Cat has the typical greenie mind ... she can't see outside of a wet recycleable paper bag

::slaps forehead:: america was founded by people will little option other than to risk everything by going to an unknown "world." religious percecution, poverty, all of that factors into 1 thing:: a better option that your current circumstances. colonists are what will be needed.. and well off people will be less likely to wantt to risk it.

so, i'll help you out a bit:: it DOES

i think your entire problem is your concept of "humanity" humans are violent, selfish, greedy creatures. in all you years of human existance, how many years have humans had "peace?" we are constantly warring, stealing, taking from each other. that is what we ARE. what we pretend to be is behavior conditioned into us from birth by religion and society. it's "wrong" to kill because we have been told it's wrong. in a world without enforced consequences the truth of humanity comes out. look at every riot and crisis you have seen where the rules have been taken away, and you will see the true face of humanity.

are you an anarchist then?

no, i beleive that rules are very important. without religion or laws, there would be no society. but i don't believe humans are good natured. i view humans as a dangerous animal, and that those laws and religion that we are taught are a leash to keep us from destroying ourselves.

Cathryn and Brandon are both partially right. We are animals and as a result instinctively we are programmed to survive. Life is cruel, unfair, and unjust. Every creature must die in order for another to live. The real question is: how much stock is there in human nature? I believe there is more than Brandon and less than Cathryn is willing to admit. Laws, religion, social norms, and abstract symbols such as compassion community and justice need to be goals. There are plenty of crack addicts with 15 children that probably do not deserve aid and are misusing the system. But as a recipient of food stamps, CHIP, and eventually Medicaid; I can assure you that there are plenty of hard working single parent families out there that depend on these services. But why should you listen to me i'm just commie scum...



AMERICA FUCK YEAH!



Brandon, why is society important?

This post has been edited by The Fanatic: May 2 2008, 01:13 AM

society is about equality. it gives people a chance to live without having to kill or steal from each other. it is an escape from our instincts. it can only realistically be pushed so far though. you can't climb to the moon with a step ladder. i believe cathryn and i's views of the perfect world would be similar, but our methods to get there are opposite. she would want there to be no guns, or cars to cause death or pollution. i would rather hand that person a gun, and be confident he would not use it for evil. she wishes to eliminate the tools, i would rather eliminate the criminal by fixing what would cause him to commit the crime in the first place. but until criminals are fixed, the decent people must protect themselves from the more human-instinct driven members of our society.