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May 19 2009, 09:46 PM
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#1
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 706 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 20 |
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Senate-OKs-b...7858.html?.v=27
QUOTE WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate voted overwhelmingly on Tuesday to rein in credit card rate increases and excessive fees, hoping to give voters some breathing room amid a recession that has left hundreds of thousands of Americans jobless or facing foreclosure. The House was on track to pass the measure as early as Wednesday, paving the way for President Barack Obama to see the bill on his desk by week's end. "This is a victory for every American consumer who has ever suffered at the hands of a credit card company," said Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., chairman of the Banking Committee. The bill passed the Senate 90-5. If enacted into law as expected, the bill woul give the credit card industry nine months to change the way it does business: Lenders would have to post their credit card agreements on the Internet and let customers pay their bills online or by phone without an added fee. They'd also have to give consumers a chance to spare themselves from over-the-limit fees and provide 45 days notice and an explanation before interest rates are increased. Some of these changes are already on track to take effect in July 2010, under new rules being imposed by the Federal Reserve. But the Senate bill would put these changes into law and go further in restricting the types of bank fees and who can get a card. For example, the Senate bill requires those under 21 who seek a credit card to prove first that they can repay the money or that a parent or guardian is willing to pay off their debt if they default. Bankers warned the measure would restrict credit at a time when Americans need it most. They defended their existing interest rates and fees on grounds that their business -- lending money to consumers with no collateral and little more than a promise to pay it back -- is very risky. "What has been a short-term revolving unsecured loan will now become a medium-term unsecured loan, which is significantly more risky," said Edward Yingling, president and CEO of the American Bankers Association. "It is a fundamental rule of lending that an increase in risk means that less credit will be available and that the credit that is available will often have a higher interest rate," Yingling added. Voting against the Senate measure were GOP Sens. Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Robert Bennett of Utah, Jon Kyl of Arizona and John Thune of South Dakota, as well as Democratic Sen. Tim Johnson of South Dakota. But other senators didn't want to face voters in the 2010 election without proof that they are listening to constituents crushed by foreclosure rates and joblessness. Recent reports show that the number of foreclosures jumped 32 percent in April compared with the same month last year, while the jobless rate that month rose to 8.9 percent. The legislation would not cap interest rates as some lawmakers had hoped. It also wouldn't prevent lenders from finding new ways to drain customers' bank accounts or keep consumers from spending money they don't have. But it would give spenders more flexibility and outlaw many of the surprise costs associated with credit cards at a time when money is tight in most households. For example, under the bill, a cardholder would have to opt to be allowed to go over a credit limit. If customers don't agree and the bank authorizes a charge that would push them over their limit, the lender couldn't levy an over-limit fee. Another boon for consumers is limiting a practice known as "universal default," when a lender sharply increases a cardholder's interest rate on an existing balance because the customer is late paying that bill or other, unrelated bills. Under the new legislation, a customer would have to be more than 60 days behind on a payment before seeing a rate increase on an existing balance. Even then, the credit card company would be required to restore the previous, lower rate after six months if the cardholder pays the minimum balance on time. House Democratic leaders said they planned to move quickly. Last month, the House approved, by 357-70, a similar credit card bill by Rep. Carolyn Maloney, D-N.Y. Complicating the issue somewhat was a measure added to the Senate bill that would allow people to carry loaded guns in national parks and wildlife refuges. That provision, sponsored by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., passed, 67-29. House Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland told reporters on Tuesday that the House might vote separately on the gun proposal so as not to bog down the credit card overhaul. If the two bills are passedNo doubt that you guys have seen this, credit card reform. Aimed at stopping abusive policies that credit card companies force onto their customers. Good for those who have credit card debt and are getting hammered with so much interest that they cannot pay their balances down. However, with the high unemployment and more people defaulting on their credit card, the credit card companies are losing revenue. AXP had offered money to certain to close their accounts after they paid their balance in full to get rid of some of the riskier customers. A lot of other credit companies have taken a large chunk of credit card limits and reigning in how much debt a customer can ring up. separately as expected, they would be rejoined before being sent to the president as a single bill, said Hoyer. No doubt that you guys have seen this, credit card reform. Aimed at stopping abusive policies that credit card companies force onto their customers. Good for those who have credit card debt and are getting hammered with so much interest that they cannot pay their balances down. However, with the high unemployment and more people defaulting on their credit card, the credit card companies are losing revenue. AXP had offered money to certain to close their accounts after they paid their balance in full to get rid of some of the riskier customers. A lot of other credit companies have taken a large chunk of credit card limits and reigning in how much debt a customer can ring up. This is beneficial. The flip side of this is for someone like me. It is unknown what will happen in 9 months when the new laws are in place, but a majority of the profits that