Wal-Mart suffers a blow... Options

[pysex]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/28/business...nyt&emc=rss

Frustrated by a bruising, and so far unsuccessful battle to open its first discount store in the nation’s largest city, Wal-Mart’s chief executive said yesterday, “I don’t care if we are ever here.”

H. Lee Scott Jr., the chief executive of the nation’s largest retailer, said that trying to conduct business in New York was so expensive — and exasperating — that “I don’t think it’s worth the effort.”

Mr. Scott’s remarks, delivered at a meeting with editors and reporters of The New York Times, amounted to a surprising admission of defeat, given the company’s vigorous efforts to crack into urban markets and expand beyond its suburban base in much of the country. In recent years, Wal-Mart has encountered stout resistance to its plans to enter America’s bigger cities, which stand as its last domestic frontier.

Much of the opposition to Wal-Mart in cities like New York is led by unions. Organized labor, fearing that the retailer’s low prices and modest wages will undercut unionized stores, have built anti-Wal-Mart alliances with Democratic members of city councils.

Yesterday, labor leaders, upon learning of Wal-Mart’s apparent retreat from New York — or at the very least Manhattan — returned Mr. Scott’s sentiment.

“We don’t care if they’re never here,” said Ed Ott, executive director of the New York City Central Labor Council. “We don’t miss them. We have great supermarkets and great retail outlets in New York. We don’t need Wal-Mart.”

For Wal-Mart, New York City has long loomed as a tantalizing prize — the home of more than eight million consumers and attention-grabbing stores for just about every major retailer in the country.

But Wal-Mart, a cost-minded retailer known for its dowdy merchandise, and New York, a city of excesses known for cutting-edge style, have long had an uneasy relationship.

Wal-Mart executives have argued that low prices would be the universal language that bridged the gap. So far, they have not.

During the questioning, Mr. Scott repeatedly referred to New York, but after the meeting a Wal-Mart spokeswoman, Mona Williams, called to say that Mr. Scott was referring to only Manhattan, not the entire city.

Wal-Mart, which has nearly 4,000 stores in the United States, has sought to open stores in Rego Park, Queens, and in Staten Island, but both plans fell through in the face of intense union, community and political opposition.

Mr. Scott said yesterday that the opposition to Wal-Mart in New York, Chicago, Cleveland, Los Angeles and other cities had a common thread: “The glue is the unions.”

Despite setbacks in each of these cities, Wal-Mart has had success in urban areas. In Chicago, for example, Wal-Mart opened a store last year that attracted thousands of job applicants and has, Mr. Scott said, performed better than expected.

He said that Wal-Mart executives have lobbied for a store in New York, but he said he remains unconvinced. “It’s too hard to make money here,” he said.

Late yesterday, Ms. Williams sought to amend Mr. Scott’s remarks.

“Entering New York has been difficult, but not something we rule out,” she said in an interview. “Lee said he personally didn’t care if we built stores there or not. It might be more trouble than it’s worth, but that he would leave that up to the real estate group that makes these decisions.”

As he does in many public appearances, Mr. Scott was quick yesterday to talk up the chief potential benefit of a Wal-Mart in New York City, particularly for its many struggling residents with modest incomes: lower prices because of the chain’s vast purchasing power and highly efficient distribution system.

Surveys have repeatedly shown that Wal-Mart’s grocery prices are typically 10 to 30 percent lower than those of its competitors.

But labor leaders assert that while Wal-Mart’s prices are low, its wages and health benefits are often so skimpy that they leave many workers below the poverty line and pressure competitors to reduce pay and benefits.

“We don’t like how they do business,” Mr. Ott, the New York union official, said.

But as Mr. Scott sees it, there is another reason Wal-Mart has such a hard time making inroads into some of the nation’s biggest enclaves. Speaking about what he sees as snobbish elites in New York and across the country, Mr. Scott added, “You have people who are just better than us and don’t want a Wal-Mart in their community.”

[GOB]

unions can go to hell

heil wal-mart

[Mommy]

how do college students in NYC survive?

