cover violent acts based on a victim's sexual orientation.

[psidancer]

That karma will get get you every time.

[pebkac]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/WireSto...1012&page=1

Uh huh. So Craig (a senator from a state with a Republican governor) gets prodded out of office for something that's questionable at best. Meanwhile David Vitter (a senator from a state with a Democrat governor who would theoretically replace him with a Democrat) gets to stay in office after getting caught with prostitutes.

Politics and double standards ahoy!

[zetec]

i wouldn't call it a political double standard. I would place that one in the "better press team/spin doctors" category.

It's all about how fast you can spin, and in what direction.

[blaarg]

seriously, how many Craig threads are we going to have?

[chook]

Wonder If I'll see any on my next company trip.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

i wouldn't call it a political double standard. I would place that one in the "better press team/spin doctors" category.

It's all about how fast you can spin, and in what direction.

I disagree...I think it is a double-standard....they're saying...."it's ok to have extramarital affairs and solicit prostitutes, but being gay is NOT allowed" I think if Craig had to resign for this, then Vitter should also be forced to resign for his little scandal.

[Spectatrix]

Craig reconsiders resignation, Republicans cry "no backsies!"

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/05/craig/index.html

[impala454]

gah i wish he'd just either resign or not resign... gettin so sick of hearin about this on the news

[pebkac]

Agreed. It's really just hurting his case. The best thing he could do is just come out of the closet and come clean. But that would probably be a very bad idea politically.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

God, he's like herpes! The gift that keeps on giving, but you don't want!

I find it awfully odd that he ACCIDENTALLY left that voicemail on a stranger's voicemail. Wouldn't the lawyer's mailbox say his full name? Sounds like a publicity stunt to me.

BTW, supposedly Michael Vick's lawyer has been hired by Craig.

[Mommy]

I disagree...I think it is a double-standard....they're saying...."it's ok to have extramarital affairs and solicit prostitutes, but being gay is NOT allowed" I think if Craig had to resign for this, then Vitter should also be forced to resign for his little scandal.

extramarital affairs cant really be equated with sexually harrassing unsuspecting males in public restrooms. so, no, its not a double standard.

[Mommy]

Here is an excerpt from an Austin American Statesman article that ran last week. Its by a columnist named John Kelso. I love his writing. This article had me rolling on the floor... Too bad I cant copy and paste the whole thing without signing up for an online subscription. If i can find the article in my room, I'll scan it though.

Travel warning: Senators could be in the bathrooms

Air travel is inconvenient enough without having to worry about the Republicans in the men's room. It's one thing to have to take off your shoes while you're going through security. It's another to have a Republican taking off his pants in the bathroom.

Take the case of Sen. Larry Craig of Idaho, who pleaded guilty to misdemeanor disorderly conduct after a cop accused him of soliciting sex in a public men's room...



I have really gotten into Kelso lately... he is awesome

[pebkac]

extramarital affairs cant really be equated with sexually harrassing unsuspecting males in public restrooms. so, no, its not a double standard.

If sexually harassing means attempting to engage in a totally consensual act, ok. The only reason it was illegal was that Craig theoretically wanted to have sex in a public restroom.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

extramarital affairs cant really be equated with sexually harrassing unsuspecting males in public restrooms. so, no, its not a double standard.

I dont think you read what i wrote....

its not the sexual harrassment thats being equated....it's the fact that it's been OTHER MEN who he's been engaging in sex with that makes it the double standard.

They're wanting him gone because he's having sex with men(sticking him in the league with us gays). They could care less about Vitter because he was having sex with women...prostitutes, but women. The double standard lies in that right there.

[impala454]

If sexually harassing means attempting to engage in a totally consensual act, ok. The only reason it was illegal was that Craig theoretically wanted to have sex in a public restroom.

yeah but wanting to have sex is not illegal. that's where i don't get this stuff. or the 20/20 predator BS, or anything where they arrest the person on perceived intentions.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

yeah but wanting to have sex is not illegal. that's where i don't get this stuff. or the 20/20 predator BS, or anything where they arrest the person on perceived intentions.

I dont mean to sound like a gay advocate, but what these police bathroom stings are is an attack on the "gay community" although most of the men who cruise for sex in bathrooms do not identify as gay (Craig is aperfect example).

This shit is happening all over....police are even going on Craigslist and other websites and trying to bust people for prostitution without an exchange of money occurring. Just like in this situation, theyre making the arrest BEFORE the act happens.

