Talk to your parents and see if you could exchange the car for a corolla. Better millage better than a hybrid when you consider the damage to the environment from the nickel smelter .

Yes. I don't like communists

Stumbled on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

Carbon-14 activity:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...vity_labels.png

Looks like we may be in the same situation now.

I don't doubt that we have some impact on the environment, but I don't think we're this huge force that will extinguish ourselves.

CFC's affects on our atmosphere have been proven. people went crazy about it demanding governments do something to stop it. they did and its pretty much been stopped. so its been proven that we have a HUGE impact on our environment.
people only care if they can see DIRECT and IMMEDIATE personal affects. like the spike in skin cancers that scientists predicted and got right. thats unfortunate

I should have said "impact on global warming"... Yeah, we have impact on the environment, just look at the Mississippi river, we try to control it but we fail.

CFCs cause ozone depletion (we think), yet we've seen spikes in ozone recently because of pollution (maybe it's time for people to start using aerosols again).

Do you have a link to the spike in skin cancers? If I remember correctly, there was a lot going on before the whole CFC scare, namely the fact that more and more women were tanning and wearing bikinis. Hmmm... correlation or causation.

Can you explain why we are seeing "warming" on other planets?

Did you read the link I posted? What were people doing in medieval times that caused that?

I'm all for conservation and understanding that the Earth is a system that we have and we should take care of. But I'm not going to go all out and back legislation to change things. We told everyone there was going to be nuclear holocaust in the 1950s, now we have a bunch of empty bomb shelters in people's backyards.

*bangs head on desk*

*bangs head on desk*

*bangs head on desk*

I hate the anti-global warming argument "Well its colder this year than the past couple" or "it's fucking cold outside now, where's global warming" and I also hate (equally) the scare tactics on the other side that the apocalypse is coming in the next 10 years because of global warming...

It makes sense to me (like Oasis, no graphs, etc....) that warming is a slow process that might change the global temperature 1 degree or so in 100 or so years, etc.... I do believe it is real, I don't think it is the apocalypse, and I think that we should change our environmental habits anyways regardless because if anyone thinks that pollution is a good thing, that's crazy....

I don't question the fact that we are warming. I question the notion that it's completely and utterly our fault.

What I pointed out with the above is that the warming/cooling trend we've experienced over the past 20 years is very similar to what the earth experienced hundreds of years ago.

We aren't fully to blame, of course, but we're at least partially to blame. I don't see too many ducks, chickens, or cows driving diesel trucks and SUV's. Although it'd be a pretty funny site.

And Dogmeat, stop saying anyone who disagrees with you is a communist, Nazi, member of the Taliban, etc. Unless you actually want to look like an ignorant fuck, then by all means keep saying it

By the same token, I don't see humans taking dumps in fields, producing methane, which, by all accounts and standards is just as bad as burning fossil fuels.

That's because you've never met my mom's side of the family

Well, obviously our planet's atmosphere is a lot more complicated than people on both sides want to make it out.

Two points:

1) The high points that you're talking about are more like MILLIONS of years ago. And that was due to high amounts of C02 in the atmosphere caused by heavy volcanic activity.

2) New scientist has a really good set of articles on the subject. Regarding the planetary issue: http://environment.newscientist.com/channe...-change/dn11642.

To make a long story short, yes we're warming, yes it's not all our doing, but it is primarily our doing.

my previous post wasn't directed at you, it was a general statement.

How can you say it's primarily our doing? By the standards of millions of years ago, we won't be able to say without a doubt that it was human fault for a few more million.

ozone on the surface is bad and is created by things like car emissions
ozone on ground bad = smog
ozone in atmosphere = necessity - CFC's specifically the breakdown to CL destroys it



people just dont know enough!


there was a medieval warm period, there was the little ice age. those were caused by natural occurances (huge volcano eruption for one)
you make a chart... chart the occurances of natural disruptions to weather... over that chart you lay the warming trend... there is a huge discrepancy... create another layer that shows our increase in pollution, burning of fossil fuels = they line up. thus showing the increase is not natural. thats where the "hockey stick" comes from

the BBC has an amazing documentary about it


edit: the documentary is called Meltdown. the host is paul rose and its a global warming for dummies with lots of scientific backup of course but made easy to understand