[Seeker]

yes! unions can do good

[impala454]

fine by me... let them new yorkers keep payin $8 for a gallon of milk

[pysex]

how do college students in NYC survive?

there are probably other local stores that offer competitive prices....or maybe regular chain grocery stores which are average priced


or college students in new york are just really rich and buy versache milk

[griseyeux]

there are probably other local stores that offer competitive prices....or maybe regular chain grocery stores which are average priced
or college students in new york are just really rich and buy versache milk

*versace

no, they buy the same stuff as us but they pay 2-3 dollars more. I've asked Mike about shopping there he said it blows. They do have targets though.

[FORSAKENR320]

how do college students in NYC survive?

new yorkers don't go to college.... they all live in ghetto's and die before they are 22 in gang wars

[cupcake]

I was an undergraduate student at NYU and lived in manhattan. I'lll try to illustrate the kind of shit college kids do.

how do you survive? If you are paying your own way like I have my whole life...roughly...really rough. MOST students at NYU are rich kids. if you have enough money, you have no problems. and I'd wager 95% of those kids had no problems like how am I going to afford milk?

when we middle classers think rich kid, we're wrong. the kids there are much richer across the board than any school in texas I'll tell you that right now. I'd bet my life on it. No I wasn't the only texan there...in fact most people at NYU are not new yorkers...they are from all across the globe. but they are all rich...yes.

before we even get into cost of living let's look at the expenses up front...in 1997 it was $15,000 a semester tuition. in university housing rent was $1275 a month. meal plan $$ I cannot remember, but I mine was 2 meals a day at the chowhalls. they were like going to a restaurant...so I'd wager much more pricey than at tech.

so ok...all those expenses and two meals a day were covered by my scholarship and what's left over was student loans. it was a good $25-30 grand a semester ...I really don't know the specifics because the financial aid office there did pretty much everything for you. Like I didn't have a computer...so they "gave" me an allowance for a laptop.

so now that tuition, some meals, and rent are covered by scholarships and loans, what is left is daily living.

I had the GI beer fund which was $550 monthly at the time, and also had a job at a snowboard shop working about 20 hours a week.

at the base of one of the trade towers, there was this kind of walmart store called Century 21 (weird huh? like the realtor, but not even remotely related). they had coffee makers and pillows and shit you need to buy in order to live, because you sure as hell aren't moving that stuff up there. you're not driving your prelude from amarillo...and you're not taking that shit on the plane. it was the only thing remotely like a walmart back then. now new york has target, so that's cool.

so where the fuck do you buy groceries? after living there several years, man I'd still like to know that!!!!!!!!! yeah they have groceries, but they are through the roof richie ass delis with kosher milk or some falafels and shit...

when you do manage to find a decent deli/market, you can only buy so much, because your black ass is schlepping it on the subway back to your apt. I'm a strong dude and more than four plastic sacks get heavy after humping all over that island.

I lived like a bloody butthole. other kids are all out hitting up manhattan nightlife...I instead had to figure out shit to do for free.

people talk about how new york is not the place to be poor...but I disagree. if you wanna shop and eat out all the time, yeah it would suck. but I would rather be poor in NYC than in LBK. at least there is culture and rad museums and history and shit.

I experienced two lives in NY. my gangraped asshole life, and the life of my jewish girlfriend. it was through her that I saw how the normal students actually did shit.

To answer jessica's question in a REALLY long-winded way...college kids in new york don't need walmart to survive. they order their groceries delivered by the already expensive ass deli/groceries. they buy their home shit at anthropologie or places like that. they get their clothes at rad manhattan stores.

in general...manhattan does not need nor want walmart.

[pysex]

well thanks for reaffirming my desire to never live in new york city...

i would prefer to have open space and air and cheaper living than museums, history, and artsy fartsy...


if i became a billionaire sometime later in life...i might try it out


and although i dislike walmart as much as the other guy...it's still very much useful when you need that certain something that costs 20 dollars more anywhere else...

*versace

shows you how much i care about that poo poo

[griseyeux]

although i dislike walmart as much as the other guy...it's still very much useful when you need that certain something that costs 20 dollars more anywhere else...
shows you how much i care about that poo poo

are you referring to tranny prostitutes? because you're right they are much cheaper at wal-mart.

[impala454]

damn... nice little insight there... never really wanted to live in new york. i bet that $1275 a month was for like 400 sq ft or something wasnt it? wouldn't mind visiting though.

