I think it is near impossible to say anything conclusive about the brain. It's the one piece of human anatomy that we understand very little about.

Through time things have gotten progressively more and more complex (fossil-wise). Just by observation things have "evolved" into more complex things.

Im not sure why science can't co-exist with faith. To me, if god made a world of free will, he wouldn't be able to show him self (or else do you really have a choice if you know the right and wrong?) and thus there would have to be a world based on rules to run without his intervention. Science explores the constants of our world. Just because science shows these rules and constants does not mean they disprove god, it just means they exist.

thats why its faith... you think it was random and happened on own, or was started by ...something. Either way, the rules and constants of the world we live in remain.

I actually agree with you very much Chicken.

If God is all powerful, why is He not powerful enough to create an evolutionary process.

All God has to do is put the wheels in motion and let them happen. He knows the result but He still lets it unfold.

so then you would believe in evolution just that it was started by god. but to not believe in evolution at all is a stretch to me


we actually know a whole lot about it. what they dont know about the brain is the more philosophical questions like the mind and consciousness. but you can read up on studies about every single glial cell and mylinazation of every single neuron and neural maps and brain recovery after trauma etc etc. the "big" stuff has been discovered a long time ago. its all about application now

The brain and its physical entities is still a huge mystery to scientists. There is so much they don't know. Saying otherwise is complete ignorance.

know what even more is? VAGINAS..... true story.

Before a fight breaks out... you're BOTH right. Scientists know a lot about the brain, but there's also a lot of stuff they still don't know. For instance, we don't know precisely how memory is imprinted, stored, and recalled: http://www.media.rice.edu/media/NewsBot.as...8943&SnID=2

I'm just saying that parts are still a mystery...unlike what Cathryn is attempting (but miserably failing) to argue

i never said we knew everything but its much less of a mystery than what an average person may think
but like i was saying through brain development you get a really cool picture of how evolution works

I am going to say that this was directed at me....

I am not talking down to them for believing something differently than me. Notice I never become hostile to anybody who says that god was the "initial mover" and he is the creator behind evolution, yada yada yada, because I believe that if you are religious, that is the most "valid" stance.

I become hostile towards people (who are most likely Christians) who say absurd things like the Earth is 6000 years old, something that has been proven/shown EXTENSIVELY to be false, yet they rehash the same "evidence" which has already been proven to be wrong or use their personal faith as "evidence"... I would put disbelief in evolution in the same category...

I don't see how upset you can be with the above statement...the entire forum condemns the whole Westboro Baptist Church for saying that soldiers death/hurricanes/murder rates are tied to America's acceptance of homosexuality, something that everyone would say is completely and utterly false (and most likely laughable). Here is a a stance that has no scientific justification what so ever, just the church's "faith" in the cause of all these terrible things. Is it not upsetting for you to see them take that position on faith alone? Wouldn't you have a condescending attitude if you were to ever talk to one of them, or would you say "golly shucks, I'm not being open minded enough concerning their different viewpoint, maybe I'm just a little insecure..." I think the answer is obvious...

You're making the very big assumption that we have free will and that our actions are driven by a conscious "choice" other than a natural reaction driven by past and present environmental conditions.

"That's why it's faith"... That's right. Believing in a far fetched possibility simply because the belief is impossible to disprove (like aliens, or scientology). That's faith. Just like it's faith that drives suicide bombers because they foolishly believe there is some amazing place waiting for them after they have taken their own and many other people's lives. However, do not be surprised the rest of the world is not as gullible as you and will not accept the belief just because it sounds good. And do not be surprised when people get up in arms when potential policy is made because of that unfounded belief.

I wouldn't care if religious people went around saying that they think there is a god, they think their religious book is factual, they think that by following their religion they will be given X [replace X with whatever you can think of that makes you feel good] after death because they followed that religion. That's not what they say. They say they know. But you don't know. So stop pretending you do. And especially do not make social policy based on this false knowing (like banning gay marriage, stem cell research, dancing [visit Anson, Tx if you don't believe me]). And do not, I repeat, do not, elect leaders who think they know. Because if you are not wise enough to see you do not know, you are not wise enough to lead one of the world's most powerful and advanced nations.

We've went over this before. Your argument over free will was not good then, and its not good now.

or let me guess, we're all too stupid to understand your point of view....

that's what faith is, knowing and believing, not thinking. now you know. it sounds like either 1. you had a bad experience with christians as a little boy and got all butt hurt or 2. you're jealous of people who actually have a purpose to live. normal atheists aren't as dickish as you.

and actually, i have been to anson...many times. i grew up 20 miles away. i've seen dancing, so you're wrong.

This post has been edited by jonathan83: Nov 16 2007, 09:22 PM

OK< this hopefully ties in more with the original thought of this thread, being crazy religious zealots. I work with a woman who claims to be a Christian......yet she seems to exhibit some highly UNChristian values. For one, she is GREEDY. All she ever talks about is getting stuff for free. Example: the other day I was talking to a co-worker about getting gift cards from my Best Buy Reward Zone account, and she butts in saying, "Oh, is that my Christmas present?" This lady does this shit all the time. Just yesterday, in fact, a vendor came and offered to take ONE of us to lunch....Christian lady butted in and invited herself along (knowing the vendor would pay). She bought the highest priced thing on the menu. She talks about having god-parents for her children for the sole purpose of that person providing her children with material possessions. My point is that some of the most hard-core Bible-thumping people can be the most hypocritical. Right-wing Republicans are also a good example.