Hell, it's an attack on SEX in general. This country is insane about curbing sexual activity of any type. Thanks to our religious right-wing zealot friends, sex is EVILLLL!!

[impala454]

well i dunno about all that, i just wonder how the hell "intent" can be an arrestable offense. no matter what the crime. if i load my .45, buy a roll of duct tape, some trash bags and a shovel, should i be arrested?

[theIncredibleEdi...]

well i dunno about all that, i just wonder how the hell "intent" can be an arrestable offense. no matter what the crime. if i load my .45, buy a roll of duct tape, some trash bags and a shovel, should i be arrested?

That stuff is honestly happening....

[pebkac]

well i dunno about all that, i just wonder how the hell "intent" can be an arrestable offense. no matter what the crime. if i load my .45, buy a roll of duct tape, some trash bags and a shovel, should i be arrested?

I think it depends on the situation. If the cops were able to prove that Craig was going to have sex in public, that would be sufficient grounds for arrest.

As it stands, the officer could not prove that Craig wanted to have public sex. For all he knows, he could have intended to take the officer someplace private.

[JRockTTU]

I dont mean to sound like a gay advocate, but what these police bathroom stings are is an attack on the "gay community" although most of the men who cruise for sex in bathrooms do not identify as gay (Craig is aperfect example).

This shit is happening all over....police are even going on Craigslist and other websites and trying to bust people for prostitution without an exchange of money occurring. Just like in this situation, theyre making the arrest BEFORE the act happens.

Hell, it's an attack on SEX in general. This country is insane about curbing sexual activity of any type. Thanks to our religious right-wing zealot friends, sex is EVILLLL!!

I could care less if they're busting this behavior in bathrooms. I don't care if it's gay or straight, I don't want two people having any kind of sex while I'm in a public bathroom. Go have sex in a motel or at someone's house, bet you won't get caught there.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

I could care less if they're busting this behavior in bathrooms. I don't care if it's gay or straight, I don't want two people having any kind of sex while I'm in a public bathroom. Go have sex in a motel or at someone's house, bet you won't get caught there.

Well, for some (the closeted ones) its one of the few places they can find sex. And for the gays, it's mostly in the thrill of anonymous sex.

But i agree that public sex is a nuissance.

[Mommy]

If sexually harassing means attempting to engage in a totally consensual act, ok. The only reason it was illegal was that Craig theoretically wanted to have sex in a public restroom.

he was attempting to play footsy with the guys in the stall next to him. Youre just sticking up for the guy because he could possibly be gay, a lifestyle you associate yourself with. I dont know a PC way of putting this so Im just going to say it: I wouldnt stick up for an albino if she was caught doing something illegal, as white as I may be. I absolutely detest arguements of this sort. Additionally, this wasnt a public restroom in a club... it was in an airport. If something like this were to happen in a dual sex bathroom (supposing they existed ...and Im not talking about a family restroom), then you better damn well believe that if some guy was making leude gestures to be from underneath the stall, that I would report his ass. Additionally, because homosexuality isnt considered to be a 100% accepted across the board kind of thing, he should have known better. Of course there are going to be guys out there that are downright offended because they think its a perversion.... Just as some consider prostitutes (not that Im equating the two, but someone referred to prostitutes in pointing out a double standard) to be filth. You have to know your audience.... an airport isn't the first place I would think of when trying to pick up a homo.

[Mommy]

well i dunno about all that, i just wonder how the hell "intent" can be an arrestable offense. no matter what the crime. if i load my .45, buy a roll of duct tape, some trash bags and a shovel, should i be arrested?

because he was making leude gestures, obscene noises, and trying to play footsy... thats inappropriate behavior no matter what sex of person you are harrassing.

[impala454]

well i heard some more info on this this morning... apparently it was airport cops that arranged the sting, not the FBI or real cops. they had no charge to arrest him on, so they scared him into signing a document admitting guilt of "disorderly conduct". the bottom line is they had zero charge to arrest him on. touching someone's foot is not an arrestable offense. if it is, we have a lot more to worry about than a gay senator. look at the 20/20 BS, they take the guys into custody but they're never charged with anything. i'm surprised the cops don't get the pants sued off of them.