[cupcake]

pysex, I'm an outdoors guy too. but the energy of that city is worth everyone living there for at least 6 months I'd say. I came straight to LBK(where I lived from birth til I was 11) from NY and didn't realize how much I missed the simplicity of it all. now, after living in san diego, nyc, and dallas I can and do honestly say I would rather live in west texas than any place I've ever visited or lived.

impala, that was for half the rent of luxury 1 bedroom apt downtown. the school assigned you a roomate like at normal schools, and it was up to y'all who decided got the large bedroom and who got the living room; both had their pros/cons. it really was quite a deal considering how expensive housing is there.

however dorm space itself is limited to 18yr old freshmen "on campus" (washington sq park in grenwich village). so anyone older than that got univeristy subsidized housing. the school basically had their own floors in buildings throughout the island.

for shits and giggles I found it online...obviously it's gone up in price over the past 8-10 years...but at $4800-$5800, I didnt think it would double?!

the exchange

[Hartmann]

It sounds like I would much prefer Boston to NYC. I had similar questions about where people bought groceries and stuff when I was in Boston so my girlfriend and I kept our eyes open for grocery stores, delis, etc.

We saw two grocery stores in downtown Boston as well as three, yes, three CVSs. We didn't see a Wal-Mart or Target but there were more Dunkin' Donuts than Starbucks. They were everywhere, at the Subway, on every corner, in the schools...

I imagine NYC is more expensive than Boston but I made it a point to go to Beacon Hill (the rich area), the North End (think little Italy, but don't call it that), and Southie (lower class, some projects). Beacon Hill is $5 million 2 bedroom condos, the North End is affordable ($1500 for a large 2 bedroom), and Southie is just what you see in the movies, row houses with people on their front porches.

I saw a ton of people on the T carrying groceries. There seems to be a huge uproar there about the price of the subway... Boston has the oldest subway system in the U.S., it doesn't reach everywhere, and it's old yet they pay more than NYC citizens (who have a better subway system).

[cupcake]

man I love boston. what a rad city. it's the kind of place that you just feel smarter being there...if that makes any sense?

when I was in NY one of my buddies was in school in cambridge so I'd head down to visit him and vice-versa.

first time I arrived there after living in NY for 6 months I was flabbergasted at how nice boston was. like NY is...well NY. cross between "taxi driver" and "sex in the city". but boston, man the T was clean and nice!! and you could actually see the sky.

but where he lived it was just as pricey as where I was. the difference being the style in which they lived. it was in those 4 story, skinny flats with access to each floor and a very communal/open feel as opposed to my "Jeffersons" style with the doorman, locked doors, deal.

there were like 8 people living in that thing and they all shared a kitchen on I think the 2nd floor. it was odd to me.

NYU only leased one floor at our apt...so the rest were these super uptight wall st. types. So imagine Joe Banker's consternation every morning as he heads to work...when he gets on his millionaire elevator with the elevator dude (I don't know why there's a dude in a semi military uniform to push the button for your floor, but whatever)...and he sees my dumbass living in his high rise. I relished the looks on their faces. They'd all thought they'd "made it"...and here's some crappy college kid from texas.

also, cambridge is populated with a bunch of eccentric brainiac weirdos, whereas I was in school with princes and long island mob daughters and shit.

[pysex]

my main problem with new york is the people that live there...

i don't know if their attitudes have changed since 9/11 but i've had family members (that live in the niagra falls area) tell me that many new yorkers can be some of the world's worst assholes

now down here we get a bunch of ignorant fuckup redneck country boys.... but i'd take ignorance over snooty anyday

[Hartmann]

man I love boston. what a rad city. it's the kind of place that you just feel smarter being there...if that makes any sense?

when I was in NY one of my buddies was in school in cambridge so I'd head down to visit him and vice-versa.

first time I arrived there after living in NY for 6 months I was flabbergasted at how nice boston was. like NY is...well NY. cross between "taxi driver" and "sex in the city". but boston, man the T was clean and nice!! and you could actually see the sky.

but where he lived it was just as pricey as where I was. the difference being the style in which they lived. it was in those 4 story, skinny flats with access to each floor and a very communal/open feel as opposed to my "Jeffersons" style with the doorman, locked doors, deal.

there were like 8 people living in that thing and they all shared a kitchen on I think the 2nd floor. it was odd to me.