credit card companies are those who carry balances and pay interest. I've never paid interested. I've always paid my balance in full and on time. I haven't had my credit limit cut yet on my credit cards, but I'm considered one of those "deadbeats" from the credit card company's perspective. I have gotten a free ride using their services, getting cash back, and no annual fee. Those who have good credit may see cash back rewards disappear, annual fees coming back, and the firms also might impose interest charges on purchases immediately, eliminating the grace period. That would really suck for me. The credit card companies will have to revamp their business model and find out new ways to stay profitable when their main source of income has more protection. There could also be another benefit to this as well. Implementation could be a problem, but I think it will be overcome. Most businesses take credit cards, and the merchants have to pay a percentage back to the credit card companies for their service. There are strict agreements that prevent merchants from charging different prices on products if you pay with cash. You may have seen at a few mom and pop stores that will add $x.xx on top of whatever you are charging to a credit card or requiring a minimum charge just to offset these costs, but with this new legislation, merchants could very well discount purchases whatever percent if you pay with cash, and pay the full amount if you decided to use your credit card. -------------------- Beers that I have had, updated July 5th, 2009: 1,548
My Beer List "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" - Mahatma Gandhi |
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May 20 2009, 06:59 AM
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#2
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![]() Group: Admin Posts: 3,402 Joined: 23-February 06 From: PDX/TXL Member No.: 35 |
When I first saw this bill and heard the descriptions I thought it was a great idea, consumer protection, perfect! But the more I read it and the more I see of the effects of our economy on the credit card companies, the less inclined I am to like it.
Like you said, people who do not carry a balance (me) or carry one but pay it off regularly, are going to be penalized by the credit card companies. This bill is basically rewarding those people who are behind on their bills and do not understand money management. I have already had one my card's limits reduced after consistently paying it off on time and using it only when needed. The part I do agree with in the bill is the marketing of cards to kids under 18 and college students. Kids under 18 do not need a card, period. If they do need one, their parents can get them a card under their account. College kids may need a credit card, but they do not need a barrage of advertisements showing up in their mail everyday. This is another example of business being touted as the "big bad wolf", when in fact it's poor consumers who are the culprit. Of course, no politically minded person who wants to keep their job is going to point that out. Lastly, I agree with everything you've said dauss, except for the last paragraph. The fact that mom and pop stores charge minimums and give discounts for cash are spelled out in plain English in the contracts with the credit card companies. If these stores cannot afford to pay the merchant fees, then just don't accept credit cards. After dealing with merchants and credit card companies through both e-commerce stuff and credit card transaction software, the fees are minuscule if the business is actually doing a good amount of transactions. And, even if the business is only doing one or two credit card transactions a month but still brings in a lot of cash (through checks, cash, etc.), then the costs are completely offset. If the government thinks this is a good idea, then they should do the same to checks, which are less secure. My point is, a store can make money, even with credit card fees, easily, that is, if they are a good business and practice good business techniques. -------------------- "There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: that of the fashionable non-conformist." |
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May 20 2009, 08:37 AM
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#3
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Group: Admin Posts: 6,906 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9 |
I don't think that this bill rewards those who don't understand money management. I think it protects against some of the egregious abuses perpetuated by some card issuers in recent years. Sudden interest rate increases or limit decreases are not reasonable practices. While they certainly have a right to change those quantities, consumers deserve some notice and explanation, even if it's only 30 days. Maybe not all of the provisions in this bill are necessary, but many of them are.
That said, I'm gonna be pissed if they start penalizing their good borrowers to make up for it. If they do, I predict they'll see a large drop-off in card-holders, leaving most of their business in the hands of riskier borrowers. I might not mind a small annual fee, if my cash-back rewards outpace it, but I'll drop my AmEx like a hot potato if they eliminate the grace period. No way in hell am I paying interest when I pay off my card every month. Oh and Dauss, on the merchant fees... it's actually perfectly legal under the credit card contracts for merchants to offer a discount for cash. It's not legal for them to charge extra for credit card payments (and I know, it's basically the same thing) or require a minimum purchase amount. Interestingly, they also can't refuse your payment if you decline to show ID. -------------------- |
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May 20 2009, 09:07 AM
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#4
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![]() Oh baby bring me down Group: Agents Posts: 4,115 Joined: 23-February 06 From: Way out yonder Member No.: 68 |
Oh and Dauss, on the merchant fees... it's actually perfectly legal under the credit card contracts for merchants to offer a discount for cash. It's not legal for them to charge extra for credit card payments (and I know, it's basically the same thing) or require a minimum purchase amount. Interestingly, they also can't refuse your payment if you decline to show ID. Why do places have min purchases then? Can I tell them that is illegal and run my card? -------------------- Southern Rock, beer and bears!