[Mommy]

they only did that after several people complained about him being inappropriate.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

he was attempting to play footsy with the guys in the stall next to him. Youre just sticking up for the guy because he could possibly be gay, a lifestyle you associate yourself with. I dont know a PC way of putting this so Im just going to say it: I wouldnt stick up for an albino if she was caught doing something illegal, as white as I may be. I absolutely detest arguements of this sort. Additionally, this wasnt a public restroom in a club... it was in an airport. If something like this were to happen in a dual sex bathroom (supposing they existed ...and Im not talking about a family restroom), then you better damn well believe that if some guy was making leude gestures to be from underneath the stall, that I would report his ass. Additionally, because homosexuality isnt considered to be a 100% accepted across the board kind of thing, he should have known better. Of course there are going to be guys out there that are downright offended because they think its a perversion.... Just as some consider prostitutes (not that Im equating the two, but someone referred to prostitutes in pointing out a double standard) to be filth. You have to know your audience.... an airport isn't the first place I would think of when trying to pick up a homo.

It's almost laughable to suggest that we would stick up for Craig because he could possibly be gay. Senator Craig has a VERY long track record of voting on anti-gay issues. The support of him wouldn't be because he's possibly gay...it would be to show compassion....which the right-wingers have NONE.

His cruising for sex in a bathroom stems from all the homophobia that we are subjected to in America. I'll bet that his whole life he's been told that his "urges" or attractions were SINFUL and EVIL. THAT is what drove him to get married and seek out sex from men in public restrooms. This is something we don't expect you to understand, because you haven't had to live in this position.

[Mommy]

It's almost laughable to suggest that we would stick up for Craig because he could possibly be gay. Senator Craig has a VERY long track record of voting on anti-gay issues. The support of him wouldn't be because he's possibly gay...it would be to show compassion....which the right-wingers have NONE.

His cruising for sex in a bathroom stems from all the homophobia that we are subjected to in America. I'll bet that his whole life he's been told that his "urges" or attractions were SINFUL and EVIL. THAT is what drove him to get married and seek out sex from men in public restrooms. This is something we don't expect you to understand, because you haven't had to live in this position.

Could a gay person not identify himself with Craig?... Craig perhaps has had to lead an "in the closet" lifestyle because he lives in a predominately Republican, right-wing state, but he also enjoys the political life. So yes, I do think the gay community will stand behind him.

[theIncredibleEdi...]

Could a gay person not identify himself with Craig?... Craig perhaps has had to lead an "in the closet" lifestyle because he lives in a predominately Republican, right-wing state, but he also enjoys the political life. So yes, I do think the gay community will stand behind him.

Living a closeted lifestyle is happening ALL over the U.S....not just in the "red states."

[Epic]

and a big part of the gay lifestyle is reaching a point where you can be proud of who you are, and not ashamed/afraid and thus closeted.

gays are often privately supportive of closeted individuals to help the come out, but as a community not very supportive because the person has to be out in order for them to be a part of that community.

that's why the gays are always "bashing" (giving a hard time to) people like Tom Cruise, Gary Anderson, and others that are perceived/understood to be gay, but not publicly out.

[Mommy]

Living a closeted lifestyle is happening ALL over the U.S....not just in the "red states."

I didnt say that it didnt happen all over the US. I think you try to make points with my statements that just arent there. Just because I say one thing doesnt mean you can negate it to mean the opposite.

[dauss]

And for the gays, it's mostly in the thrill of anonymous sex.

and superaids?

[Spectatrix]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this yet... Senator Craig's request to withdraw his guilty plea was denied (harshly) BUT he's decided that he's not going to resign after all (surprise, surprise): http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/04/cra...rest/index.html

[Hartmann]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this yet... Senator Craig's request to withdraw his guilty plea was denied (harshly) BUT he's decided that he's not going to resign after all (surprise, surprise): http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/04/cra...rest/index.html

I am really torn on the whole thing now as I listen to more and more information. No one knows why Craig chose that bathroom, was it near his gate?

Also, he never engaged in a sexual act (though some on this board would make you believe he was on his knees in the stall). The charge was a misdemeanor, something that the senate ethics committee never approaches (otherwise lots of people would be in trouble).

I think he did give the Republican Party a black eye with this one but I am still not sure he's even really guilty or just stupid.

[Spectatrix]

Whether he's guilty or not, I'm just tired of his flip-flopping on resignation.

"Oh, I'm going to resign!"
"Well... if I can't get the guilty plea withdrawn, I'll resign..."
"No never mind, just kidding!"

[pebkac]

Agreed.