NYU only leased one floor at our apt...so the rest were these super uptight wall st. types. So imagine Joe Banker's consternation every morning as he heads to work...when he gets on his millionaire elevator with the elevator dude (I don't know why there's a dude in a semi military uniform to push the button for your floor, but whatever)...and he sees my dumbass living in his high rise. I relished the looks on their faces. They'd all thought they'd "made it"...and here's some crappy college kid from texas.

also, cambridge is populated with a bunch of eccentric brainiac weirdos, whereas I was in school with princes and long island mob daughters and shit.

No I understand what you mean... The people there know that the city that surrounds them is living history and they appreciate it. One lady saw me taking a picture of the state house (the gold dome in "The Departed") and came up to me and talked to me about it.

The Cambridge area, especially closer to Harvard, is extremely nice and there is a good mix of people. We saw a guy, who was young and homeless, begging by saying "Homeless because I chose Brown, the special-ed school of the Ivy League"... I mean, seriously, humorous and intelligent homeless people? That's awesome.

NYC just seems unappealing to me, you've got 8 million people living a space the size of the area within the 610 loop (303 miles of usable NYC, 310 miles inside the loop), that's nuts to me.

[cupcake]

pysex...I think that is a pretty common observation. I was around some real assholes in NY. it's millions of international people in on a tiny island.

but my experience was that the snots weren't native new yorkers. they were transplants..."cool" hipsters, trendy wannabee theater/actor/model/musician types, and snotty stock types.

I think they are what people encounter when they talk about rude new yorkers...considering that a huge part of the population.

but I worked with a bunch of crappy brooklyn skater guys and gals and holy shit were they nice people. like real touchy feely always hugging and slapping five and just real affectionate, like kissing the co-worker girls goodnight ont he cheek when we left work.

and then you have to factor in that the natives are used to just a revolving door/influx of people and are not used to seeing the same people everyday. when you're stuffed in with a bunch of people many of whom are weirdos or rude themselves, you tend not to do the "howdy" to everyone you meet.

however, once a waiter, door guy, bartender, etc sees you a couple more times, you'd be suprised how they think you're best friends. like they are really intersted in you and your life and care about you.

for example those guys who sell black market oakleys or rolexes out of the brief cases to tourists on the weekend. the first time he sees you he tries to sell you a bill of goods. next weekend, you're at the same bus stop and you see him hitting up the tourists again, and he sees you and just walks over and slaps five and is all "what's up brother?" and you start talking about how he's faring that day. then he asks you what you do there, and the next time he sees you he's all interested in how shool's going. it's wild.

I called it gradual intimacy (NY) versus instant familiarity (texas).

there are good people everywhere in the world.

[pysex]

That's good to know. I know that most everywhere you go you'll find some genuine down to earth folks. I guess it's just that New York is too busy and too big for their to be any personal feelings for me.

That same kind of asshole influx is happening in Austin right now. People are moving from California because of living expense and moving to Central Texas. I can tell you though...that kind of attitude they bring here won't settle too well with the natives. Texans don't take shit.

[cupcake]

nice observation on austin!

my brother lives there and man that place has changed the past 10-15 years big time.

changed for the lame...

[FORSAKENR320]

That's good to know. I know that most everywhere you go you'll find some genuine down to earth folks. I guess it's just that New York is too busy and too big for their to be any personal feelings for me.

That same kind of asshole influx is happening in Austin right now. People are moving from California because of living expense and moving to Central Texas. I can tell you though...that kind of attitude they bring here won't settle too well with the natives. Texans don't take shit.

those hippies can take their granola-whole-wheat enemas and get on back to their own homes

::loads shotgun::

[griseyeux]

I kind of want to move to austin. *shrug*

[Spectatrix]

I kind of want to move to austin. *shrug*

Oh, Austin's still fine. Don't let Alex scare you off.

[pysex]

No No. Austin is still a pretty fucking awesome city. The Californians have sort of made their own community in the western portion of the city where a lot of rich people live. Westlake, Bee Caves, and Lakeway...just to name a few. They are expanding more out towards the lakes in Central Texas but Austin is the closest major city.

[GOB]

californians ruin every city worth living in. denver is another example.

[The Fanatic]

[pysex]

Californians are like the walmart virus. They spread and bring about destructive changes in the local economy.

[The Fanatic]

Do they bring low prices and cheap labor too?