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May 20 2009, 09:31 AM
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#5
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![]() Group: Admin Posts: 3,402 Joined: 23-February 06 From: PDX/TXL Member No.: 35 |
Why do places have min purchases then? Can I tell them that is illegal and run my card? It's not "illegal", it's the merchant's contractual obligation with the credit card companies to not have minimums charges. You can report Mastercard and American Express merchants online and VISA has a call-in number or address. I recently reported a local convenience store that has a minimum charge of $8 to use a credit or debit card. I told the guy he was shooting himself in the foot because he has to pay the monthly credit card fees, yet no one is going to use them because of the minimum charge. So he could lose the fee amount, or allow people to pay for items less than $8 and lose less. He told me to buy $4 more and I could pay... I walked out and told him I'd report him. http://usa.visa.com/about_visa/ask_visa/index.html#anchor_4 http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/c...violations.html https://www152.americanexpress.com/EformsWe...et&origin=6 -------------------- "There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: that of the fashionable non-conformist." |
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May 20 2009, 09:34 AM
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#6
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![]() Group: Admin Posts: 3,402 Joined: 23-February 06 From: PDX/TXL Member No.: 35 |
I don't think that this bill rewards those who don't understand money management. I think it protects against some of the egregious abuses perpetuated by some card issuers in recent years. Sudden interest rate increases or limit decreases are not reasonable practices. While they certainly have a right to change those quantities, consumers deserve some notice and explanation, even if it's only 30 days. Maybe not all of the provisions in this bill are necessary, but many of them are. That said, I'm gonna be pissed if they start penalizing their good borrowers to make up for it. If they do, I predict they'll see a large drop-off in card-holders, leaving most of their business in the hands of riskier borrowers. I might not mind a small annual fee, if my cash-back rewards outpace it, but I'll drop my AmEx like a hot potato if they eliminate the grace period. No way in hell am I paying interest when I pay off my card every month. Oh and Dauss, on the merchant fees... it's actually perfectly legal under the credit card contracts for merchants to offer a discount for cash. It's not legal for them to charge extra for credit card payments (and I know, it's basically the same thing) or require a minimum purchase amount. Interestingly, they also can't refuse your payment if you decline to show ID. But the interest increases and limit decreases are in the terms, the problem is, most people do not take the time to read them. They are already chopping off people's limits who spend decent amounts but pay off their bills, we don't make the credit cards any money. I doubt AmEx will start dropping people's limits just because their business model is much more fluid than Visa or Mastercard. -------------------- "There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: that of the fashionable non-conformist." |
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May 20 2009, 09:39 AM
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#7
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Group: Admin Posts: 6,906 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9 |
Like I said, I don't have a problem with them making changes, but they do need to give consumers sufficient notice when changes occur. I've read numerous news stories talking about card issuers jacking up the interest rate with little/no notice and no explanation given.
And we do make money for the credit cards. Every time we use a card, they get a % of the purchase from merchant fees. This post has been edited by Spectatrix: May 20 2009, 09:41 AM -------------------- |
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May 20 2009, 09:40 AM
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#8
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![]() Group: Admin Posts: 3,402 Joined: 23-February 06 From: PDX/TXL Member No.: 35 |
Like I said, I don't have a problem with them making changes, but they do need to give consumers sufficient notice when changes occur. I've read numerous news stories talking about card issuers jacking up the interest rate with little/no notice. And we do make money for the credit cards. Every time we use a card, they get a % of the purchase from merchant fees. Yeah, they make money that way, I guess I should have said, "they don't make a lot of money off us". We aren't credit card companies bread and butter. Plus, I'm pretty sure I cost my credit card money with the amount of airline miles I rack up on it and spend in a year. -------------------- "There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: that of the fashionable non-conformist." |
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May 20 2009, 09:43 AM
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#9
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Group: Admin Posts: 6,906 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9 |
Heh, quite true. It's a pretty sweet deal right now. I could see them scaling back rewards programs, but I think eliminating the grace period is gonna shoot them in the foot.