[FORSAKENR320]

Do they bring low prices and cheap labor too?

on prostitution, maybe

[chook]

californians ruin every city worth living in. denver is another example.

Screw you, I'm a native son! Its the socal people that do it.

[FORSAKENR320]

Screw you, I'm a native son! Its the socal people that do it.

i think you just proved his point....

[griseyeux]

i think you just proved his point....

um...not really because Chuck has not ruined a city yet....that I know of.

[The Fanatic]

A Texan destroyed Iraq...

[griseyeux]

A Texan destroyed Iraq...

zinger!!!

hahaha

[Testm0nkey]

austin isnt all that special

[pysex]

Screw you, I'm a native son! Its the socal people that do it.

you're the exception chucky chuck my honeybuns

[pysex]

austin isnt all that special

yeah? well you're a bitch! HOW ABOUT THAT

[False Dude]

yeah well Houston isn't all that special either. Austin has an upscale men's sneaker boutique. does Houston? no

[The Fanatic]

Houston blows

I hate that city

[GOB]

yeah well Houston isn't all that special either. Austin has an upscale men's sneaker boutique. does Houston? no

[False Dude]

Houston blows

I hate that city

have you ever actually been to houston outside of a family trip or school event? nobody outside of houston knows where to go or what to do in the city because of its size/spread. people in the city are too stuck in their suburbs to know the cool places
it was a couple of years ago but houston had the 2nd most restaurants in the nation, and the 2nd biggest arts/theater district.
the majority of people in houston are douches and have never even been to any of the world renown museums or shows there

[The Fanatic]

The cloud of smog and humidity/heat alone turned me off. I will admit, I have never done anything REALLY cool in Houston. But until someone offers me a detailed tour of the city, my opinion will remain.


I think it is just a little big for my personal tastes

This post has been edited by Dr. Gonzo: Mar 30 2007, 09:54 PM

[zetec]

Penn & Teller finally did an episode of Bullshit on "Wal-Mart Hating", and thank fucking god. It's about goddamn time someone spoke up and said,
"Hey, just because you're an elitist fuck doesn't mean I have to be one too"

seriously. torrent. watch. (episode 5x02 - http://www.eztvefnet.org)

[GOB]

A Texan destroyed Iraq...

whammy

[Seussninja]

Wal Mart fucking sucks, I approve of this decision.

[griseyeux]

Wal-mart is like that person you hook up with when your drunk and desperate and you tell yourself: "just this once" and then they give you their number and you never plan on calling them. Then a few months later, your still lonely and desperate and you find the number and call them and tell yourself:"just this once" again, but you keep calling them because the sex is free and easy.

That is wal-mart: a cheap whore, that many of us turn to because we just can't afford to pay 30 cents more for apples.

[Psykopath]

Wal-mart is like that person you hook up with when your drunk and desperate and you tell yourself: "just this once" and then they give you their number and you never plan on calling them. Then a few months later, your still lonely and desperate and you find the number and call them and tell yourself:"just this once" again, but you keep calling them because the sex is free and easy.

That is wal-mart: a cheap whore, that many of us turn to because we just can't afford to pay 30 cents more for apples.

so, so true.

[griseyeux]

I know.

[The Fanatic]

Wal mart is the only sensible place to shop in Lubbock since this city does not have HEB. Fuck United...

[griseyeux]

Wal mart is the only sensible place to shop in Lubbock since this city does not have HEB. Fuck United...

HEB is cheap and they have alot of booze

Hey spivey are you going to Abilene for Easter?

[The Fanatic]

No, I have to work on Easter. We are not closed.

[griseyeux]

No, I have to work on Easter. We are not closed.

that sucks
I'm sorry spivey.

[The Fanatic]

Are you going to Abilene?

[FORSAKENR320]

easter is for pussies





and jesus

[griseyeux]

Are you going to Abilene?

yeah, I barely have enough gas money to get down there, but I haven't left lubbock since christmas so I'm kind of restless to go back. plus I can get the hookup.

[The Fanatic]

And the pagan fertility festival


OH SNAP

[griseyeux]

And the pagan fertility festival
OH SNAP

HAHAHAHA!!!

[The Fanatic]

yeah, I barely have enough gas money to get down there, but I haven't left lubbock since christmas so I'm kind of restless to go back. plus I can get the hookup.

You should bring back a gift...

[griseyeux]

you know I will try to