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May 20 2009, 11:05 AM
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#10
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Group: Admin Posts: 6,906 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9 |
Found this article: http://moneyfeatures.blogs.money.cnn.com/2...-means-for-you/
QUOTE Retroactive rate hikes: Both bills ban hikes to interest rates on existing balances. So say you carry a $1,000 balance at 8%. If the rate on your card changes, the new rate will apply only to new purchases going forward—the issuer won’t be able to start charging 19% on the previous balance. The only catch: If you fail to comply with a debt repayment workout plan or if you are more than 30 days (House bill) or 60 days (Senate bill) late on payments, all bets are off. What’s more, both bills prevent issuers from raising your interest rate during the first year of the card account. Penalty periods: If you are late and your rate goes up, the Senate bill states that if you pay your bill on time for 6 months in a row, you can reclaim the lower rate. Advance notification: Time was, your issuer could jack your card’s rate and only give you 15 days notice. No more. Both bills require that issuers must give you 45 days notice before making significant interest rate, fee and finance charge increases. Teaser rates: Both bills require that promotional rates must be offered for at least six months. Payment allocation: You may have a balance transfer on your card at one rate, while other purchases or balances accrue interest at a different, higher rate. Before this legislation, banks could apply your payment to the balance with the lowest interest rate first—so your more costly balance just kept racking up interest. Now, payments in excess of the minimum amount owed must first be applied to the balance with the highest interest rate first, and then to remaining balances in descending order. Due dates: Credit card statements must be mailed 21 days before the bill is due, up from the current 14. And no more odd timing deadlines for payments—payments received by 5 p.m. on the due date are on time. Payments with due dates that fall on holidays or weekends must be accepted by the next business day. Over-the-limit fees: Before, if you tried to charge above your credit limit, the issuer would approve the transaction and slap you with an “over-the-limit” fee. Now, consumers must opt in for over-the-limit approval—and the fees that come with it. Cards for young adults: The House bill stipulates that banks can’t issue cards to un-emancipated minors under the age of 18 unless a parent is the account holder. It also limits college students to just one credit card, sets credit limits to a percentage of the student’s income and requires parents to approve increases to credit limits on joint accounts. The Senate bill takes it even further, eliminating credit cards for people under the age of 21 unless an adult co-signs or they can show proof of income. Gift cards: The House bill doesn’t touch them, but the Senate bill states that gift cards can’t expire in less than five years. Retailers selling Visa, MasterCard, American Express or Discover-branded gift cards will have to print information on dormancy fees—charged when the card goes unused for a while—right on the cards themselves. Universal default: Both bills eliminate this practice, which allows a card issuer to raise your rates if it learns that you were late on another card. Account closings: The Senate bill doesn’t address it, but the House bill requires an issuer give you 30 days notice before it closes your account. I think that the teaser rate and gift card provisions are unnecessary and that the Senate's restriction on cards for adults under 21 perpetuates a dangerous precedent... either treat adults like adults or change the age of majority to 21. That said, I think showing proof of income is a good thing for credit cards in general. I think the other aspects of the bill are pretty good, though 30 days advance notification of rate/fee increases is probably plenty. -------------------- |
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May 20 2009, 11:13 AM
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#11
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,620 Joined: 23-February 06 From: Houston, TX Member No.: 48 |
I like the changes, though anyone with a balance better pay them off before this thing goes into effect. They're going to skyrocket everyone's rates just before this thing hits w/the "retroactive rates" rule.
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May 20 2009, 01:24 PM
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#12
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![]() Oh baby bring me down Group: Agents Posts: 4,115 Joined: 23-February 06 From: Way out yonder Member No.: 68 |
Yeah, they make money that way, I guess I should have said, "they don't make a lot of money off us". We aren't credit card companies bread and butter. Plus, I'm pretty sure I cost my credit card money with the amount of airline miles I rack up on it and spend in a year. You know of any good deals? I am thinking of replacing my credit card. -------------------- Southern Rock, beer and bears!
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May 20 2009, 02:02 PM
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#13
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Group: Admin Posts: 6,906 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9 |
You know of any good deals? I am thinking of replacing my credit card. Best cash-back rewards card is AmEx Blue Cash. Dunno about frequent flier mile programs. -------------------- |
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May 20 2009, 04:58 PM
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#14
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![]() DEATH TO ....something? Group: Members Posts: 5,618 Joined: 23-February 06 From: Parker, CO Member No.: 55 |
I have a great idea:
How about people just stop fucking buying shit they can't afford as if for some reason they were entitled to it? WOW. What a concept! -------------------- I r Ur Gawd!
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May 20 2009, 07:29 PM
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#15
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![]() New son Donovan Charles Mummert born July 17, 2008 Group: Members Posts: 8,635 Joined: 22-February 06 From: Port Wentworth, GA Member No.: 15 |
I got rid of my Bank of America card. They jacked my interest rate up to almost 30% even though I had never defaulted and my card was nowhere near maxed out. I also pay well above the minimum balance due. Plus, what is weird is I was on a fixed rate with them. I just wanted to stop giving them my money. I didn't even want to opt out. What the final straw for me was when they sent out a letter stating there would be HUGE fees if I purchased anything from a foreign vendor. Like if I were to go online and buy something from the UK, my rate would be retarded. They also jacked up the cash withdrawl rate even more. It was something like almost 40%. I don't know. The letter I got was absolute fraud... it was their way of legally stealing money from people.
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